Understanding the US - Again

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

Rudradev wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:34 "Facts". LOL.

AOC grew up in Westchester, an expensive suburb north of NYC.
Westchester is not a single suburb, but a county(similar to district in India) and is a collection of towns. The listing of the house is still available and I do not who in their right mind would call this "expensive"...lol

https://www.compass.com/listing/1965-lo ... 490590977/
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

Towns in Westchester County, list and map:
http://www.westchestertowns.com/htm/index.html
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

Jay wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:46
Westchester is not a single suburb, but a county(similar to district in India) and is a collection of towns. The listing of the house is still available and I do not who in their right mind would call this "expensive"...lol

https://www.compass.com/listing/1965-lo ... 490590977/
That us expensive. Maybe not by CA standards or NYC/NJ standards but still 350k for a <1000 sft house 3BH1B. I will give you that the lot its sits on is big but still.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

Jay wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:46

The listing of the house is still available and I do not who in their right mind would call this "expensive"...lol

https://www.compass.com/listing/1965-lo ... 490590977/
I know, right? Who in their right mind would call a single-family house with a full basement, garden, and swimming pool (!) in Yorktown Heights expensive?

Surely not the half of all American renters who now consider home ownership beyond their grasp for the foreseeable future-- https://www.npr.org/2024/01/25/12259578 ... tudy-finds
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... in-the-us/

In other words, the "common working American" people that the likes of Ocasio Cortez claim to represent with such compassionate authenticity :mrgreen:

By the way, the "listing" for Ocasio Cortez's house is at $355,000... but a little literacy goes a long way. The very same link shows that similar homes in the same neighborhood are going for up to three-quarters of a million dollars.

Now why would someone list their house for "only" $355,000 when you could get twice as much for it in a neighborhood like Yorktown Heights?

Unless you have no intention of actually selling it, but you list it at that price only to curate a certain flavor of "facts" that sustain the myth of AOC's "working class" roots? :wink:

Unfortunately for those who defend the likes of Ocasio Cortez, my own facts come from direct personal experience. As a student, I lived for a time in East Elmhurst, Queens, NY (median household income now $78,598 as opposed to AOC's Yorktown Heights' $138,750). I've actually seen how genuine working-class Puerto Ricans (and other Hispanics) live-- many were my neighbours in that shabby apartment block. Many wake up in the early hours of the morning and take public transit to places in Westchester County, working long hours as landscapers, housekeepers, and nannies for barely above minimum wage.

By contrast, Ocasio-Cortez's "working class" father owned an architectural firm :rotfl:

There's way more to say about this mythic construction of AOC as a product of the proletariat-- including the fact that she went to a high school equipped with the funding and infrastructure to conduct science fairs; not only that, a high school with the institutional connections to bring their science fair to the attention of august institutions like MIT. Indeed, I'm sure the administrative (if not academic) staffers at MIT wet themselves for joy at being able to "honour" a "working-class Hispanic wimminz" student like AOC by naming a piece of space junk after her.

For comparison: the high schools in East Elmhurst, and similar neighborhoods throughout the Bronx and Queens (AOC's constituency) are the type where knife-fights occur during recess and 12th-grade students matriculate with reading and math skills of a 3rd-grade level. Power to the People, no?

Seriously, anyone living in the NY/NJ area is free to take a weekend trip to confirm what I'm saying for themselves. Go to 34th street and ride the F train into Elmhurst avenue (or if you are feeling brave and not carrying too much cash, the D train into South Bronx). Then go back to Grand Central station and ride the Metro North into Yorktown Heights in Westchester. Observe the differences for yourself, many are quite evident even on cursory examination.

Then listen to the Democrats tell you to abandon the evidence of your senses, because Facts Matter.

As an aside, I have no doubt AOC demonstrated a great deal of skill and knowledge in her science-fair exhibit about roundworms. It would be hard to find a more qualified expert on any kind of parasitism.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Amber G. »

Jay wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:46
Rudradev wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:34 "Facts". LOL.

AOC grew up in Westchester, an expensive suburb north of NYC.
Westchester is not a single suburb, but a county(similar to district in India) and is a collection of towns. The listing of the house is still available and I do not who in their right mind would call this "expensive"...lol

https://www.compass.com/listing/1965-lo ... 490590977/
From one who is very familiar ..
Yes, as said it is NOT a suburb but a county.. contains neighborhood like Scarsdale (One of the wealthiest communities in the U.S.), Rye, Chappaqua ( home of the Clintons.) etc
but also have -
- Mount Vernon ( Borders the Bronx - some areas quite poor)
- Yonkers (some neighborhoods like Getty Square etc are quite poor)
- Port Chester ( Historically a working-class, immigrant-rich community.

AOC spent part of her childhood in Parkchester (Bronx) and later moved to Yorktown Heights ( a middle-class to upper-middle-class — not among the wealthiest, but relatively suburban and safe compared to the South Bronx).
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

The Ocasio-Cortez family fortunes took a tumble after AOC's father died in 2008.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Amber G. »

Rudradev wrote: 22 Jul 2025 08:52
<snio>
There's way more to say about this mythic construction of AOC as a product of the proletariat-- including the fact that she went to a high school equipped with the funding and infrastructure to conduct science fairs; not only that, a high school with the institutional connections to bring their science fair to the attention of august institutions like MIT. Indeed, I'm sure the administrative (if not academic) staffers at MIT wet themselves for joy at being able to "honour" a "working-class Hispanic wimminz" student like AOC by naming a piece of space junk after her.
<snip>
Your comment reflects a deep misunderstanding of how elite science competitions like Intel ISEF actually work — and frankly, that’s not something to wear proudly.

The Intel International Science and Engineering Fair (ISEF) is not a local school science fair that gets attention because of "institutional connections." It is the largest and most prestigious pre-college STEM competition in the world, drawing millions of entries globally, (About 80 countries - India too, and those who win becomes famous) with only ~1,800 students selected each year as finalists after multiple levels of merit-based filtering. The judging is conducted by PhDs and domain experts, and students compete based on original research, not privilege.

Ocasio-Cortez won 2nd place in microbiology — a category judged to near-doctoral standards. That achievement is entirely independent of her school’s ZIP code or her background. Students from public schools, small towns, and underfunded districts frequently succeed at ISEF because the competition is designed to reward individual merit, creativity, and scientific rigor — not connections.

As for the asteroid: MIT Lincoln Lab names them after all top finishers in ISEF as a way to encourage scientific talent. This is a standard, decades-old practice — not some special political tokenism. If you're going to weigh in on someone's academic or scientific credentials, especially with such sneering sarcasm, it helps to first understand how the system actually works.

Otherwise, you're not critiquing — you're just broadcasting ignorance.

PS Speaking personally — as someone who's mentored students in these very competitions and is also a proud parent of an ISEF awardee whose name was honored in the same way — I’ve seen up close the kind of commitment, brilliance, and plain hard work it takes to reach that level. These aren’t flukes or favors — they’re earned. It’s worth celebrating, not scoffing at. /sigh/

Added later (For those who may not know) ISEF is related/renamed from
- Westinghouse Science Talent Search (1942–1997)
- Intel Science Talent Search (1998–2016) – This was distinct from ISEF but ran alongside it. It was a prestigious U.S.-only competition for seniors.
Intel ISEF (1997–2019) – Intel also sponsored the international fair during this time.

(Now for in US we have:=
Regeneron ISEF (2020–present) – International competition.
Regeneron STS (Science Talent Search) – U.S.-only, top-tier competition, formerly Intel STS.

Intel competition AOC participated in was the international ISEF, not the STS. She earned 2nd place in her category, Microbiology, and that led to the asteroid honor.
Last edited by Amber G. on 22 Jul 2025 10:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

Please read what I actually wrote. Where have I said that IISEF is not a prestigious and (as you admit) ELITE competition?

My point is that residing in the kinds of school districts that give kids access to seriously compete in things like IISEF— with all the mentorship, preparation, and yes, funding involved in competing successfully— is a mark of a financially privileged background, and not something that an actual member of the growing American underclass can realistically aspire to.

The more it is harped on that AOC participated successfully in IISEF, the more it makes my point that her claim of coming from a working class background is a completely fictional pretense... exactly in line with all the rest of her fake victimhood and vapid virtue signaling.

So please go ahead and continue broadcasting this vignette, with bold text and large font and whatever else seems appropriate to you. Every time it's repeated, it only reinforces yet another facet of AOC's fraudulent persona.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by gakakkad »

I agree with rudradev on this one . ISEF while highly prestigious and even having some winners having to gone on to win a nobel does have one flaw. Parents/family/friends can pass on their own work as the kids work . I know several such examples of kids who made it high enough to various stages of isef both in the US and India including folks who made it all the way to international round . It is also highly dependant upon resources a family has rather than just kids talent.

She went on to not study any stem at college level and became a glorified pappu.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

gakakkad wrote: 22 Jul 2025 10:21 I agree with rudradev on this one . ISEF while highly prestigious and even having some winners having to gone on to win a nobel does have one flaw. Parents/family/friends can pass on their own work as the kids work .
...
She went on to not study any stem at college level and became a glorified pappu.
Baap re! Taking credit for the ideas, knowledge, and hard work of other people?

No way someone with the rectitude, integrity, and upright moral character of "working class" Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would EVER do something like that! :rotfl:
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

Rectitude, integrity and upright moral character in US politics is quite absent, starting from the top. The American voter has made it clear it is irrelevant. Would you like to have a beer with them or how they eat hotdogs is a key metric for the voter.

There is next to zero probability that the Democrats will secure veto-proof majorities in Congress in 2026. In that sense, AOC, Ilhan Omar are irrelevant to India.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by saip »

Jay wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:46
Rudradev wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:34 "Facts". LOL.

AOC grew up in Westchester, an expensive suburb north of NYC.
Westchester is not a single suburb, but a county(similar to district in India) and is a collection of towns. The listing of the house is still available and I do not who in their right mind would call this "expensive"...lol

https://www.compass.com/listing/1965-lo ... 490590977/
It also houses that prison - Sing Sing by the Hudson river, with beautiful views, which gave rise to the expression 'sent down the river' but by no means an expensive county.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

Vayutuvan wrote: 22 Jul 2025 08:18
Jay wrote: 22 Jul 2025 06:46
Westchester is not a single suburb, but a county(similar to district in India) and is a collection of towns. The listing of the house is still available and I do not who in their right mind would call this "expensive"...lol

https://www.compass.com/listing/1965-lo ... 490590977/
That us expensive. Maybe not by CA standards or NYC/NJ standards but still 350k for a <1000 sft house 3BH1B. I will give you that the lot its sits on is big but still.
No, it is not...

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

Rudradev wrote: 22 Jul 2025 08:52
What's the point, sir ji?
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

That everything about AOC is fraudulent, starting from this myth of her so-called humble working-class origins.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

A_Gupta wrote: 22 Jul 2025 09:23 The Ocasio-Cortez family fortunes took a tumble after AOC's father died in 2008.
That is an excellent observation. That maybe the reason why she knew she was privileged but once that disappears life is hard. She understands the travails and privations of the working class/lower middle class folks in big cities like NYC.

That said, she seems to have gone awry in the sense that she stopped being a STEM woman (?) and became an airheaded attention seeking activist. New Green Deal is a total disaster as far as economic viability goes.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

Typical overreach - trying to address way more problems than the particular crisis calls for.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by bala »

bala wrote: 22 Jul 2025 00:04 Tulsi Gabbard says that there are 100 documents indicting the Obama Admin on Russia conspiracy.
Now Obama and his minions are dismissing the evidence dug up by US DNI Tulsi Gabbard. In the YT below, Tulsi claims that then US intelligence did not find (Nada, zilch) any Russian involvement in US elections. After DJT V1.0 was elected by the US defeating the Dem H. Clinton, which was a shock to the Dems and to Hillary herself, Obama instructed the intelligence to open a new investigation into Russian inteference in the election. So this Obama chap is denying his own written orders, which cannot become even more ridiculous lying to the US public.

Tulsi Gabbard Responds To Obama Office’s Denial Letter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJA1YCIwGG8

BTW there is always a slimy Britshit called Chris Steele who produced a bogus dossier implicating DJT and Russia. This is part and parcel of counter intelligence operation conducted by Obama intelligence officials and the whole deal was underwritten by H. Clinton's team. So आवरण – conceal/cover and विक्षेप – projection were practiced together and mighty प्रातिभासिक pratibhasik (exist only in appearance) tale was connocted to push out DJT V1.0. However the US public were smart and voted DJT V1.0 instead of H. Clinton.
Last edited by bala on 23 Jul 2025 04:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_ ... ted_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_ ... in_America

They snuck in Sadhana in there.
Several organizations have been formed to combat discrimination against Hindus in the United States and raise issues impacting Hindu Americans. Some of these organizations include:

Hindu American Foundation: HAF is an American Hindu advocacy group founded in 2003 with the broad aim of protecting the rights of Hindus in the United States and raising cultural appropriation issues.[169] Around 2023, HAF was among several Hindu-American organizations that successfully opposed the SB 403 bill, which aimed to introduce caste laws in California that could have unfairly targeted Hindu Americans.[167]

Sadhana: aims to empower Hindu-Americans to live the values of their faith through service, community transformation, and advocacy work.[170]

CoHNA: Coalition of Hindus of North America[171]- Due to CoHNA's activism, Georgia passed a resolution condemning "Hinduphobia" in 2023, making it the first state in United States to pass such a resolution.[172]

HinduPACT: The Hindu Policy Research and Advocacy Collective (HinduPACT) is an American Hindu advocacy group with stated aims to monitor acts of hatred towards Hindu Americans while engaging with all Americans to promote Hindu values such as pluralism.[173]
HinduPACT has AHAD (American Hindus Against Defamation)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_ ... ed_States
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

There is also a list of authors - both pro-hindu anti-hindu - and their biographies with AHAD evaluation of their writings. One example.

https://hindupact.org/factsheets/view.p ... ish_Taseer
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

Rudradev wrote: 22 Jul 2025 22:49 That everything about AOC is fraudulent, starting from this myth of her so-called humble working-class origins.
Only someone who's dyed red in GOP talking points can say with a straight face that someone whose parent is a cleaning lady and whose family clearly seems to be middle-middle class is privileged.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

bala wrote: 23 Jul 2025 03:58
bala wrote: 22 Jul 2025 00:04 Tulsi Gabbard says that there are 100 documents indicting the Obama Admin on Russia conspiracy.
Now Obama and his minions are dismissing the evidence dug up by US DNI Tulsi Gabbard. In the YT below, Tulsi claims that then US intelligence did not find (Nada, zilch) any Russian involvement in US elections. After DJT V1.0 was elected by the US defeating the Dem H. Clinton, which was a shock to the Dems and to Hillary herself, Obama instructed the intelligence to open a new investigation into Russian inteference in the election. So this Obama chap is denying his own written orders, which cannot become even more ridiculous lying to the US public.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RLA1Sb4fBM
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by bala »

The charges on the Russia Hoax are central to the case on Obama. He colluded with the DNC and H. Clinton in creating such a hoax and thrusting it on the US public. The Steele dossier is a complete fake created for the hoax. Obama's order politicized intelligence against a candidate for election of the post of US President. Obama sought to de-legitimize DJT against H. Clinton so that he had no chance of winning the election. However H. Clinton lost the election and DJT was smeared with unsavory cooked up nonsense all directed by Obama.

DNI Tulsi Gabbard speaks with clarity and radiates transparency, honesty and truth in this address from the White House Podium.

Tulsi Gabbard Speaks On Russia Hoax From The White House.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx37JTVKhRk

// Clearly this episode is worse than the Nixon watergate affair. Obama used the US intelligence apparatus and the media to besmirch an opposition candidate. DNI Tulsi Gabbard has done an excellent job unearthing the evidence at the highest level - the truth comes out, with documentation and proof.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/07/23 ... led-denied
A federal judge in Florida denies the Justice Department’s request to unseal Epstein grand jury transcripts.
...
A federal judge in Florida on Wednesday denied a request by the Trump administration to release grand jury transcripts from an investigation into the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein, stymying efforts by President Trump to blunt criticism from many of his supporters.

The denial came after the government last week asked the court to unseal those documents and to transfer the case to New York, where Mr. Epstein was indicted after a grand jury investigation in 2019. In its request, the Justice Department cited “special circumstances” that arose from “historical interest by the public,” asking the court to unseal transcripts from two grand juries convened in 2005 and 2007.

The decision is all but certain to frustrate the Trump administration’s frantic bid to show that no secrets remain from the government’s investigations into Mr. Epstein in Florida.
...
In a brief 12-page order, Judge Robin L. Rosenberg wrote that the court’s “hands are tied,” pointing to what she said was the government’s own concession in its filing that the laws on criminal procedure generally forbid courts from unsealing grand jury testimony except in narrow circumstances.

She wrote that the Justice Department’s requests fell outside those narrow contexts, which can include sharing testimony with other department lawyers or as evidence in another related lawsuit.

She similarly dismissed the idea that moving the case to New York served any purpose other than getting around those rules, as the government’s case against Mr. Epstein in New York was already long over.

“The government’s request is not to assist with litigation in the New York federal proceedings,” she wrote. “The government wants the petition to be granted so that it can release evidence to the public at large.”

Judge Rosenberg ordered that a new case be created “in the public interest” that provided access to the government’s requests and the denial order, as the Epstein grand jury docket is still sealed.

But she ordered closed the case where the government filed its request, which started with the investigation into Mr. Epstein in Florida in 2005, and specified in bold typeface that no transcripts or grand jury materials that had not been previously disclosed would appear on the new docket.
...
As for the the Judge Rosenberg, she is appointed by Obama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_L._Rosenberg
Judge of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida
Incumbent
Assumed office July 24, 2014
Appointed by Barack Obama
Preceded by Adalberto Jordan
Personal details
Born Robin Lee Rosenberg
January 22, 1962 (age 63)
West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.
Education Princeton University (BA)
Duke University (MA, JD)
A very elite institution educated judge appointed by the elite Harvard educated Obama.

I have no idea what to make of it. Who is trying to out who and who is trying to protect who?
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

It doesn't prove what you think it proves. No siree.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

Nobody is going to jail anytime soon. It is al posturing for 2026 midterms and 2028 presidential elections.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

Tulski Gabbard’s report analyzed:

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/gabbard-ga ... nce-russia

——
In other news we are told:

“ The Wall Street Journal just confirmed it: Donald Trump’s name appears multiple times in the Epstein files.”

I hasten to add that Trump obviously fears that the files might mention him criminally or in a way that is too politically costly. Whether it actually does or not is not central to this phase of the story.

—-

The relevance to anything India cares about is not clear to me; but I guess when one is on the road, one must keep up with traffic.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

Microsoft CoPilot AI:

Q: How does the Epstein affair affect any of India's interests? Be concise.

A:
It underscores how global elite networks operate above borders and beneath scrutiny, reminding India to vet international ties of its billionaires, politicians, and celebrities for potential abuse of power.

It offers a cautionary tale about narrative manipulation and secrecy—urging India to bolster whistle-blower protections and ensure transparent, independent investigations into elite misconduct.

It highlights the need for robust institutional accountability and media freedom in India to prevent cover-ups, politicisation of justice, and erosion of public trust
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

Rule 6E of Federal Court procedures:- the reasons for which a court can authorize disclosure of a grand jury matter:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_6
(E) The court may authorize disclosure—at a time, in a manner, and subject to any other conditions that it directs—of a grand-jury matter:

(i) preliminarily to or in connection with a judicial proceeding;

(ii) at the request of a defendant who shows that a ground may exist to dismiss the indictment because of a matter that occurred before the grand jury;

(iii) at the request of the government, when sought by a foreign court or prosecutor for use in an official criminal investigation;

(iv) at the request of the government if it shows that the matter may disclose a violation of State, Indian tribal, or foreign criminal law, as long as the disclosure is to an appropriate state, state-subdivision, Indian tribal, or foreign government official for the purpose of enforcing that law; or

(v) at the request of the government if it shows that the matter may disclose a violation of military criminal law under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, as long as the disclosure is to an appropriate military official for the purpose of enforcing that law.
The request to the court made by the Trump DoJ referred to rule 6E and the judge said, of course, you have correctly cited the law, and there shall be no disclosure.

While the practice of grand jury secrecy goes back into medieval English law, the above rule was codified in 1944. No doubt the far-seeing President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the Democrats who were dominant at that time anticipated the Epstein affair, and made this rule to thwart Trump.

But remember, what the MAGA public wants is disclosure of the relevant parts of the 300 Gigabytes worth of Epstein material that is in the custody of the Department of Justice, not in the custody of the Courts.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

A_Gupta wrote: 24 Jul 2025 03:49 The relevance to anything India cares about is not clear to me; but I guess when one is on the road, one must keep up with traffic.
Understanding the US for those who are swayed by DDM who lean heavily towards the DNC folks. And also mid level aafsaar class who will climb up the ladder to become policy makers in GoI.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Since AOC came up,
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s office in the Bronx was vandalized early on Monday by masked protesters claiming to support Palestinian rights. They defaced her image by splattering red paint across the windows and left behind a sign reading “AOC funds genocide in Gaza.” The New York Democrat has also received violent threats in recent days, according to her senior adviser Oliver Hidalgo-Wohlleben.

....
Disowned by the Democratic Socialists of America and hounded by a segment of the far left that ignores real enemies in favor of cannibalizing allies, AOC’s latest crime was voting “no” on an amendment pushed by far-right wack job Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene to defund Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense system. AOC’s response was direct and principled.
Marjorie Taylor Greene’s amendment does nothing to cut off offensive aid to Israel nor end the flow of US munitions being used in Gaza. Of course I voted against it.

What it does do is cut off defensive Iron Dome capacities while allowing the actual bombs killing Palestinians to continue.

I have long stated that I do not believe that adding to the death count of innocent victims to this war is constructive to its end. That is a simple and clear difference of opinion that has long been established.

I remain focused on cutting the flow of US munitions that are being used to perpetuate the genocide in Gaza.
Only six House members supported that amendment: Republicans Greene and Thomas Massie, who opposes all government spending; and Democrats Al Green, Summer Lee, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib. It’s a bizarre coalition, to put it mildly.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

Jay wrote: 24 Jul 2025 01:20
Rudradev wrote: 22 Jul 2025 22:49 That everything about AOC is fraudulent, starting from this myth of her so-called humble working-class origins.
Only someone who's dyed red in GOP talking points can say with a straight face that someone whose parent is a cleaning lady and whose family clearly seems to be middle-middle class is privileged.
I provide evidence-based arguments, you spout rhetoric. Typical Dem.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

Rudradev wrote: 24 Jul 2025 13:24
Jay wrote: 24 Jul 2025 01:20

Only someone who's dyed red in GOP talking points can say with a straight face that someone whose parent is a cleaning lady and whose family clearly seems to be middle-middle class is privileged.
I provide evidence-based arguments, you spout rhetoric. Typical Dem.
Sir ji, your evidence clearly showed she is not part of the money class. I do not know what evidence you have shown of the contrary.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by KL Dubey »

^^"Jay", I agree with you. AOC's family was very much "working class" and struggled to stay in the "lower middle class". I do not know why people are trying to prove otherwise.

That said, this stupid Rep-Dem binary cretinism has poisoned these threads and BRF significantly, as I have pointed out several times. A few disgruntled elements have created a dumb-down effect on posters, leaving bharatiya ethos aside and resorting to binary arguments.

We need to "Understand the US" from bharatiya perspective, not imbibe its characteristics in the guise of "understanding".
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

Jay wrote: 24 Jul 2025 20:28
Rudradev wrote: 24 Jul 2025 13:24

I provide evidence-based arguments, you spout rhetoric. Typical Dem.
Sir ji, your evidence clearly showed she is not part of the money class. I do not know what evidence you have shown of the contrary.
For starters, the above is evidence of the typical Dem propensity for moving goalposts in the face of inconvenient realities. That is, unless you have a fundamentally unique definition of "the money class"-- it's not a term I've ever used.

The BS narrative spun around AOC is that she is "working class" and rose from a background of economic hardship. To bolster this fraud, the only things aggressively publicized about her pre-politics resume are
- "Girl from the Bronx" ( :lol: )
-" former bartender" (a temporary gig for her, as it is for many college students and recent graduates from affluent families)
- and "community organizer" (which has been a euphemism for "NED/USAID trained aandolan-jeevi" since the Obama era).

As most unblinkered people will see:
- she grew up in Yorktown Heights, in a single-family home with a garden and pool (similar properties sell for around $700,000 in the same neighborhood)
- her father OWNED an architectural firm
- she attended a school district that could support successful participation in the Intel ISEF competition-- an admittedly ELITE contest in which participants (or highly-credentialed parents/relatives/friends from their family's social circle) win special recognition from august institutions like MIT
- despite her apparent genius with redox biochemistry in roundworms, she ended up in Boston University pursuing a liberal arts degree (apparently her options were not restricted to NY state schools where tuition is less expensive)

Dems are welcome to consider this sort of background "economically underprivileged". In fact, I hope they do-- nothing will cement their future electoral failures more conclusively than their own delusions about what 'working class' actually means in America.
Last edited by Rudradev on 24 Jul 2025 22:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

For those who think this is irrelevant to Bharat, meanwhile, I have two words: Consider Pappu.

For more than a decade now, every effort has been made to craft a similarly spurious back-story for the (very slowly) Rising Star of Indian Politics. Man of the People, Mohabbat ka Dukaan, Bharat Jodo Yatra, blah blah blah. Every word of it nonsense, but repeated endlessly through multiple channels in the hope that it will stick.

The worldviews tapped to contrive such back-stories, the techniques employed to disseminate them, and the networks used to fund their dissemination all smell very much the same in AOC's case and in Pappu's. This is no coincidence.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

PM Modi’s father was also a small business owner. It neither tells anything about wealth, nor income - two very distinct things. For example, just as a possibility, AIC’s father was a second-generation Bronxite. He might have inherited property; but architecture is not a lucrative profession for the vast majority of architects.

When Pappu’s mother worked cleaning houses and as a bus driver after her husband’s death, then let us compare origin stories, IMO. Also, coming from a politically unknown lineage vs Motilal Nehru - Jawaharlal Nehru -India Gandhi - Rajiv Gandhi - Pappu is hardly comparable. I suggest some deep calming breaths before making far fetched comparisons.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

A_Gupta wrote: 24 Jul 2025 23:32 I suggest some deep calming breaths before making far fetched comparisons.
That is not the thrust of @Rudradev's argument, AFAIK.

This is.

viewtopic.php?p=2654994#p2654994
The worldviews tapped to contrive such back-stories, the techniques employed to disseminate them, and the networks used to fund their dissemination all smell very much the same in AOC's case and in Pappu's. This is no coincidence.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rudradev »

A_Gupta wrote: 24 Jul 2025 23:32 PM Modi’s father was also a small business owner. It neither tells anything about wealth, nor income - two very distinct things. For example, just as a possibility, AIC’s father was a second-generation Bronxite. He might have inherited property; but architecture is not a lucrative profession for the vast majority of architects.
Thank you, this is instructive. It will help people see what I mean.

To sustain the myth of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's humble, working-class origins, it becomes necessary to posit some truly eye-popping class equivalences: such as between the owner of an architectural firm in the New York City area, and a tea seller on a railway platform in 1950s India.

And of course the absurdity of such comparisons must be buffered by a semantic shifting of goalposts: Architects are not rich!! Yorktown Heights, Westchester is not expensive!!

Again. To the latter point-- there are ample data showing that about half of millennial Americans and nearly 3/4 of gen Z Americans cannot afford to buy ANY kind of home. And that among the vast numbers of these people who must rent their living spaces, about half feel that they will never be able to afford a home given their wealth and income.

In other words, for a great swath of Americans-- no longer just the "white working class" of rural Appalachia whom J D Vance wrote about in "Hillbilly Elegy", but much more numerous than that-- yes, buying a home in AOC's hometown IS unaffordably expensive.

Many Desi Americans may not consider shelling out $6 to 700,000 for a stand-alone single family house in Yorktown Heights, Westchester to be 'expensive'. That's because many Desis, even if they do not see themselves as 'rich' but 'middle class', ARE part of the economic elite in the US. Maybe we can dip into our money-market accounts and purchase such a home at relatively short notice, paying cash without feeling much of a pinch-- how many Americans do we imagine this to be true for?

Hopefully any who are reading this will realise that it is a big reason why we are hated, considered 'white-adjacent' and accused of 'privilege' by Leftists in the United States: not only for being economically successful, but appearing clueless about the implications of our economic success relative to a very large portion of the American public.

That's as good a place to begin "Understanding the US" as any, and a rather useful one from our own perspective.
When Pappu’s mother worked cleaning houses and as a bus driver after her husband’s death, then let us compare origin stories, IMO. Also, coming from a politically unknown lineage vs Motilal Nehru - Jawaharlal Nehru -India Gandhi - Rajiv Gandhi - Pappu is hardly comparable. I suggest some deep calming breaths before making far fetched comparisons.
Since you bring that up, we all know what they claim Pappu's mother did for a living when she met her husband-- bartending, the much-publicized highlight of AOC's resume! :D Are you saying SHE wasn't from humble working-class origins? :rotfl:

Also, there's a difference between working a relatively menial job for a few years while having the security of home-ownership in an affluent neighborhood with a good school district, vs. a multitude of Americans who clean homes or drive buses while renting their living spaces, trapped in permanent debt, and unable to aspire to anything better for their children.

Your own reference to the distinction between 'wealth' and 'income' would be relevant here. AOC's mother was trying to supplement the family's income, temporarily, after her husband's death. Genuinely working-class and underprivileged Americans toil away at such jobs for their very sustenance, and with no hope of ever accumulating significant net worth i.e. wealth.

In all seriousness, I am not comparing the actual origins of Pappu and AOC. What I am drawing attention to are the sustained, well-funded propaganda campaigns to systematically misrepresent the origin stories of both these people, shaping fact-free mythologies around them to improve their electability. More successfully, thus far, in AOC's case.

The similarities in the content, distribution networks, and backing of these propaganda campaigns not only indicate the functioning of a common nexus behind the two; they should also warn Indians about what to expect in the (distinctly possible) event that AOC wins the Democrat primary for the 2028 Presidential Election.

I have made no secret of my opinion of Trump or the GOP here. Thanks to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, however, I am of the unshakable opinion that there are much worse things to look forward to than a third Trump Presidency (or one fronted by a nominated minion ruling on his behalf).
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

Rudradev wrote: 25 Jul 2025 04:50 ... a third Trump Presidency (or one fronted by a nominated minion ruling on his behalf).
Would you consider JD VAnce to be that if he were to get the GOP nomination and win in 2028? He will surely seek nomination among others in Trump cabinet. The other is ofc SDOTUS who did run in the GOP primaries before.
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