Military Flight Safety

[basant]

Read about helicopter safety and maintenance (apart from others):

Chauhan @Platypuss_10
Vikas Divyakirti (ex IAS) talks about corruption which happens in Military Engineering Services (MES)

MES is also a Part of corps of Engineers

Watch till end!

Source: https://x.com/Platypuss_10/status/1911658150853583351

[ernest]

One of the issues is that the top position of MES is not given to engineers, but by an Armed Forces officer. Poor incentives, where engineers are not considered fit to lead an engineering service. A lot is rotten with the archaic hierarchy and rules of the armed forces organization.

[Avik]

^^^^^^^
this is wrong info being peddled. MES reports into the Engineer-in-Chief of the Corps of Engineers, Indian Army . He is a qualified engineer, always. You dont get to be an officer of the Indian Army's Corps of Engineers without being an engineer!!!

Divyakriti is a gasbag.....

[basant]

Army Re-Deploys Grounded Dhruv Helicopters For Counter-Terror Ops In Srinagar

In the wake of the deadly terrorist attack on tourists in Pahalgam, the Indian Army has redeployed its Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv fleet for counter-terror operations in Srinagar and adjoining areas of Jammu and Kashmir.
...
Although the precise cause of the fracture remains under investigation, possible factors include material defects, operational stress, and environmental exposure, particularly in saline maritime conditions. Subsequent inspections found similar cracks in swashplates on other Navy and Coast Guard ALH helicopters, raising broader safety concerns.

As a precaution, the fleet was grounded not due to a fundamental design flaw, but to ensure the safety of pilots and crews while a thorough investigation was conducted.

The manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), and independent bodies like the Netherlands Aerospace Centre (NLR) have reviewed the design, with HAL leadership asserting that the helicopter itself has no inherent design flaw. Instead, the focus has shifted to maintenance and operational practices.
...
This temporary clearance comes as security forces intensify efforts to track and neutralize the perpetrators of the Pahalgam attack, underscoring the indispensable role of the ALH Dhruv in India's high-stakes security environment.

[Baikul]

Read about helicopter safety and maintenance (apart from others):

Chauhan @Platypuss_10
Vikas Divyakirti (ex IAS) talks about corruption which happens in Military Engineering Services (MES)

MES is also a Part of corps of Engineers

Watch till end!

Source: https://x.com/Platypuss_10/status/1911658150853583351

There are multiple wrong assumptions, IMO. Also that IAS officer doesn’t have complete grasp over the subject.

First MES has doesn’t deal with military flight safety (the topic of this thread).

It is an arm of the army staffed mostly by civilians. The bulk of the MES job is to do with civil work- construction- buildings, workshops, runways etc.

Entrance examinations to the MES officer cadres are separate from the armed forces. However, army officers on are sent on deputation to the MES.

Undeniably the significant civilian interaction and tender based project work lead to lots of corruption.

However that has not a lot to do with either this thread or what the IAS officer in the link is talking about (which is procurement, and that’s to do with other branches).

Source: know someone very well who was a Brigadier on deputation to an MES unit; he was a high performer sent there specifically to root out corruption.

[vimal]

Army Re-Deploys Grounded Dhruv Helicopters For Counter-Terror Ops In Srinagar

In the wake of the deadly terrorist attack on tourists in Pahalgam, the Indian Army has redeployed its Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv fleet for counter-terror operations in Srinagar and adjoining areas of Jammu

As a precaution, the fleet was grounded not due to a fundamental design flaw, but to ensure the safety of pilots and crews while a thorough investigation was conducted.


This temporary clearance comes as security forces intensify efforts to track and neutralize the perpetrators of the Pahalgam attack, underscoring the indispensable role of the ALH Dhruv in India's high-stakes security environment.

Are they going to do another round of winter, summer, monsoon, spring, Sun, Moon trials after this while happily flying those mig-21s ?

[basant]

There are multiple wrong assumptions, IMO. Also that IAS officer doesn’t have complete grasp over the subject.

First MES has doesn’t deal with military flight safety (the topic of this thread).

I am no one to verify but because the video specifically talks about military safety, I posted here. The claim is not that MES does the maintenance of helos, but what was said was there are some services that compromise the equipment, endangering helicopters too. The source is currently claimed to be an IPS officer who was earlier in MES.

Sabotage by Services is not what just some jingos claim. Years ago Arjun MBT used to pass development trails but mysteriously fail in user trails. So much so that DRDO had to install a 'black box' to nail tinkering. To quote:

Minister of State for Defence (Production) Rao Inderjit Singh has also hinted at a conspiracy to "sabotage" the Arjun tank in April. "The possibility of sabotage needs to be examined. The engines fitted in the tanks were German and were performing well for the past 15 years. I wonder what has happened to them overnight," Singh had said, talking about the reported failures of the tank.

Source: DNA India

Question: Does it really make sense in the context of helo safety?
Ans: Consider the stats on ALH. Despite operating under much more challenging conditions compared to other helicopters, the rate of serious accidents due to technical reasons is about 3 per 1 lakh hours. The recent problems curiously were related to Coast Gaurd, allegedly due to saline conditions. But this makes less sense if you note that there was a brand new helo too while IN has been operating ALH since 2002, with first squadron at Kochi operational since 2013! For sure, none of the naval versions should be flying at all if the design is so bad that brand new helos crash.

Could it be sabotage? If so by whom? I can't answer.

[Bharadwaj]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1917906189184340007

In furtherance to the clarification dated 11th April 2025, it is now intimated that the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv Army and Air Force versions are cleared for operations based on the Defect Investigation (DI) Committee recommendations.

The skid versions will be back in full service soon.

[Manish_P]

Sometimes I wish that there were two separate threads.

The 'Military Flight Safety' thread would discuss issues, developments, reports etc in the field of aviation safety and a specific 'Military Aircraft Accidents & Crashes' thread

Would help to keep the BP and breathing in control

[ramana]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1917906189184340007

In furtherance to the clarification dated 11th April 2025, it is now intimated that the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv Army and Air Force versions are cleared for operations based on the Defect Investigation (DI) Committee recommendations.

The skid versions will be back in full service soon.

Investigation found that swashplates have fatigue cracks for the wheeled ALH which In and Coast Guard use. So skid versions are released which both IA and IAF use.

As to why wheeled versions are experiencing issues the hypothesis is the rolling takeoff on ships induces extra loads.

Easy to find out by instrumenting them on shore.

[Manish_P]

..

Investigation found that swashplates have fatigue cracks for the wheeled ALH which In and Coast Guard use. So skid versions are released which both IA and IAF use.

As to why wheeled versions are experiencing issues the hypothesis is the rolling takeoff on ships induces extra loads.

..

Very interesting Ramana ji. But surely there are/were other helicopters which had versions used on land and on ships. Did they experience such issues?

In any case as you have mentioned extensive rolling testing on land could help. Are there rigs on land which simulate the roll/sway of a ship?

[Haridas]

Investigation found that swashplates have fatigue cracks for the wheeled ALH which In and Coast Guard use. So skid versions are released which both IA and IAF use.

As to why wheeled versions are experiencing issues the hypothesis is the rolling takeoff on ships induces extra loads.

Easy to find out by instrumenting them on shore.

Wheeled configuration allows greater MTOWeight compared to skids that require hovering T/O & landing.