US Election Watch Thread 2024

[saip]

Here in CA Notary Public is a job. People make a living out of it. Here they also visit you to have docs signed when you buy/sell a house. No attorneys involved (cost me $1000 in attorney fees for buying a house in NY). Here the Notary charged little over $100.

[saip]

saip-ji,

Notarization is free in many banks/CUs for people who have an account. For millionaires like yourself, bankers will accommodate you. With BoA you can schedule online for a notary.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/signature ... es/notary/

That is true and they DO accommodate me. But, why bother when I do not need to? BTW, I was a notary in NY (and back home in India - ex officio - too). So I know what I am talking about.

[bala]

The discussions in this YT by PGurus and Kaartik Gor centers around fraud in elections. The US elections and its conduct is under scrutiny worldwide. No one trusts the Deep State and Dumbocrats. Any stunt that they pull in this election and the US would be a laughing stock in the world. No one is going to listen to the US anymore, it will reach banana republic status in the eyes of many. The wall street types and business tycoons don't want the 4T tax liability that the Dumbocrats are planning. There is an internal scramble to distance themselves from this debacle, which will surely tank the economy of the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMxhYgoa6kI

[vera_k]

We'll see of course. My theory is that the stock market will tank before the elections if DJT needs help in an effort to swing some more voters. If the stock market does fine, DJT must be winning comfortably.

[Yagnasri]

It looks like DJT won the appeal in the NY fraud case. This will have a bearing on the elections. People will now see most of the cases as fake. That feeling is already there in most of the GOP voters, and many independents, and it will only increase.

[disha]

My dear Mort,
You are confused. You are conflating the voting in an HOA perhaps (where you DO have TWO envelopes). In CA there is only ONE envelope. Trust me I am looking at at. You fill the ballot and stuff it in the envelope, sign it and put it in your mailbox (if you have one) and put the flag up so that the mail carrier will pick it up. What am I going to notarize? Why spend $20 on that when it is NOT needed and does not serve any purpose. Sure as hell there is a possibility of rigging. Since when is possibility equal to CERTAINITY (prior to 2020)? There is possibility tomorrow Trump will keel over and die (he is near 80, somewhat senile and obese, probably diabetic and could have heart attack) but it is not probability least of all a certainty. These ballots were addressed to me and my wife and that they were received by us is proof enough that they are intended for us.

I can not put an identying mark on the ballot it self or it will be thrown out. But there is a loop hole. I can write my name or even your name (in CA it does not matter as Trump will not win in CA in a month of Sundays) in as candidate for POTUS. Even then the polling agent who processes through a machine will not be able to match the ballot with me. Once the envelope is opened (after matching the signature) and discarded the ballot becomes anonymous. There are lines and blocks on the ballot, but I do not believe they can actually match the ballots with us. In fact i am going to swap my wife's ballot with mine and track them just to prove a point.

Dear SaiP'ji, you are assuming your mailed vote is secure because you think it is secure. And you just identified one loop hole. You are a god-fearing honest to good person.

First of all, how is the mail ballot reached you? Well, at DMV or at the voter registration drive or when you got your citizenship, you used your documentation to prove your citizenship. And gave an address.

Anyway, at DMV, particularly in 26 states, you do NOT have to show any proof for your citizenship to register as a voter.

So how many are genuine citizens who can vote and how many cannot? . This is Fraud Process break #1 within fake voter.

Okay, so now they have your mailing address and send in the ballot. In your case, you very much have a home and a roof. And for a long time. 60% of the Americans do not have a permanent roof. All Americans move every five years between 18-48 yrs. And every 12 years there after. On average, any american will move at least 7.5 years, every year.

So several ballots, particularly for americans aged under 55 years go to wrong place. Once it is turned in, this is Fraud Process break #2.

At least *you* are voting on your ballot. And mailing in. You yourself are not sure who is verifying the signature. That means anyone can vote on anyone's name. Related to above, but only intersectionally. This is Fraud Process break #3.

You either leave the ballot in the mail or drop it off at the designation center. How much trust you have on the postal courier? Or what happens if someone dumps a firecracker in the designated box? What is the security there? What are fraud prevention? One can take out the ballots and dump them out or even change it such a way that it is invalidated. That is Fraud Process break #4.

And then finally at counting station. The returning officers have their own political agendas. That is Fraud Process break #5.

Already for the mail ballots, I have identified five (5) breakpoints. Coming to think of it, there might be other breakpoints.

Major point is, mail in ballots are not bereft of any fraud.

There is a saying among gynaecologists, a woman is either pregnant or not pregnant. There is no such thing as "half pregnant" or "quarter pregnant".

Similarly, the voting process *must* be above board. Right now it isn't and shouting from the roof that it is does not cut it. It just makes them look ridiculous.

* DMV: Department of motor vehicles. Place where you get your driver license and register your vehicle. You can register as voter too.

[disha]

It looks like DJT won the appeal in the NY fraud case. This will have a bearing on the elections. People will now see most of the cases as fake. That feeling is already there in most of the GOP voters, and many independents, and it will only increase.

DJT won the appeal. The case by the NY prosecutor, Latetia, was thrown out.

The prosecuting lawyers were pleading the judges to be lenient on them, since couple of judges observed that this is harassment of an individual, and targeted harassment of a candidate. Tantamount to interfere in elections.

This is US Election Fraud. Candidate intimidation and lawfare against a particular candidate.

When any US federal or state employee talks about Elections in India, please shove this aspect of lawfare and candidate intimidation back into their mouth (provided you are able to get their head stuck in their you know where)

[vijayk]

I don't think it is thrown out yet. It probably will be based on hearing. Bt it might take several months before the final judgement

[saip]

Dear SaiP'ji, you are assuming your mailed vote is secure because you think it is secure.

You are assuming mailed vote is NOT secure because you think it is NOT secure. But thinking alone is NEVER equivalent to concrete evidence.
So far no one came up with evidence that will hold up in a court of law. People tried and what happened:
66 cases filed - 65 thrown out
Sydney Powell – 6 yr suspension, $600 fine, $2700 restitution
Rudy Giuliani – Disbarred and bankrupt
Kenneth Chesboro – Pled guilty
Jenna Ellis – Pled guilty
Scott Hall -Pled guilty
Fox – Paid $850 million in damages.
AG Bar and Director of FBI Wray (both republicans) said no rigging and postal ballots are safe.
So show me one, single, solitary case that proved election rigging in a court of law and I will be changed man.

I hear that in India too they started these conspiracy theories. If the battery level in EVM is 99% BJP wins, but if it is around 70% congress wins. I do not know how that is possible. But that is how conspiracy theories evolve.

[disha]

So show me one, single, solitary case that proved election rigging in a court of law and I will be changed man.

Your logic is very fine. Just that it reminds me of a person who is complete blind and complete deaf and does not believe that there are beautiful (and ugly) elements out there, since a similar cohort of powerful blind and deaf people have deemed so.

Or to make it even simpler, your logic is that of a momeen. You are looking for proof where it does not exist. It is upto you to take it or not.

Now here is where you are murdering the irony. Not just burying it after murdering irony, but taking her body out and then cremating it and then dancing it over its ashes:

But there is a loop hole. I can write my name or even your name ... Even then the polling agent who processes through a machine will not be able to match the ballot with me. ... There are lines and blocks on the ballot, but I do not believe they can actually match the ballots with us. In fact i am going to swap my wife's ballot with mine and track them just to prove a point.

You are publicly claiming that you will do a mail-in ballot fraud to prove the point that the mail-in ballot is broken. And then you are saying that there is no evidence of mail-in fraud. As I said, irony is being murdered viciously.

I hear that in India too they started these conspiracy theories. If the battery level in EVM is 99% BJP wins, but if it is around 70% congress wins. I do not know how that is possible. But that is how conspiracy theories evolve.

First of all, please do not bring in India here. The voting process is entirely different. So comparing a watermelon (Indian elections) with a grap (US Elections) is a fools' errand. Only ignorant, arrogant and stupid (IAS) will believe in the conspiracy theory of EVM manipulation in India. The technology is different, the process is different, the monitoring and conducting agencies are constitutionally independent bodies. In fact, ECI should take hard action on all the political parties that want return of paper ballot.

The point is very subtle:

1. ECI took time and effort, again and again including with another independent body's (SC of India) oversight to prove that the process is tamper proof. ECI itself is an independent body.

2. The election commissioners in US State and Federal are political appointees. Some states do not even have an election commission and are certified by the secretary of state (that is equivalent to home minister in India). Imagine, Sri Amit Shah certifying national elections in India.

US Election commissions have never bothered to show that their process is NOT tamper proof

[vijayk]

Incase of India

The chain of custody is clearly defined in India. EVMs are inspected before the election with all agents, sealed after the election, room is sealed and agents of the parties can guard the rooms. Then it is all opened and counted.

[disha]

I don't think it is thrown out yet. It probably will be based on hearing. Bt it might take several months before the final judgement

Thanks I stand corrected. And please bring out all evidences of US election process violation without fear of being labelled partisans.

[disha]

Incase of India

The chain of custody is clearly defined in India. EVMs are inspected before the election with all agents, sealed after the election, room is sealed and agents of the parties can guard the rooms. Then it is all opened and counted.

ECI has gone to great lengths to prove that the process is tamper proof. For a 3rd world country like India, a huuuuuuuuge democracy, besieged with severe security challenges to conduct elections in the fairest way as humanly and as humanely as possible!

US Elections, au contraire, is shambolic.

[vijayk]

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... 64203.html

The longtime Democratic Party lawyer has already filed more than 60 preelection lawsuits to stop Trump from becoming president again by combatting what he calls Republican “voter suppression” efforts such as requiring voters to provide identification at the polls. Echoing a standard Democratic talking point, Elias maintains that such requirements are “racist” strategies designed to make it harder for minorities to vote.

At the same time, Elias has been sending letters to election officials in Georgia and other key swing states threatening legal action if they uphold challenges to voter rolls to remove noncitizens and other ineligible registrants. Some Georgia officials complain that his intimidation tactics are interfering with county registrars’ ability to check the qualifications of voters.

If Trump is declared the winner, the hard-charging attorney threatens to overturn his election by deploying an army of more than 75 lawyers to sue for ballot recounts in several swing states. Trump, in turn, has threatened to lock Elias up for election interference, as ABC News moderator David Muir pointed out in last month’s presidential debate between Trump and Kamala Harris.

[Leonard]

Mail-in Ballots are the BIG joke in US Politics ...

Note - This was in 2020 - Case of Nicholas BeauChene -- 26 Yrs Old Mail Carrier .. Compare the Photos of Nicholas Beauchene ..

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/politics ... index.html

>>
According to a DOJ statement, 26-year-old Nicholas Beauchene was arrested and charged with one count of delay of mail and one of obstruction of mail. If found guilty of both charges, he faces up to five years and six months in prison and a $255,000 fine.

Court documents say that Beauchene has worked for the Postal Service since July. He’s accused of dumping 1,875 pieces of mail in two dumpsters, one in North Arlington and the other in West Orange.

The mail in the North Arlington dumpster contained 98 general election ballots; mail found in the West Orange dumpster had one general election ballot. All of the mail, according to the DOJ, was eventually delivered.

Postal investigators believe he dumped the mail on two different days, from two different mail routes.

<<

Nicholas Beaucheane -- Turned 27 and Guess what ... Yes The VERY same guy -- 26 yrs old "Sportive" as the French say .. dead at 27 ..

So as per Law - he should have got 5 yrs in JAIL ..Should still be inside ? No ? ..

Obituary: Nicholas Beauchene

https://nazarememorialhome.com/tribute/ ... tuary.html

Co-incidence ? - Mes Non -- As Maigret says in his Detective shows ..

Penn State:

9 Mail-in Ballots (7 for Trump 2 for Dem) - found in Trash -- Next Day the Contractor was FIRED .. Ooh its a Mistake ..

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/politics ... index.html

It's Simple:
Get the Ballot registration
Show up at Designated Election Spot with the Registered letter and ID and Poke a Button -- Too much to ask ?
have a Cookie or Donut & Coffee and go home .. (standard American fare) ..

[vijayk]

With every state/county/volunteers maintaining the chain of custody for these ballots, setting up drop boxes independently, this is prone to be abused by both parties. Unfortunately as soon as the topic comes, we start fighting.

[saip]

"First of all, please do not bring in India here. The voting process is entirely different. So comparing a watermelon (Indian elections) with a grap (US Elections) is a fools' errand,,"
Why not? Only you can bring in irrelevant things but not me? You are the chosen one, the MAHDI but not me? I was talking about conspiracy theories that are being spread by chosen ones in India and the same conspiracy theories are being propagated here too. How are battery levels relevant to ballots? But Congress leaders are claiming they are and that too in press conference.

[saip]

With every state/county/volunteers maintaining the chain of custody for these ballots, setting up drop boxes independently, this is prone to be abused by both parties. Unfortunately as soon as the topic comes, we start fighting.

I agree that BOTH parties can benefit if there is fraud because politicians are not exactly honest. But claiming all this will only benefit one party is the biggest biased claim. That party is generally referred to as DUMB but then must very SMART at the same time as it controls non-existent deep state. The claim that only one party (who keeps losing elections) can control that deep state and rig elections boggles the mind.

[Mort Walker]

saip-ji,

Election comparison with India is appropriate as both are large democracies. The case of Pappu & INC is entirely without merit because the ECI has real teeth compared to the 50 state hodgepodge of the US. Every single person has a biometric photo ID. Each polling station EVM is autonomous AND with checksum verification. The US needs to clean up its election mess. Already Dems are once again talking about eliminating the Electoral College.

Rigging states like PA, MI & WI is easy as election laws have been relatively loose. Stuffing ballot boxes (booth capturing) is a real problem. The money raised by Dems will be used to pay organized crime in cash to fill out fake ballots. This has been going on for decades. In the south, in the past, voter intimidation was prevalent. Doing that today in NC & GA or AL is impossible.

[saip]

Mail-in Ballots are the BIG joke in US Politics ...

It's Simple:
Get the Ballot registration
Show up at Designated Election Spot with the Registered letter and ID and Poke a Button -- Too much to ask ?
have a Cookie or Donut & Coffee and go home .. (standard American fare) ..

Not so. In CA I am voting for EIGHT separate elections and 12 propositions. Who is going to remember all these names and props. So I prefer to do this in the comfort of my home after doing a thorough research of all the props. I do have faith in US Mail even though it is run by Republican.

You can stand in line and have a donut and coffee but I would rather stay home and fill it and mail in my ballot and then have a scotch.

[Jay]

Rigging states like PA, MI & WI is easy as election laws have been relatively loose.

What are these loose election laws and relative to what?

[saip]

Nicholas Beaucheane -- Turned 27 and Guess what ... Yes The VERY same guy -- 26 yrs old "Sportive" as the French say .. dead at 27 ..

So as per Law - he should have got 5 yrs in JAIL ..Should still be inside ? No ? ..

Obituary: Nicholas Beauchene

https://nazarememorialhome.com/tribute/ ... tuary.html

Co-incidence ? - Mes Non -- As Maigret says in his Detective shows ..

You can claim whatever you want but this is from the obit you posted
"Nicholas was predeceased by his parents, William and Tina (nee Miller) Beauchene and by his brother just last month,.."
May be it is genetics. His brother also died before this guy. Their family has a longevity problem?. His brother died of heart attack at age 40. His fathe r died at 56. Mother died at 51. See it is so easy to jump into conclusions when there is no evidence.

[Vayutuvan]

You can stand in line and have a donut and coffee but I would rather stay home and fill it and mail in my ballot and then have a scotch.

Spoken like a true Champagne CA progressive but scotch spilling instead of champagne popping elite.

[Vayutuvan]

... DUMB but then must very SMART ...

Dumb and cunning - low cunning, not high cunning like Chanakya/Kautilya.

[Roop]

... Election comparison with India is appropriate as both are large democracies.

I think the comparison devolves to a much more basic level than mailboxes, mailmen, drop-boxes etc. The simple fact is that in India (or for that matter, in any decent democracy like Canada, UK, Australia, NZ etc.), the entire system (the voters, the Legislature, the judges, election officials etc.) take election integrity seriously. In America they don't. It's as stark and basic as that.

This issue (election integrity) has been a running joke in the US for decades. Dead people vote, non-citizens vote, household pets and farm animals vote (because their names have "somehow" found their way onto electoral rolls for mail-in ballots, etc etc. And often enough, each illegal name votes multiple times, sometimes in the same district, sometimes in a different district.

I predict it will definitely be a big problem this year too. The next few months (from now through late Jan) will be ... (how to put this tactfully) ... lively and interesting . Brace for impact!!!

Already today I saw on the TV news that the Virginia Supreme Court has stepped in and struck down a move by the Legislature to clean up the electoral rolls (i.e. purge the names of illegal voters). Someone filed a lawsuit challenging this move -- not on the grounds that the purged names were legitimate, but because it was too close to the election. The state supreme court ruled that this kind of thing can't be done within 3 months (or less) of election day. So there you go -- Virginia will go to election day with a corrupted voter list, and everybody will go back to sleep for a couple of years, until the next election season rolls around two years from now. Call it a hunch, but I'm sure VA is not the only state with this problem.

[saip]

Roop:
"Already today I saw on the TV news that the Virginia Supreme Court has stepped in and struck down a move by the Legislature ...."
Are you sure of this? It was an EXECUTIVE order by the Governor (not by the legislature). Only the Fed Justice dept filed a case on 10/11/24 (on Friday) as it is against FEDERAL Law (The National Voter Registration Act ) which lays down the quiet period of 90 days. AFAIK the VA SC did not rule yet. So easy to spread conspiracy theories (like the battery voltage of EVM machines in India).

[vijayk]

Neither political party and their operators are DUMB. They are devious, cunning, and manipulative.

It is their hard core supporters who are DUMB. Ideology makes them DUMB.

[vijayk]

Mail-in Ballots are the BIG joke in US Politics ...

It's Simple:
Get the Ballot registration
Show up at Designated Election Spot with the Registered letter and ID and Poke a Button -- Too much to ask ?
have a Cookie or Donut & Coffee and go home .. (standard American fare) ..

Not so. In CA I am voting for EIGHT separate elections and 12 propositions. Who is going to remember all these names and props. So I prefer to do this in the comfort of my home after doing a thorough research of all the props. I do have faith in US Mail even though it is run by Republican.

You can stand in line and have a donut and coffee but I would rather stay home and fill it and mail in my ballot and then have a scotch.

90% of people may not violate the law but rest might.

[saip]

The problem I see in USA elections is low turnout. During the past 124 years starting in 1900 there were only FOUR occasions where the turn out exceeded 65%, the last one being in 2020. Before that you have to go all the way to 1908 to find turn out exceeding 65%. What the brouhaha about conspiracy theories, illegal aliens, postal ballots and election rigging did was to pique interest in voters and they turned out by almost ten percent more in 2020 (67) compared to 2016 (57). I hope the interest continues and this time it exceeds 70 (which is the norm in India - ah, there you go, I bring up India again, in spite of an admonition by an honorable member on this board).

[vijayk]

Governor Glenn Youngkin Issues Statement on Noncitizen Voting Lawsuit Filed by the Biden-Harris Department of Justice
RICHMOND, VA— Governor Glenn Youngkin, after being notified this afternoon that the Biden-Harris Department of Justice was filing a lawsuit against the Commonwealth of Virginia, released the following statement:

"With less than 30 days until the election, the Biden-Harris Department of Justice is filing an unprecedented lawsuit against me and the Commonwealth of Virginia, for appropriately enforcing a 2006 law signed by Democrat Tim Kaine that requires Virginia to remove noncitizens from the voter rolls - a process that starts with someone declaring themselves a non-citizen and then registering to vote. Virginians - and Americans - will see this for exactly what it is: a desperate attempt to attack the legitimacy of the elections in the Commonwealth, the very crucible of American Democracy. With the support of our Attorney General, we will defend these commonsense steps, that we are legally required to take, with every resource available to us. Virginia’s election will be secure and fair, and I will not stand idly by as this politically motivated action tries to interfere in our elections, period."

How do we interpret this?

1. Non Citizens can't vote and the state can verify and remove
2. It is possible that you might remove citizens. But one party might register thousands of ono-citizens few days before 90 day and prevent them from verification and removal. Both parties can manipulate. The polarization has made it difficult to enforce integrity

[KL Dubey]

1. Lot of people looking at election integrity? Really? Who? Can you name really independent people doing it and any space given to them in any MSM entity? Any impartial reports on MSM entities on what? The real thing is anyone and everyone who asks for ID proof is called racist by 99% of the media and so-called intellectuals. Anyone who questions any election result of the Dems is also a racist and election denier. Dems and the entire MSM can say all elections are won by GoP candidates freely and with no problem. No one blinks an eye when they say even non citizens can vote. No one.

There is no point in trying to play some kind of victim card of "anyone questioning the election is a labeled is racist/denier etc."

Nobody is victimizing you here. You can claim whatever you want, but don't get upset when unsubstantiated claims are called out for what they are.

The simple fact is that I am providing evidentially supported discussion, but you're not reading (or don't want to).

I have already posted many links to systematic, very independent, studies looking into election integrity - both voter fraud and voter disenfranchisement .

As for the legal side, another poster has recently listed a number of outcomes on the "voter fraud" side (copying it here):

saip wrote:

66 cases filed - 65 thrown out
Sydney Powell – 6 yr suspension, $600 fine, $2700 restitution
Rudy Giuliani – Disbarred and bankrupt
Kenneth Chesboro – Pled guilty
Jenna Ellis – Pled guilty
Scott Hall -Pled guilty
Fox – Paid $850 million in damages.
AG Bar and Director of FBI Wray (both republicans) said no rigging and postal ballots are safe.
So show me one, single, solitary case that proved election rigging in a court of law and I will be changed man.

I have also provided several cases involving judgements on "voter disenfranchisement" side.

[KL Dubey]

I don't think it is thrown out yet. It probably will be based on hearing. Bt it might take several months before the final judgement

Thanks I stand corrected. And please bring out all evidences of US election process violation without fear of being labelled partisans.

There is no point in trying to play some kind of victim card of "anyone questioning the election is a labeled is racist/denier/partisan etc."

Nobody is victimizing you here. You can claim whatever you want, but don't get upset when unsubstantiated claims are called out for what they are.

(I have posted the above same sentences in reply to another poster)

[KL Dubey]

It looks like DJT won the appeal in the NY fraud case. This will have a bearing on the elections. People will now see most of the cases as fake. That feeling is already there in most of the GOP voters, and many independents, and it will only increase.

Please post a link to support this claim, otherwise it is unverifiable/misinformation.

There was a hearing on Sep 26. No ruling has been made as far as I know. And either side can appeal further.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/26/politics ... index.html

It's an appeals court (5-judge panel), which grilled both sides. There were concerns from some judges about the size of the penalty, and concerns from other judges about the defense claims.

Anything can happen, but my reading is that the judges might lower the penalty from the current $454 million.

Again, I'm offering actual information and a reasoned opinion on the possible outcome. Not unsubstantiated stuff.

[saip]

Why one party? Both parties can do that and do it too. That act The Voter Registration Act was on the books for over 30 years and it is a bipartisan act. So, why did Gov. Youngkin wait till August 2024 to issue an Executive order? Might he be Senilekin? There you go, one more conspiracy theory for the books.

[KL Dubey]

The problem I see in USA elections is low turnout. During the past 124 years starting in 1900 there were only FOUR occasions where the turn out exceeded 65%, the last one being in 2020. Before that you have to go all the way to 1908 to find turn out exceeding 65%. What the brouhaha about conspiracy theories, illegal aliens, postal ballots and election rigging did was to pique interest in voters and they turned out by almost ten percent more in 2020 (67) compared to 2016 (57). I hope the interest continues and this time it exceeds 70 (which is the norm in India - ah, there you go, I bring up India again, in spite of an admonition by an honorable member on this board).

Yes indeed. I pointed out the same things to the same posters back in 2020. But of course these are inconvenient facts and no lessons learned.

[KL Dubey]

It looks like DJT won the appeal in the NY fraud case. This will have a bearing on the elections. People will now see most of the cases as fake. That feeling is already there in most of the GOP voters, and many independents, and it will only increase.

DJT won the appeal. The case by the NY prosecutor, Latetia, was thrown out.

The prosecuting lawyers were pleading the judges to be lenient on them, since couple of judges observed that this is harassment of an individual, and targeted harassment of a candidate. Tantamount to interfere in elections.

This is US Election Fraud. Candidate intimidation and lawfare against a particular candidate.

Please post information revealing that the appeals court has tossed the penalties.

Again, it makes no sense to make bombastic/content-free posts purporting to bring out great conspiracies, and then display exactly the same "fakeness" that others are pointing out.

[KL Dubey]

Again, bringing in correct information. I cleaned up my posts above for clarity.

The only "relief' that NY appellate court gave Trump (back in March) is to reduce his bond posting amount while appealing the penalty. Earlier he was ordered to post the full penalty amount ($454M) as bond. He said he doesn't have the money (no insurance company would cover it) and asked to post only $100M. The appellate court settled on $175M, which Trump posted. So at this point he has temporarily stopped the NY government from starting collection on the penalty which is now at $478M (due to interest accumulation).

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/2 ... -00148815

Note this is only for the civil fraud case. The appeal hearing was on Sep 26. The court ruling may very well come only after the election.

As for the criminal case, he was convicted on 34 felony counts and is awaiting sentencing - which is now subject to the judge's interpretation of the USA supreme court ruling on immunity for "official acts". The judge has postponed his ruling to Nov 12, i.e. after the election.

[chanakyaa]

@saip ji, do you believe the selection/election of Kamala Harris as the presidential candidate of the Democratic party upheld the democratic values? How fair and democratic was the lack of open nomination process to the other 5 or 6 other candidates aspiring to be the presidential candidate of the Democratic party?

Once Biden withdrew from the race this year, the party committee simply updated its Federal Election Commission (FEC) registration to replace Biden with Harris at the top of the ticket. FEC regulations and federal statutory law, unfortunately, do not address this exact situation — an incumbent vice president running for re-election and then moving to the top of the ticket before having been formally renominated at her party’s convention. By the time Biden dropped, the campaign had accumulated approx. $240m in donations. Other candidates were told that they don't have time to raise money, and KH can access the money, arguably, because Election Commission laws are not clear or vague about such situations. Are we so naive to believe that Biden's late stage exit wasn't orchestrated and the seasoned politicians in the democratic party were unaware?

[saip]

Chanakyaa: You DO admit that no laws were broken as they are 'not clear, vague' etc. If no laws were broken why are you bringing this up? If even a wisp of legal breach was there, legal eagles bigger than you and me would have litigated it all the way to SC, would they not? It is another nothing burger. So forget it.

"Are we so naive to believe that Biden's late stage exit wasn't orchestrated and the seasoned politicians in the democratic party were unaware?"
I have no comments about your naivete or otherwise. But was Biden acting when he was debating Trump so that the 'deep state' can orchestrate his replacement? I close my case.

[chanakyaa]

The reason for bringing it here is because this is "US Election Watch Thread" and the election begins by selecting candidates in a mostly two party system

There are two things here in your first point. You addressed only half of it. Was the selection/election of KH done fairly (not just enough votes at the convention, but considering other Democratic party candidates) or was it done by exploiting a technical loophole in favor of one candidate (without breaching law, but mostly due to lack of clear law or vagueness)?

One take,
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... aign-money

...former President Trump, the conservative group Citizens United (plaintiff in the notorious Supreme Court ruling that led to the evisceration of many other campaign finance rules), and a number of Republican state parties have all filed complaints with the FEC. They argue that Harris cannot access the Biden-Harris funds and that — as the Trump complaint puts it — the campaign’s attempt to use them amounts to a “heist.”

Overblown rhetoric aside, there is certainly some room for legal argument here. Given the FEC’s history of allowing joint campaign accounts between incumbent presidential and vice-presidential candidates, however, these complaints are unlikely to gain traction. Even if the law ultimately does not favor the Harris campaign’s position, FEC commissioners have in the past cited unclear rules as grounds to dismiss complaints as a matter of prosecutorial discretion, and there would certainly be a compelling case for such a dismissal here. For better or worse, that decision would be unreviewable in court under current law.

In any event, the evenly divided FEC’s sluggish track record in resolving disputes — often taking years — makes it highly unlikely the commission will rule on this issue before the election. And given the record pace at which the Harris campaign is raising new money, the question of whether they are ultimately entitled to the remaining Biden-Harris campaign funds may be largely academic.
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We do not know whether Biden was acting or not acting, and don't care. And, he has right to choose when he want to stay or drop out of the race. But the timing of his exit opened a technical ground to hasten nomination process at the disadvantage to other candidates.