India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[Pratyush]

Do we know if the new US administration will help India push LGBTQ rights in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir? A lot of progress was made on this front in J&K and similar progress is wanting in PoK. Couldn't find much on LGBTQ activism in PoK or support for it from USG.

No they will not. They will perform GUBO at the thought of pushing LGBTQ rights in any peaceful country or community.

[vimal]

We are missing something important here. Hindus vote (still mostly for Dems), donate (to both parties) but don't get politically involved anywhere near as much as the Islamists do.

Those people are EVERYWHERE. They start off very small...running for school board member, county comptroller, township public-health official etc. Slowly, and in large numbers they move up to city councils & then state legislatures. All the while they are building up their networks of campaigners, donors, and party influencers.
....

I would add a bit more colour to that.

1. You are underestimating the ability for Abrahamics to self-organize. There is a reason why they have mandated prayer sessions every week where a large number of faithfools meet; exchange notes and build long lasting social and communal bonds.
2. There are over 50 pissfool countries who send thousands of people with green cards every year; now multiply that with decades of immigration. That number is not insignificant and is shaping the demographics of unkil along with the voting pattern. Combine that with point 1.
2. Most pissfools enter unkil at a lower socio-economic level than asian groups and go on the government's teats pretty much as soon as they emigrate. It's easy to control them as a vote block to keep the gravy train flowing and make them vote in blocks. They have a much higher fertility rate and reproduce many times more than average Joe leading to voter consolidation. Look around you and count how many asians have more than 1-2 kids.
3. Active support from their governments. A lot of gelf countries and even our neighbours have very powerful presence in unkil to push their narrative. Monetary and physical support is provided. What exactly does MEA do? When some people raise their voice; they are on their own.
4. The less I say about Bhartiya elected representative the better. They are the worst back stabbers of the entire universe constantly trying to erase their own links and talking to brown folks like Goras. Folks like Ro, Kamalla and Premalla immediately come to mind. The only person who has tried standing up for Hindus is Tulsi; who is not even Indian.

[kit]

Biden would be talking "Kashmir" "religious freedom" and the CIA back to its usual tricks ( read how Su Swamy is reacting ! )

Then why were all American Hindus blindly pro-Biden and voted for Democrats? Were they mentally blind, unable to see which side their bread was buttered? In contrast, no Paki supported Republicans.

Good question; but this answer is best answered looking at the demographics/religion and business interests of these supporters. All is not as nationalistic as you think.

[IndraD]

for most of desi in US what matters is green card/US passport, getting more people in US thru sponsorship. These were made terribly difficult by Trump. Several friends confirmed this. Hearing Biden will remove any sort of cap for Indian immigrants. Also 8 lakh Indians who are waiting for green card will be expedited. As per demo librandus of India that also was due to republicans cos they controlled senate even when Obama was in power.

[nam]

I would actually welcome the threat of sanctions over S400. GoI will stop spending money on foreign weapons for buying friends. Tell Russia, we cannot buy kit becoz of the sanctions. Tell US we will not buy your kit, until you remove the threat of sanctions...

Fund our local programs. S400 coming in 20222 is not going to stop any war. So we might as well get a local kit.

[darshan]

Those people are EVERYWHERE. They start off very small...running for school board member, county comptroller, township public-health official etc. Slowly, and in large numbers they move up to city councils & then state legislatures. All the while they are building up their networks of campaigners, donors, and party influencers.
....

I would add a bit more colour to that.

+1 to both.
I would also not forget roles played by churches and mosques. In contrary, mandirs serve no role on Hindu side.

[chanakyaa]

...I would not be surprised if we get sanctioned for the S400 or any other purchases from Russia.

On this, I echo @sanjaykumar's reply on broad sanctions (defense tech. not sure). Here is why,

There will be no such sanctions. Not because they are not in India’s interest, but because they are not in the US interest.

1. Experience from previous sanctions shows that India did okay (except some defense areas and short term pain) and was probably better off (in the long run). Why would the outcome be any different this time and wouldn't be even more counterproductive?
2. India's economy today is 6x compared to the 1998 economy. If India didn't give a fkuc then, why today? (As the days and years pass, economy grows and tools like sanctions have lower and lower utility.)
3. Most importantly, growing trade/commercial relationship between the two countries provides less incentives for sanctions (e.g. India has allowed companies like Amazon or Flipkart, owned by Walmart to operate in the retail segment by its own bending rules. These companies whom Indians have embraced, have poured billions into India in building infrastructure. Imagine these companies telling Indian consumers, "please go ahead and spend online, and ohh!!, don't worry that our govt. has sanctioned your govt." Don't they know what Indian consumers did to Chinese apps recently?).
4. And, finally, fortunately the person running the country is not chacha neheroo or maun mohan sing.

The threat of sanction, from the view point of country applying sanctions can backfire too. For example, what if the GoI were to play little offensive/defense and pass a generic law and signed by the president that covers the following (without naming any country)? It is possible that it gets cross party support.

• If any country sanctions GoI or any of its govt. entities, ALL agreements/contracts/MoUs made by that county (or its privately held companies) with GoI or its entities and Indian companies ARE AUTOMATICALLY NULL and VOID, unless reinstated selectively at parliament's discretion.
• If any private company sanctions GoI or any of its govt. entities, ALL agreements/contracts made by that company with GoI or its entities and Indian companies ARE NULL and VOID, unless reinstated selectively at parliament's discretion.

[vimal]

for most of desi in US what matters is green card/US passport, getting more people in US thru sponsorship. These were made terribly difficult by Trump. Several friends confirmed this. Hearing Biden will remove any sort of cap for Indian immigrants. Also 8 lakh Indians who are waiting for green card will be expedited. As per demo librandus of India that also was due to republicans cos they controlled senate even when Obama was in power.

Couple of points:

1. Green cards/Citizenship for Indians stuck in backlog is a good thing. It allows them to participate in the political process and shape the narrative.
2. Biden has not openly made any such promises for legal immigrants apart from some language in his election manifesto. Kamala mami has openly supported the cause of 11 million illegal ones multiple times. So it’s likely that they will get citizenship before the legal ones.
3. As usual our Indian worthies are silent when it comes to Indian interests.

See: https://www.newsweek.com/biden-immigrat ... 2137?amp=1

[Najunamar]

One more change from 1998 is US State Dept itself is not filled with same old guard, while this may be less evident in the top levels, there will potentially be a lower level of hubris when the desks are dealing with a multi-trillion $ economy. In the end, recency bias dictates reactions even for nations. So the way any sanctions are implemented also could result in a muted impact if any.

[ragupta]

• If any country sanctions GoI or any of its govt. entities, ALL agreements/contracts/MoUs made by that county (or its privately held companies) with GoI or its entities and Indian companies ARE AUTOMATICALLY NULL and VOID, unless reinstated selectively at parliament's discretion.
• If any private company sanctions GoI or any of its govt. entities, ALL agreements/contracts made by that company with GoI or its entities and Indian companies ARE NULL and VOID, unless reinstated selectively at parliament's discretion.

[/quote]

+100 like this idea.

[IndraD]

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... umentation
Biden govt to prioritise status of 11 million illegal immigrants in US, though it will not include legal Indians

[KL Dubey]

From Indian perspective, US granting green cards to large numbers of Indians is not in our interest. India is already suffering a massive brain drain due to emigration of the best and brightest. One could justify that back in the last millennium by saying those opportunities just weren't there in India. But can't keep doing that in future. We need to keep our high skilled people back in India and put them to use. Of course there will be always a population of high achievers who need to be able to access real opportunities in the US.

What we should care about is that the H1B visas keep going smoothly. This benefits our companies. People work in US for 3-6 years, gain new experience, and go back home.

[vimal]

^^ How will that help Indian Americans create long term foothold and leverage in the US society? What you are suggesting is the worst of both world. Visas are fickle and will keep going up and down based on the current admin and visa holders have zero say on the policy making.

[TKiran]

Its in the interest of India that we have a large diaspora of India in USA.

And that too very efficient highly knowledgeable and wealthy.

Anyone thinking otherwise don't know what leverage we get for this. It's not obvious what benefits accrue.... but they accrue over a period of 15-20 years, sometimes it takrs even more time. Most importantly political activism is important.

[mappunni]

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... umentation
Biden govt to prioritise status of 11 million illegal immigrants in US, though it will not include legal Indians

All the talk of removing per country quota was just for the consumption of the Indian vote bank. The Democrats are more interested in the 11 million future Democratic voters and not the pittance 700k voters who may go either way. The first 800k, million DACA converted first to Citizenship before the next election to the house in 2 years.

Mark my words after losing the majority in the house the Democrats will come up with a lame excuse, by then the 800k would have either ballooned to a million with many oldies leaving the US for good disappointed after a long wait.

[Najunamar]

Mappunniji, if Dems add 1M to their supporters (DACA) by 2022 mid-terms wouldn't they likely retain house majority? Unless there's a bigger shift in the older richer segment from Dem to Rep side- which I think is all predicated on economic factors, recovery in the next 2 years.

[vimal]

^^I think this topic should be discussed in the understanding US thread. It’s got little to do with India.

[Y. Kanan]

I would actually welcome the threat of sanctions over S400. GoI will stop spending money on foreign weapons for buying friends. Tell Russia, we cannot buy kit becoz of the sanctions. Tell US we will not buy your kit, until you remove the threat of sanctions...

Fund our local programs. S400 coming in 20222 is not going to stop any war. So we might as well get a local kit.

Agreed. S400 was a foolish purchase in the first place; the system has no track record. It performed poorly in the Armenia-Azerbaijan war and the Russians didn't even want to risk using it in Syria as they probably suspected the results would have been disappointing. Russia wisely avoided the potential embarrassment in Syria, but could do nothing but watch helplessly as the Azerbaijanis took them out with ease in Armenia.

It's a big, expensive, legacy SAM system that's so overly centralized that it's very easy to take out with drones and stealth. I wish this were not so, as I like the Russians and root for their efforts to foil US meddling in the ME, but one has to acknowledge reality: Systems like the S400 are NOT the future of air defense. We're better off using our expertise in software and AI to build our own air defense.

Sorry this is OT for this thread. I won't comment on it further.

[Najunamar]

https://www.indiawest.com/news/global_i ... 18181.html
How long will this dispensation last is anyone's guess- some folks are thinking that while Biden regime may not take such bold steps as revamping along these lines they may be happy to play along - if that's the case it may be a net positive for H1B numbers from India.

[Rudradev]

I would add a bit more colour to that.

1. You are underestimating the ability for Abrahamics to self-organize. There is a reason why they have mandated prayer sessions every week where a large number of faithfools meet; exchange notes and build long lasting social and communal bonds.
2. There are over 50 pissfool countries who send thousands of people with green cards every year; now multiply that with decades of immigration. That number is not insignificant and is shaping the demographics of unkil along with the voting pattern. Combine that with point 1.
2. Most pissfools enter unkil at a lower socio-economic level than asian groups and go on the government's teats pretty much as soon as they emigrate. It's easy to control them as a vote block to keep the gravy train flowing and make them vote in blocks. They have a much higher fertility rate and reproduce many times more than average Joe leading to voter consolidation. Look around you and count how many asians have more than 1-2 kids.
3. Active support from their governments. A lot of gelf countries and even our neighbours have very powerful presence in unkil to push their narrative. Monetary and physical support is provided. What exactly does MEA do? When some people raise their voice; they are on their own.
4. The less I say about Bhartiya elected representative the better. They are the worst back stabbers of the entire universe constantly trying to erase their own links and talking to brown folks like Goras. Folks like Ro, Kamalla and Premalla immediately come to mind. The only person who has tried standing up for Hindus is Tulsi; who is not even Indian.

Your points are valid to some extent but even they oversimplify the case.

The point of Islamists running candidates for low-level, grass-roots posts is precisely so that they do NOT have to rely solely on fellow Pissfools as a votebank.

Unlike in the UK for example, 99.9% of US districts do not have a sufficient number or concentration of Pissfools to elect someone to office by themselves (the Michigan and Minnesota districts where huge immigrant populations have managed to send Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar to US Congress are very much the exception-- not the rule).

So things like mosque sermons and gelf money don't play the kind of role here that they do in Europe, useful as they are. Likewise, the significant demographic shift created by having large numbers of children has not happened in the US yet.

Instead, where the Islamists have been wise-- and the Hindoos could be wiser-- has been in running for low-level positions. In the process of running for school-board member or county comptroller, you get to do a lot of the groundwork needed to progress further, and also to inject sympathy for your views into the party mainstream.

As they run for these sorts of elections, Islamists make friends with, trade favours with, build up networks of obligation and patronage with huge numbers of politically engaged people in the local (usually Democratic) party organizations. They come out of their Pissfool communities and engage with the mainstream communities of their neighbours-- mostly White, suburban liberals-- who in turn get used to having these Islamists becoming standard, recognizable features of the local political landscape.

This has a (pardon the pun) whitewashing effect where the white mainstream Americans they interact with become inured to their Islamist views or Muslim identity: "heck, Javed is just a regular guy! No way he's a jihadi terrorist!" Even though the same Javed might be sending hundreds of dollars to Lashkar-e-Taiba every month.

It also makes the white liberals MUCH more receptive to the victimhood sob-stories their new Islamist buddies feed them at election-watch parties, campaign celebratory events, backyard barbeques and what not. White Americans have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world, but they LOVE to feel like generous, empathetic saviours.

Every chance Javed (or Uzra, or whoever) gets-- he/she will be telling tearful stories to their gora party compatriots regarding Nazi BJP, Hitler Modi, Genocide in Cashmere etc. And since the party compatriots already enjoy a sense of camaraderie with these Islamists, and also see the same views rehashed endlessly in the mainstream US media, such Islamist propaganda points end up becoming accepted as reality among a huge swath of the American public. They're no longer just the stuff of news items broadcast on websites or TV, but "personal accounts" narrated by their friends (or friends-of-friends) who actually lived and suffered in Nazi BJP India. What could be more convincing than that?

And when the very same gora Americans get elected to City Councils, they end up passing resolutions against CAA or the Article 370 repeal. After all Javed told them that these are fascist activities, and Javed is a good guy.

It's a brilliant campaign of micro-persuasions to spread influence in and across local networks-- when repeated on a large scale, they produce a politically significant net effect over time, and we can already see the results. Kashmiri Islamists occupy positions in the Biden administration while Amit Jani is sidelined just because his family had some connection to Modi. The Democratic platform has a section for Muslim Americans, including plans to punish India for CAA and Article 370, but Hindu Americans might as well not exist.

Hindus are nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE in this game. The only Hindus who do what the Islamists do-- engage actively with the wider American communities they live in, are almost invariably deracinated Hindus who either stay silent or join in the Modi-bashing. As for the rest of us-- all we can do is post clever Tweets like "so what if Seattle Council condemned CAA, my colony in Nagpur also passed a resolution about George Floyd and police brutality in the US, ha ha".

We simply have no concept of what the long game is, let alone how to play it.

[dsreedhar]

Well explained in detail Rudradev. It would be surprising if folks at BRF who i consider very well informed and ahead of the curve have not figured this out and not able to see it through.
While hindus mostly focus in areas of science, tech and finance fields, muslims focus on social n political opinion and policy making areas/jobs. Its anybody's guess who will have the edge and control.

[KJo]

^^ How will that help Indian Americans create long term foothold and leverage in the US society? What you are suggesting is the worst of both world. Visas are fickle and will keep going up and down based on the current admin and visa holders have zero say on the policy making.

My kid is in high school and the desis in my community are of the same age group as me whose kids are already in college or going to. While their parents gen was all engineers or doctors, I see the current college generation of Indian kids also doing political science and public policy and such things. Gradually there will be a shift of Hindus to the corridors of power. The current issue is only the slaves like Piyush are getting any leverage, but I think this will change in the coming years.

[vijayk]

^^ How will that help Indian Americans create long term foothold and leverage in the US society? What you are suggesting is the worst of both world. Visas are fickle and will keep going up and down based on the current admin and visa holders have zero say on the policy making.

My kid is in high school and the desis in my community are of the same age group as me whose kids are already in college or going to. While their parents gen was all engineers or doctors, I see the current college generation of Indian kids also doing political science and public policy and such things. Gradually there will be a shift of Hindus to the corridors of power. The current issue is only the slaves like Piyush are getting any leverage, but I think this will change in the coming years.

all these kids are being groomed as anti-Indian, anti-Hindu, pro-jihadis, pro-khalistani ... They will be useless

[kit]

I would actually welcome the threat of sanctions over S400.
Agreed. S400 was a foolish purchase in the first place; the system has no track recordr.

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/ ... -effective

[ShyamSP]

My kid is in high school and the desis in my community are of the same age group as me whose kids are already in college or going to. While their parents gen was all engineers or doctors, I see the current college generation of Indian kids also doing political science and public policy and such things. Gradually there will be a shift of Hindus to the corridors of power. The current issue is only the slaves like Piyush are getting any leverage, but I think this will change in the coming years.

all these kids are being groomed as anti-Indian, anti-Hindu, pro-jihadis, pro-khalistani ... They will be useless

Yes. In California when state bill says to study ethnic studies, the curriculum is designed as Critical ethnic studies, in the mode of Marxist studies. Some are fighting https://www.calethstudies.org/about. But I'm afraid non-STEM kids that come out in these schools may not be of good caliber brains without parental intervention.

[vimal]

^^ How will that help Indian Americans create long term foothold and leverage in the US society? What you are suggesting is the worst of both world. Visas are fickle and will keep going up and down based on the current admin and visa holders have zero say on the policy making.

My kid is in high school and the desis in my community are of the same age group as me whose kids are already in college or going to. While their parents gen was all engineers or doctors, I see the current college generation of Indian kids also doing political science and public policy and such things. Gradually there will be a shift of Hindus to the corridors of power. The current issue is only the slaves like Piyush are getting any leverage, but I think this will change in the coming years.

I hope you are right. However, my limited interactions with ABCD kids shows a deep lack of understanding of these kids w.r.t to India and it's Sanatan roots and history. Recently overheard bunch of ABCD kids talk about how their parents are deeply secular and now disapprove of Modi because of his role in CAA and 370. It's not their fault; even their parents who came to unkil in 70s/80s were taught the same Marxist trash that gets taught to kids even now. SM has exposed a lot of these untruths to some extent but for older folks, these untruths are truths and they are not tech savvy enough to revisit at their age. With the Netflix/Prime launching a virtual jihad against Hindus its only going to get worse from here, unless people stand up to the cultural approproation.

[Punjabi]

My kid is in high school and the desis in my community are of the same age group as me whose kids are already in college or going to. While their parents gen was all engineers or doctors, I see the current college generation of Indian kids also doing political science and public policy and such things. Gradually there will be a shift of Hindus to the corridors of power. The current issue is only the slaves like Piyush are getting any leverage, but I think this will change in the coming years.

I hope you are right. However, my limited interactions with ABCD kids shows a deep lack of understanding of these kids w.r.t to India and it's Sanatan roots and history. Recently on a hiking trip I overheard bunch of ABCDs talk about how their parents are deeply secular and now disapprove of Modi because of his role in CAA and 370. It's not their fault; even their parents who came to unkil in 70s/80s were taught the same Marxist trash that gets taught to kids even now. SM has exposed a lot of these untruths to some extent but for older folks, these untruths are truths and they are not tech savvy enough to revisit at their age. With the Netflix/Prime launching a virtual jihad against Hindus its only going to get worse from here, unless people stand up to the cultural approproation.

Hate to tell you this...majority of ABCD kids I know of, hate NaMo/BJP, are far left, believe minorities are treated badly in India. Largely, they don't give a damn...sad...I often get into fights with my own kids on this topic... they think I am right wing nut case...

[Najunamar]

Yes, the majority of ABCD kids have been misled, but some are still holding strong. I see many who have not only taken upon themselves to research some of the history but are also trying to educate others (HUA, Chinmaya etc.). Not all will be dhimmified hopefully and a sizable number may uphold dharmic values.

[Y. Kanan]

Its in the interest of India that we have a large diaspora of India in USA.

And that too very efficient highly knowledgeable and wealthy.

Anyone thinking otherwise don't know what leverage we get for this. It's not obvious what benefits accrue.... but they accrue over a period of 15-20 years, sometimes it takrs even more time. Most importantly political activism is important.

Is it still in our interests when most of that diaspora is at best apathetic about their home country? And more importantly, what about their kids? Indians growing up in the USA almost universally despite the BJP, Modi, etc. They all vote Democrat of course.

Other than remittances from the first-gen immigrants, what has the Indian diaspora ever done to further India's interests? I remind you, we are not muslims. We are not Jews. It's just not in our DNA to organize the way they do. Hindus have never been like this.

[vimal]

@Y Kannan, times have changed, so should we. But I would not blame the ABCDs or their parents. What has India done to fix the narrative that is perpetuated by Islamo-Marxists daily within it's own border.

[venkat_kv]

@RudraDev Saar,
what ever you have written is quite correct. but there is another aspect to this as well. Most of the desi crowd coming to the US come for a better life where they want to work and earn their keep. so most of the focus is to get ahead and make a good living. subsequently that same is instilled in kids to work hard and get into good colleges and have a better life (most of it is measured in terms of luxuries you can afford or the designation you might earn).
Contrast this to the peace fulls who are always dealing with victimhood and that everyone else owes them reparations for their perceived shortcomings. They wouldn't mind getting on welfare or use any means to get ahead. Supporting one of their own will come easy (kind of caste leaders we still see in Inida or state leaders where people of that caste or state repose faith in that individual to look after their interests no matter how crooked or incompatant the candidate is). The thought process between the two communities is different in most cases.

the way this can change is when there is professional satisfaction but no spiritual satisfaction among the dharmic folks that might cause them to take an active interest in organizing and getting their point across. afterall the other side often justifies their entire actions for their "quam" isn't it?

[KL Dubey]

^^ How will that help Indian Americans create long term foothold and leverage in the US society? What you are suggesting is the worst of both world. Visas are fickle and will keep going up and down based on the current admin and visa holders have zero say on the policy making.

You fellas talk as though there are no Indians in the USA. Aren't 100K Indians immigrating (this is different from temporary visas) to the USA every year? The Indian immigrant population growth in USA is massively higher than the general population...of course there is a low base effect but that is not all.

Again, from an Indian perspective there is no incentive to send a lot more people over, especially well-qualified professionals/engineers/scientists etc (that doesn't include temporary IT workers on H1B).

The idea of the Indian diaspora in the USA promoting Indian interests/India-US relations is theoretically great, but it has not happened. There are two problems.

#1: Even with all the Indians who have immigrated to the USA so far, the returns for India have been absolutely piss-poor apart from a trickle of remittance funds (and I'm not sure how much of that is from immigrants versus temporary workers). Maybe we find an occasional Rajiv Malhotra or Shalabh Kumar, but all I see are Jindals, Jayapals, Khannas, Randhawas, Harrises, and various other clowns who will not even like to speak a sentence in Hindi (or other Indian language) when they meet another Indian. The Indian American crowd has not achieved cohesion and purposeful sense of identity, you are too busy trying to "fit in". You keep voting for anti-India forces. On this same forum you have people posting lists of "highly qualified Indian-Americans in Bhaidenwa's administration" as if we should be highly proud, when most of these people have no love for or interest in India. Directionless and generally useless community as far as Indian interests are concerned. You need to get your act together. What can brown do for India?

#2: On the Indian side, there is no outbound immigration policy beyond holding "Pravasi Bharatiya" conferences. We are already providing more than enough facilities for diaspora (OCI included). It's time to put in place controls and expectations. We need to use our immigrants as a tool for national interest. This should include outbound visa controls. We are doing a reasonable job of lobbying on the non-immigrant side of things, specifically H1B visas for the IT sector. This is providing some returns in $$. But we need to establish controls/return conditions on F-1, J-1, and other visas. Visas and immigration must be quota-ed based on domestic workforce needs. We cannot continue this wholesale drain of people whom we have educated for 25 years, without expecting specific returns. We need to put these people to work in India.

[KL Dubey]

Is it still in our interests when most of that diaspora is at best apathetic about their home country? And more importantly, what about their kids? Indians growing up in the USA almost universally despite the BJP, Modi, etc. They all vote Democrat of course.

Other than remittances from the first-gen immigrants, what has the Indian diaspora ever done to further India's interests? I remind you, we are not muslims. We are not Jews. It's just not in our DNA to organize the way they do. Hindus have never been like this.

You hit nail on the head. I provided some more taps above.

[Najunamar]

Why this rona-dhona? While we may have not been as vocal as BRFites would like, there's still a huge chunk of population doing their best to stay connected. I see a big response to Samskrita Bharathi and other assorted language/arts learning from the diaspora - yes, more can and should be done but everything starts from humble beginnings like Cleveland Thyagaraja Araadhana.

[KL Dubey]

This is an objective discussion, not "rona-dhona".

[KL Dubey]

I see a big response to Samskrita Bharathi and other assorted language/arts learning from the diaspora - yes, more can and should be done but everything starts from humble beginnings like Cleveland Thyagaraja Araadhana.

Instead of hoping for the "indian diaspora" to promote India-US relations, I have always thought the best course of action is to send more Hindu priests and missionaries to convert the locals to Hinduism of any variety. If anything, seeing some prominent goras convert to Hindooism will make these Indian-Americans start taking more interest since there is now a "gora stamp of approval". Again, the Indian-American community has done a very poor job of engaging and co-opting the local communities, forget about promoting India-US relations. They are still trying to "fit in" and have a good time doing it.

[Kaivalya]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/20/politics ... index.html

I think this highlights the fight for

1. National Identity
2. Parties jostling for political space
3. Differences in right wing in the US and India
4. Untreated wounds that need closure
5. Setting the tone for the duration in power
6 the sense of urgency that needs to be brought to the table

[Rony]

I see a big response to Samskrita Bharathi and other assorted language/arts learning from the diaspora - yes, more can and should be done but everything starts from humble beginnings like Cleveland Thyagaraja Araadhana.

Instead of hoping for the "indian diaspora" to promote India-US relations, I have always thought the best course of action is to send more Hindu priests and missionaries to convert the locals to Hinduism of any variety. If anything, seeing some prominent goras convert to Hindooism will make these Indian-Americans start taking more interest since there is now a "gora stamp of approval". Again, the Indian-American community has done a very poor job of engaging and co-opting the local communities, forget about promoting India-US relations. They are still trying to "fit in" and have a good time doing it.

+ 1

Hindu converts have more positive view of India and Hinduism than these entitled leftist deracinated Indian Hindu-Americans. See Tulsi Gabbard. This does not mean all Indian Hindu-Americans are like these deracinated leftists but because of education and US mainstream culture and their own inferiority complex, many Indian Hindu-Americans (and certainly most of them in my relatives, friends circle) are like this only.

[Cyrano]

Congratulations to President Joe R Biden and Vice President Kamala D Harris !

I remain optimistic about the future of India-US relations under this new administration. Compared to the last time Dems were in power, India's stature and grown, and we have governance continuity that will help sustain and further several axes of collaboration over the next four years.

The large number of Indian origin experts and administrators in the new GOTUS I hope and believe will do more good to this relationship than previous regimes.

India can and must engage, engage strongly, proactively with Biden administration instead of adopting a reactive approach.

[Cyrano]

Mods: May be time to start this thread anew ?!