Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
I will stop after this as it is going OT.
From today’s PM’s speech
"One of the reasons for the success of the campaign was the trust that people developed in the vaccine and the process followed, despite various efforts to create mistrust and panic," he added.
"There are some among us who only trust foreign brands, even for simple everyday necessities. However, when it came to something as crucial as the COVID-19 vaccine, the people of India unanimously trusted 'Made in India'' vaccines. This is a significant paradigm shift," he said.
From today’s PM’s speech
"One of the reasons for the success of the campaign was the trust that people developed in the vaccine and the process followed, despite various efforts to create mistrust and panic," he added.
"There are some among us who only trust foreign brands, even for simple everyday necessities. However, when it came to something as crucial as the COVID-19 vaccine, the people of India unanimously trusted 'Made in India'' vaccines. This is a significant paradigm shift," he said.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
https://twitter.com/dpkpillay12/status/ ... 47785?s=20
Finally, we are seeing the barrel failures. They all are due to the shell exploding inside the barrel. The fuze is supposed to actuate after a set distance. See the tank round splitting the barrel in ductile fracture. The rest are a brittle failure. And shell has traveled a distance.
Finally, we are seeing the barrel failures. They all are due to the shell exploding inside the barrel. The fuze is supposed to actuate after a set distance. See the tank round splitting the barrel in ductile fracture. The rest are a brittle failure. And shell has traveled a distance.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
^ Great article. Also
wow.The case study of a rival firm Czech firearms company Ceska Zbrojovka Group (CZG) buying out the legendary Colt, which has been manufacturing firearms since the early 19th century, for $220 million has evaded our mandarins even though our own purchase order was larger than this buyout.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
It maybe possible to get some extra range on Indo Tibet border. Yet it doesn't mean that the accuracy will be good enough for use against military targets. Strong winds, temperature gradients and other factors strongly influence the trajectory and any such gain in range are ok only of they are shelling a city.
They boast that imported guns have this extra range. Don't Indian guns have the same too?
Additionally, a bulk of Chinese tube and rocket artillery is smaller 122 mm which is quite mobile. They even have self propelled mortars for close support to infantry. We don't have anything similar.
They boast that imported guns have this extra range. Don't Indian guns have the same too?
Additionally, a bulk of Chinese tube and rocket artillery is smaller 122 mm which is quite mobile. They even have self propelled mortars for close support to infantry. We don't have anything similar.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
That's only a problem if you don't have a correcting fuse, guidance kit or a precision round that can get both range and accuracy. Without addressing accuracy, the extended range shots from larger caliber guns will also not be very useful in such terrain or where you don't have very high density or large concentrated enemy deployments. But high accuracy at range is a problem that is now well solved particularly in the 40-50 km range (60-70 is still a work in progress).jamwal wrote:It maybe possible to get some extra range on Indo Tibet border. Yet it doesn't mean that the accuracy will be good enough for use against military targets. Strong winds, temperature gradients and other factors strongly influence the trajectory and any such gain in range are ok only of they are shelling a city.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
40 km range with ERFB-BB shells is old news when shot from 45 calibre guns.
This was achieved in the 80s it self by South Africans and others using Gerald Bull and his expertise.
PRC was also a recipient of his expertise during the 80s through South Africans and more mercantile Europeans.
WRT, Indian's justification for imports for range. I see this as yet another symptom of malaise in the Indian armed forces leadership.
That they have totally missed the development of Bharat Forge purchasing Austrian plant and TATA group's alliances with the South African gun makers. Or Punj Lloyd buying a the Dutch gun makers for the tech.
But to be expected from the people who have not even allowed their own gun ranges to be used for testing purposes by Indian Pvt sector companies.
PS: ATAGS is also based on South Africans research. BUT IT'S TOO HEAVY.
This was achieved in the 80s it self by South Africans and others using Gerald Bull and his expertise.
PRC was also a recipient of his expertise during the 80s through South Africans and more mercantile Europeans.
WRT, Indian's justification for imports for range. I see this as yet another symptom of malaise in the Indian armed forces leadership.
That they have totally missed the development of Bharat Forge purchasing Austrian plant and TATA group's alliances with the South African gun makers. Or Punj Lloyd buying a the Dutch gun makers for the tech.
But to be expected from the people who have not even allowed their own gun ranges to be used for testing purposes by Indian Pvt sector companies.
PS: ATAGS is also based on South Africans research. BUT IT'S TOO HEAVY.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Pratyush wrote:4
But to be expected from the people who have not even allowed their own gun ranges to be used for testing purposes by Indian Pvt sector companies.
Unfortunately that was a decision by the MoD. AHQ needs clearance to allow anything like this.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Did they ask for permission?
Or were they happy about the latest gun to be imported by India.
Or were they happy about the latest gun to be imported by India.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
From what I recollect AHQ was okay with it but MoD shot it.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Thinking about the MODs refusal to permit testing of domestic guns by the army I am quite perplexed.
If the MOD doesn't have to face and costs and is not required to commit to purchasing the gun's in the absence of any program of record.
Then what is the issue with the testing of the gun's?
If the MOD doesn't have to face and costs and is not required to commit to purchasing the gun's in the absence of any program of record.
Then what is the issue with the testing of the gun's?
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
MoD is a competitor to any private producer via its ownership of the OFB. How is that conflict of interest resolved?
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
It's all on L1 basis now. Only in rare cases is nomination followed. Pechora upgrade was won by ADTL against DPSUs as former was L1.
Also, MOD test facilities are now available to the pvt sector. So this issue is no longer relevant. GOI has fixed it.
https://www.makeinindiadefence.gov.in/p ... ate-sector
Also, MOD test facilities are now available to the pvt sector. So this issue is no longer relevant. GOI has fixed it.
https://www.makeinindiadefence.gov.in/p ... ate-sector
In order to facilitate the Indian private industry for testing/ trials, proof firing or field firing of their products, Government has offered the test facilities/ proof ranges/ Field firing ranges available with OFB, DPSUs, DGQA, DGAQA, DRDO,SHQ(Army), SHQ(Navy), SHQ(Air Force) to private industry. The guidelines for Test Facilities offered by the Government issued on 28th Aug 2019 can be downloaded here.
An Standard Operating Procedure (SoP) for allotment and utilisation of proof and field firing ranges can be downloaded here.
Nodal officers have been designated to assist the industry in this regard.
List of Test Facilities offered by each Government entity is available at their respective websites.Please click on the relevant link to know more about the facilities being offered
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Well 2019 is a day late and a dollar short.
We are 5 years behind where we should have been in terms of artillery capacity at the minimum. The Dhanush procurement process should have been completed.
But OFB zindabad.
Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan.
But in our case, defeat will have a thousand fathers.
Because we keep on blowing hand grenades at our own heads. It's a wonder how we have survived this long.
We are 5 years behind where we should have been in terms of artillery capacity at the minimum. The Dhanush procurement process should have been completed.
But OFB zindabad.
Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan.
But in our case, defeat will have a thousand fathers.
Because we keep on blowing hand grenades at our own heads. It's a wonder how we have survived this long.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
How about you made your point and its been addressed. So lets not beat a dead cobra.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 96176?s=20 ---> So finally confirmation that both Smerch and Pinaka MLRS deployed in Tawang.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
In terms of accuracy, we have PGK type kit in developed under the TDF project. In the meantime, we could actually get some PGK kit and see how it performs on ATAGS.
We anyways have M777 and we know it will work with it. PGK is meant to mass, so it would more preferable to use it with ATAGS, Dhanush, Sarang etc.
But sigh, only god knows when we will get the numbers.
We anyways have M777 and we know it will work with it. PGK is meant to mass, so it would more preferable to use it with ATAGS, Dhanush, Sarang etc.
But sigh, only god knows when we will get the numbers.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
The IA already purchased the more capable and more expensive Excalibur so I suspect they could also have purchased some PGK kits as well under the emergency authorization. Some of the medium or long range artillery ranges being spoken of here require some sort of course correction otherwise miss distances will be large which is not ideal in mountains or some of the other use cases (like destroying fortifications, bunkers etc)nam wrote:In terms of accuracy, we have PGK type kit in developed under the TDF project. In the meantime, we could actually get some PGK kit and see how it performs on ATAGS.
We anyways have M777 and we know it will work with it. PGK is meant to mass, so it would more preferable to use it with ATAGS, Dhanush, Sarang etc.
But sigh, only god knows when we will get the numbers.
Last edited by brar_w on 23 Oct 2021 05:00, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
The South Koreans are the best on impact videos. This video tells you why artillery is and will be the God of war. Look at the coverage area.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Nam, You are right. India has a PGK fuze being produced under the TDF program.
Also a laser guided kit for shells under TGM.
So things will only get better.
Also a laser guided kit for shells under TGM.
So things will only get better.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
ks_sachin wrote:From what I recollect AHQ was okay with it but MoD shot it.
maybe they know best about bread and butter, the babooze usually have a very keen eye on such "technical" matters
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
From the reports, it looks like Pinaka-1, not the ER Mk-1 or Mk-2 or Guided Pinaka.Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 96176?s=20 ---> So finally confirmation that both Smerch and Pinaka MLRS deployed in Tawang.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
This is the report everyone is referencing.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/14514289 ... UOY2A&s=19
And Brahmos mentioned too.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 2.ece/amp/
This level of transparency is clearly an open signal to China to back off. This is not IMHO just an all is well sort of display. We seem to be signaling our preparedness openly.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/14514289 ... UOY2A&s=19
And Brahmos mentioned too.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 2.ece/amp/
This level of transparency is clearly an open signal to China to back off. This is not IMHO just an all is well sort of display. We seem to be signaling our preparedness openly.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Fire missions with the M777 need to be short - can’t do the conventional number of rounds due to logistics and wear and tear issues as well as your point that in mountains, especially on slopes, a miss by 10 meters is a miss. That system needs precision rounds like the Excalibur.brar_w wrote:
The IA already purchased the more capable and more expensive Excalibur so I suspect they could also have purchased some PGK kits as well under the emergency authorization. Some of the medium or long range artillery ranges being spoken of here require some sort of course correction otherwise miss distances will be large which is not ideal in mountains or some of the other use cases (like destroying fortifications, bunkers etc)
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePa ... ID=1759416
A few days ago it was reported that the army was procuring 33000 + Terminally Guided Munitions from a domestic source.
This coupled with the Excalibur will give a potent precision strike capacity to the Indian artillery.
A few days ago it was reported that the army was procuring 33000 + Terminally Guided Munitions from a domestic source.
This coupled with the Excalibur will give a potent precision strike capacity to the Indian artillery.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Is there any indigenous terminally guided munition for artillery?
For Pinaka, yes. I am unaware for shells.
For Pinaka, yes. I am unaware for shells.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
The development program for such kits was initiated 6-7 years ago.
Given Indian capabilities, in design and fabrication, it should have reached fruition by now.
The RFQ was issued in 2014.
https://indianarmy.nic.in/MakeInIndia/w ... 080814.pdf
Given Indian capabilities, in design and fabrication, it should have reached fruition by now.
The RFQ was issued in 2014.
https://indianarmy.nic.in/MakeInIndia/w ... 080814.pdf
Last edited by Pratyush on 23 Oct 2021 13:14, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Looking at the images of the shattered gun barrels.
As someone with a non engeneering background. I have a question regarding the testing of the metallurgy and strength of different materials.
In oil and natural gas industry or even for municipal applications it is required that the pipes be fit to handle certain amount of flow and pressure on a daily basis for a certain period of time. Before it reaches a point of failure and needs to be replaced.
1) How is this quality assured for customers?
2) Is it possible for non invasive means such as x-rays or ultrasound be used to check for flaws in materials?
3) Can such techniques be used to assure the quality of the arty gun barrels as well?
As someone with a non engeneering background. I have a question regarding the testing of the metallurgy and strength of different materials.
In oil and natural gas industry or even for municipal applications it is required that the pipes be fit to handle certain amount of flow and pressure on a daily basis for a certain period of time. Before it reaches a point of failure and needs to be replaced.
1) How is this quality assured for customers?
2) Is it possible for non invasive means such as x-rays or ultrasound be used to check for flaws in materials?
3) Can such techniques be used to assure the quality of the arty gun barrels as well?
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... n/2354963/
Modernisation of the Army’s Artillery – issues remain
October 22, 2021 5:40 PM
By Lt Gen Anil Ahuja,
Modernisation of the Army’s Artillery – issues remain
October 22, 2021 5:40 PM
By Lt Gen Anil Ahuja,
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Our artillery modernization is the biggest paradox for the pat 3 decades.
Previously import was the only solution and the relevant making schemes blocking the deals.
Now there is overwhelming local options
Mahindra: M777
L&T: K9
BF: ATAGS, Bharat52, ULWH, truck mounted 105, 155 you name it
OFB: Dhanush/Bofors
Does any country has so many artillery type being built locally?
Yet Artillery is not happy and is looking at Athos with plans to let OFB build it, who could not produce Dhanush! It is as if Artillery doesn't want to progress themselves
And there is a tiny winy problem of a 16T GDP nation's army mobilized on our border for a conflict! Surreal..
Previously import was the only solution and the relevant making schemes blocking the deals.
Now there is overwhelming local options
Mahindra: M777
L&T: K9
BF: ATAGS, Bharat52, ULWH, truck mounted 105, 155 you name it
OFB: Dhanush/Bofors
Does any country has so many artillery type being built locally?
Yet Artillery is not happy and is looking at Athos with plans to let OFB build it, who could not produce Dhanush! It is as if Artillery doesn't want to progress themselves
And there is a tiny winy problem of a 16T GDP nation's army mobilized on our border for a conflict! Surreal..
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
I am confused.. do we love ofb or hate ofb ?nam wrote:Our artillery modernization is the biggest paradox for the pat 3 decades.
Previously import was the only solution and the relevant making schemes blocking the deals.
Now there is overwhelming local options
Mahindra: M777
L&T: K9
BF: ATAGS, Bharat52, ULWH, truck mounted 105, 155 you name it
OFB: Dhanush/Bofors
Does any country has so many artillery type being built locally?
Yet Artillery is not happy and is looking at Athos with plans to let OFB build it, who could not produce Dhanush! It is as if Artillery doesn't want to progress themselves
And there is a tiny winy problem of a 16T GDP nation's army mobilized on our border for a conflict! Surreal..
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
show baazi onree assembling 12 guns just 2 meters apart is recipe for disaster just 2 shells air bursting at 10 meter hieght and that battery kaputnam wrote:The South Koreans are the best on impact videos. This video tells you why artillery is and will be the God of war. Look at the coverage area.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Fire and scoot.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
almost confirm it is the shell lack of QA QC not the gun faultramana wrote:https://twitter.com/dpkpillay12/status/ ... 47785?s=20
Finally, we are seeing the barrel failures. They all are due to the shell exploding inside the barrel. The fuze is supposed to actuate after a set distance. See the tank round splitting the barrel in ductile fracture. The rest are a brittle failure. And shell has traveled a distance.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
saar there is a reason minimum distance between two guns must be 25 meters and it should be haphazardly placed not lined up into neat circle line triangle wagera wagera you never know you are spotted till enemy shell scream down on you then it would be too latesankum wrote:Fire and scoot.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
WRT locally produced arty shell guidance yes we have been producing since 2019 currently IA has guidance kit even for mortar rounds. without guidance ATAGS would have been still born, as for why no purchase arrdaar? rest assured situation iz ander kantrol.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Of Excalibur’s caliber? Like off axis flight?
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Are you taking about precession guidance kit or course correction Fuzeniran wrote:WRT locally produced arty shell guidance yes we have been producing since 2019 currently IA has guidance kit even for mortar rounds. without guidance ATAGS would have been still born, as for why no purchase arrdaar? rest assured situation iz ander kantrol.
Folks here can enlighten, how the coordinates are feeded to this shells . Firing I guess is done in the general direction with elevation for maximum range and this shells with some brake mechanism guided to the target during terminal phase.
Added later
For Non Satellite Navigated Shells , Muzzle velocity radar sends range correction to shell and for Satellite Navigated Shells , shells are pre programmed and course correction through satellite
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
read up on arty targeting lasing methods you will understand.shaun wrote:Are you taking about precession guidance kit or course correction Fuzeniran wrote:WRT locally produced arty shell guidance yes we have been producing since 2019 currently IA has guidance kit even for mortar rounds. without guidance ATAGS would have been still born, as for why no purchase arrdaar? rest assured situation iz ander kantrol.
Folks here can enlighten, how the coordinates are feeded to this shells . Firing I guess is done in the general direction with elevation for maximum range and this shells with some brake mechanism guided to the target during terminal phase.
Added later
For Non Satellite Navigated Shells , Muzzle velocity radar sends range correction to shell and for Satellite Navigated Shells , shells are pre programmed and course correction through satellite
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
https://twitter.com/manupubby/status/14 ... 92738?s=20 ---> A Pinaka launcher, along with the older Smerch demonstrates abilities to quickly bring down devastating Rocket fire on the enemy. Currently at a training area on the Assam Arunachal border, these long range vectors are tasked for forward positions on the LAC.SSridhar wrote:From the reports, it looks like Pinaka-1, not the ER Mk-1 or Mk-2 or Guided Pinaka.Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 96176?s=20 ---> So finally confirmation that both Smerch and Pinaka MLRS deployed in Tawang.
https://twitter.com/manupubby/status/14 ... 09952?s=20 ---> A Pinaka launcher takes up quick firing position towards the Line of Actual Control (LAC) as part of a training drill and demonstration in the Eastern sector.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 26567?s=20 ---> Report: BrahMos cruise missiles also deployed in Tawang sector of Arunachal Pradesh.