India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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ShauryaT
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ShauryaT »

"India is not only buying massive amounts of Russian Oil, they are then, for much of the Oil purchased, selling it on the Open Market for big profits. They don’t care how many people in Ukraine are being killed by the Russian War Machine. Because of this, I will be substantially raising the Tariff paid by India to the USA. Thank you for your attention to this matter!!! President DJT"
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Sell your shares in Boeing.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Per AI, if Russian oil is eliminated from the world market and other producers increase their production, even in the optimistic scenario the world is short of 3 million barrels a day.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ricky_v »

Image
ShauryaT
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ShauryaT »

A_Gupta wrote: 04 Aug 2025 22:41 Per AI, if Russian oil is eliminated from the world market and other producers increase their production, even in the optimistic scenario the world is short of 3 million barrels a day.
This is not about India, it is about Russia and pressure on it to make a deal on Ukraine. India just happens to be the malleable entity at this time. Price of not having enough leverage and/or not willing to hit back. For all we know the monkey and the bear would be smoking cigars in a week. India has to play this deftly. Not principled, but sly and serve its interests - which are fungible in days, weeks and years. The above MEA statement is a principled one - not sure if it will get India to the goal post.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

ShauryaT wrote: 04 Aug 2025 22:52 ...MEA statement is a principled one - not sure if it will get India to the goal post.
It has to be said at least once. That will set the stage for give and take in the negotiations going forward. My guess is that EU/US hypocrisy is out there for all to see. Global south believes India more than EU/US. That has been quite obvious when our MP delegations reached out to the world.

The above memo is an indication that India can give back as good as it gets.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by williams »

ShauryaT wrote: 04 Aug 2025 22:52
A_Gupta wrote: 04 Aug 2025 22:41 Per AI, if Russian oil is eliminated from the world market and other producers increase their production, even in the optimistic scenario the world is short of 3 million barrels a day.
This is not about India, it is about Russia and pressure on it to make a deal on Ukraine. India just happens to be the malleable entity at this time. Price of not having enough leverage and/or not willing to hit back. For all we know the monkey and the bear would be smoking cigars in a week. India has to play this deftly. Not principled, but sly and serve its interests - which are fungible in days, weeks and years. The above MEA statement is a principled one - not sure if it will get India to the goal post.
Let Trump do what he is saying. Who said India does not have leverage? We usually don't reveal our cards in public. This is not real estate negotiations. India will have to stand the ground and see to it that Trumps tactics does not work. We don't need to be abrasive but cannot bend over backward for this buffoon.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ricky_v »

imo, india is baiting trump, to what avail i do not know, they could have gone ahead with what piyush goyal said in the ls, multiple committees are formed, technical details are being reviewed, we hope to have strategic alignment soon, you know, all that fluff

this puts our word out, sure, but to a doomscroller like trump, it might come off as just a bit smarmy, and thus invite a reaction, judging by his recent belligerence, nothing pleasing
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Whether it is about India or about Russia, the world economy will have a major crisis if nobody can buy Russian oil.
In summary, the elimination of Russian oil from the global market would create a severe and immediate supply deficit. This would lead to a dramatic increase in oil prices, intense competition for remaining supplies, and potential energy shortages. The long-term effects would include accelerated inflation, a possible global economic downturn, and a reshuffling of geopolitical alliances as countries seek to secure their energy needs.
1. Trump has not targeted the European Union or China (China has even more trade and energy imports from Russia than India).

2. Russia can shutdown the Caspian pipeline which transits Russia and which carries Kazakhstan oil, 1% of world supply, exacerbating world supply shortages. Plus American companies have a major share in that oil.

3. Trump can shield his voter base from an oil shock only by exerting export and price controls on domestically produced oil. But that would fly in the face of his demand that countries buy more American oil.

I conclude that Russia has a lot of leverage in this matter; they may go down but can take down the world economy, including the US economy, with them. I doubt that TACO Trump will risk this. Therefore all this Trump BS is specifically targeting India. I don’t see how one can draw any other conclusion- but am glad to hear arguments to the contrary.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Very strange that the very same BRF members who are ignoring posts made by a few, are making ill-thought conjectures and asking for counter arguments. It boggles the mind that they think that their yes cabal would actually come up with counter arguments at the risk of being cancelled.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

ricky_v wrote: 04 Aug 2025 23:55 imo, india is baiting trump, to what avail i do not know, they could have gone ahead with what piyush goyal said in the ls, multiple committees are formed, technical details are being reviewed, we hope to have strategic alignment soon, you know, all that fluff

this puts our word out, sure, but to a doomscroller like trump, it might come off as just a bit smarmy, and thus invite a reaction, judging by his recent belligerence, nothing pleasing




ricky_v ji,

The canucks are screwing trumpwa like there is no tomorrow. They have completely blindsided him in this so called tariff war


India is doing the same thing but is using a different set of tactics


Modi ji is not talking to him and trumpwa simply doesn't have the testimonials to pick up the phone and dial dilli. The realization that he has needlessly pissed off India has hit him hard and the amriki strategy in the Indo pacific is in shreds


the world is slowly ganging up on the amrikis for selfishly messing up their lives, and with christmas and the cold approaching, things may get a lot worse before they got better.


Modi ji (and India) was one genuine bright spot in his limited vision and he's gone and wantonly pissed it all away that


The phrase "the ugly american" comes to mind ............ :mrgreen:
Last edited by chetak on 05 Aug 2025 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ShauryaT »

A_Gupta wrote: 05 Aug 2025 00:27Therefore all this Trump BS is specifically targeting India. I don’t see how one can draw any other conclusion- but am glad to hear arguments to the contrary.
Russian oil which was not an issue till a few weeks back is now a major issue. Steve Witkoff is planning to be in Russia next week on Russia's invitation. Threat of force has not worked on Russia, Sanctions have not this is one more way to squeeze Russia to give in on the Ukrainian front and settle. Trump will beat up who thinks he can, Brazil, India, South Africa. China and Russia he is more careful. He is on record for not liking BRICS And this is his attempt to break it. Not the reality I prefer, but the reality how I assess it. :(

Also, you never know, GoI might be willing to play this Trump game?? Pure speculation.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vera_k »

This latest bit looks to be a fight between Donald bhai and Mukesh bhai. India and USA along for the ride.
Did Mukesh get richer than Donald perhaps by re-exporting Russian oil?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

ShauryaT wrote: 05 Aug 2025 00:40
A_Gupta wrote: 05 Aug 2025 00:27Therefore all this Trump BS is specifically targeting India. I don’t see how one can draw any other conclusion- but am glad to hear arguments to the contrary.
Russian oil which was not an issue till a few weeks back is now a major issue. Steve Witkoff is planning to be in Russia next week on Russia's invitation. Threat of force has not worked on Russia, Sanctions have not this is one more way to squeeze Russia to give in on the Ukrainian front and settle. Trump will beat up who thinks he can, Brazil, India, South Africa. China and Russia he is more careful. He is on record for not liking BRICS And this is his attempt to break it. Not the reality I prefer, but the reality how I assess it. :(

Also, you never know, GoI might be willing to play this Trump game?? Pure speculation.

No ShauryaT ji, India will not play ball now, because he has deliberately and malevolently caused serious loss of face to big guns in India. It was his geopolitical intention to do so, besides the personal angle because of Modi ji's polite defiance

this guy has stepped on too many Indian toes, openly supported the pakis, and is attempting to rehyphenate Indo pak just to give the pakis a happy ending

The QUAD may be pushed to the cold backburner just to ensure that some stooopide people feel the pain
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Apologies if I am turning this into an AI test.

Google Gemini tells me:

Based on recent statements and actions, the current US administration is actively pressuring the following countries over their trade with Russia:

Countries facing pressure over trade with Russia:

India

China

Brazil

Turkey

Vietnam

Thailand

The administration has not been as vocal about or is largely ignoring the trade with Russia of several other countries, which include some European Union members.

Countries whose trade with Russia is being largely ignored:

Slovakia

Hungary

Germany

Italy

The United Arab Emirates

Uzbekistan
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

By the same token, the pressure on India re: trade with Russia came out of nowhere. India has been buying & re-exporting Russian energy for years now, including several months of Trump's own second term, without a peep from Washington.

Which makes me all the more certain that the current drama of secondary penalties is a test of will, nothing more. If India kept buying as much oil from Russia but switched from other (Gulf) suppliers to the US as a source... or for that matter if India ordered a 100-odd F15-ex or F21s for the IAF... Trump would forget all about the supposed harm that India-Russia trade causes the Ukrainians.

Case in point: all the above "ignored" offenders except Uzbekistan are either NATO countries or in UAE's case, another sort of American protectorate.

This isn't about fair trading practices or equalizing deficits, it's only about the willingness to swap the prerogatives of national sovereignty for subjugation to US dominion. For India, that's a total nonstarter.

Expect things to get worse before they get better. At the same time, Trump will make critical errors sooner rather than later with this approach as he tries it in more & more theatres of interest. There was a reason why America went about its empire-management under a mask of globalist benevolence from the post-Vietnam era onwards, and Trump will soon find out why.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

Vayutuvan wrote: 04 Aug 2025 23:06
ShauryaT wrote: 04 Aug 2025 22:52 ...MEA statement is a principled one - not sure if it will get India to the goal post.
It has to be said at least once. That will set the stage for give and take in the negotiations going forward. My guess is that EU/US hypocrisy is out there for all to see. Global south believes India more than EU/US. That has been quite obvious when our MP delegations reached out to the world.

The above memo is an indication that India can give back as good as it gets.


Vayutuvan ji,


It's diplomatese for f o.


nothing more, nothing less


The word "negotiation" has neither been vocalized, and nor has it been implied.


Never disturb an enemy when he is making a mistake
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

chetak wrote: 05 Aug 2025 01:25 The word "negotiation" has neither been vocalized, and nor has it been implied.
Never disturb an enemy when he is making a mistake
:twisted: Good one. My feeling is that American Big Business wants Democrats back. They are cheaper to buy. Sona bandar wants big bucks - gold plated aircraft and such. I am sure Medvedev's X post has been noted by leaders all over the world - the one about Mossad being not the only only one who can squeeze testimonials of the bandar in the Epstein affair.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Trump sees tariffs as a fine paid by the exporter country. The higher the tariff, the more the fine.

Apart from not realizing that tariff is paid by the importer, Trump does not realize that once the tariff he imposes is high enough to make some goods uncompetitive in the American market, further increase in tariff is meaningless.

But it is not just Trump that is clueless. A bunch of otherwise shrewd Gujju businessmen types that are huge Trump admirers had this crazy idea about how tariffs work - say an item of $100 comes into the US from China with a $30 tariff. It will sit on the shelf of an American retailer, and remain unsold if an American producer can sell at a price of $120. Let’s say the American producer can produce at $140 only. Trump will give them $20 of the tariff and $10 the Federal government will keep. The Chinese good will sit on the shelf or be sent back to China.

This learned theorist could not answer why any more Chinese goods would be imported to keep the $30 tariff revenue stream going to in turn give the American manufacturer their $20 for each item produced. A bit stunned by the question.

These don’t tangle with me much more, but latest was “we like how Trump is flexing American muscle”.

I can vaguely grasp MAGA love of Trump; he is giving them back the racial & religious hierarchy of the 1950s. I simply can’t understand how any desi can be taken in by this BS artist for more than five minutes. My conspiracy theory is that there is something in the food or water that a lot of people are susceptible to that makes them dumb.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Rudradev wrote: 05 Aug 2025 01:24 Which makes me all the more certain that the current drama of secondary penalties is a test of will, nothing more. If India kept buying as much oil from Russia but switched from other (Gulf) suppliers to the US as a source...
Yesterday I heard on one of the news channels on Samsung Plus that India has turned back several tankers from Russia in the last week or two as our refineries do not have any more capacity to store the crude.

If so, then there is one more twist to the plot.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Here is an item from US News and World report

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/ar ... yt-reports
India to Maintain Russian Oil Imports Despite Trump Threats, Government Sources Say
By Reuters Aug. 2, 2025, at 4:41 a.m.

...
But while the Indian government may not be deterred by Trump's threats, sources told Reuters this week that Indian state refiners stopped buying Russian oil after July discounts narrowed to their lowest since 2022 - when sanctions were first imposed on Moscow - due to lower Russian exports and steady demand.

Indian Oil Corp, Hindustan Petroleum Corp, Bharat Petroleum Corp and Mangalore Refinery Petrochemical Ltd have not sought Russian crude in the past week or so, four sources told Reuters.
...
But then one of the reporters is Sivam Patel.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Tanaji »

A_Gupta wrote: 05 Aug 2025 01:46 Trump sees tariffs as a fine paid by the exporter country. The higher the tariff, the more the fine.

Apart from not realizing that tariff is paid by the importer, Trump does not realize that once the tariff he imposes is high enough to make some goods uncompetitive in the American market, further increase in tariff is meaningless.
I realise that this is the popular narrative that Trump doesn’t understand how tariffs work, but I refuse to believe that anyone is that clueless. Trump has non stupid members in his staff- they would point it out even in the unlikely scenario that Trump is stupid.

No, the better explanation is that the tariff war is a part of a strategy driven either by ideology that inflation is an acceptable risk to rid the US of cheap Chinese goods dependency or someone is trying to make lots of money by gaming the market fluctuations each announcement brings or both…

Either way there are no stupid people around …
Last edited by Tanaji on 05 Aug 2025 03:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Tanaji wrote: 05 Aug 2025 02:18 No, the better explanation is that the tariff war is a part of a strategy driven either by ideology that inflation is an acceptable risk to rid the US of cheap Chinese goods dependency or someone is trying to make lots of money by gaming the market fluctuations each announcement brings or both
This. My bets are on this - dollars to donuts.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

In Telugu, there is a saying swamy kaaryamu tana kaaryamu, i.e. Acting once to serve master's interests as well as one's own interests. In Organizational Behavioralist jargon it is called Management by Objective.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Tanaji wrote: 05 Aug 2025 02:18 No, the better explanation is that the tariff war is a part of a strategy driven either by ideology that inflation is an acceptable risk to rid the US of cheap Chinese goods dependency or someone is trying to make lots of money by gaming the market fluctuations each announcement brings or both…

Either way there are no stupid people around …
Maybe there are no stupid people around, and my senses are deceiving me.

But explain to me the point of "500% tariffs". If imports from a country become unviable at say, 75%, what additional impact does a 500% tariff have? It is like saying "I will kill you twenty times". Once is more than enough, no?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by pravula »

Vayutuvan wrote: 05 Aug 2025 01:48
Rudradev wrote: 05 Aug 2025 01:24 Which makes me all the more certain that the current drama of secondary penalties is a test of will, nothing more. If India kept buying as much oil from Russia but switched from other (Gulf) suppliers to the US as a source...
Yesterday I heard on one of the news channels on Samsung Plus that India has turned back several tankers from Russia in the last week or two as our refineries do not have any more capacity to store the crude.

If so, then there is one more twist to the plot.
That’s not how tankers work. They have been used during Covid times to store excess oil
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by skumar »

Welcome statement from MEA.

Par yeh dil maange more. Would have ideally liked to see something more -
  • Bring Pakistan into the picture and say that it is surprising to see the US making deals with countries supporting terrorism.
  • Drive the knife deeper about hypocrisy with something like "It is difficult to see how Indian purchases of Russian energy finance the war but US and EU purchases don't."
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

pravula wrote: 05 Aug 2025 04:17 That’s not how tankers work. They have been used during Covid times to store excess oil
Oh Nice. Good catch.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

https://apnews.com/article/state-depart ... d0995d7509
WASHINGTON (AP) — The State Department is proposing requiring applicants for business and tourist visas to post a bond of up to $15,000 to enter the United States, a move that may make the process unaffordable for many.

In a notice to be published in the Federal Register on Tuesday, the department said it would start a 12-month pilot program under which people from countries deemed to have high overstay rates and deficient internal document security controls could be required to post bonds of $5,000, $10,000 or $15,000 when they apply for a visa.

....
The bond would not apply to citizens of countries enrolled in the Visa Waiver Program, which enables travel for business or tourism for up to 90 days. The majority of the 42 countries enrolled in the program are in Europe, with others in Asia, the Middle East and elsewhere.
I believe India is one of the "high overstay rate" countries, but have no confirmation.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by gakakkad »

A_Gupta wrote: 05 Aug 2025 05:34 https://apnews.com/article/state-depart ... d0995d7509
WASHINGTON (AP) — The State Department is proposing requiring applicants for business and tourist visas to post a bond of up to $15,000 to enter the United States, a move that may make the process unaffordable for many.

In a notice to be published in the Federal Register on Tuesday, the department said it would start a 12-month pilot program under which people from countries deemed to have high overstay rates and deficient internal document security controls could be required to post bonds of $5,000, $10,000 or $15,000 when they apply for a visa.

....
The bond would not apply to citizens of countries enrolled in the Visa Waiver Program, which enables travel for business or tourism for up to 90 days. The majority of the 42 countries enrolled in the program are in Europe, with others in Asia, the Middle East and elsewhere.
I believe India is one of the "high overstay rate" countries, but have no confirmation.
India is not high overstay. Overstay rates are comparable to visa waiver program countries and among the lowest in the world.


https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files ... 3-Data.pdf

There are so many negative things about India that we assume to be true but are completely false .worst of all even well meaning Indians inadvertently propagate such stuff .
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »


There are so many negative things about India that we assume to be true but are completely false .worst of all even well meaning Indians inadvertently propagate such stuff .
Thanks! @Gakkakad - though I did not assume; I relied on AI, and it told me (now obviously hallucinating on one point - ) My prompt was about high visa overstay rates.
Yes, India is known for a high number of visa overstays in the U.S., particularly among student and exchange visitors, though the total numbers vary by year. In 2023, for example, India had the highest number of student and exchange visitor visa overstays, with over 7,000 individuals.
The link you provided had 7,081 overstays for India by non-immigrant students and exchange visitors (Table 4) which is indeed the highest absolute number (the next largest is 5,255 from China)>. But yes, in terms of overstay rates as a percentage, it is not high compared to the rest, and that was the AI hallucination, or answering something different from what was asked, which I should have caught.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Bharadwaj »

Suspend all delivery clearances for Boeing aircraft to Indian companies. Get the rostec 177s tot as a back up. It will require a new design of fighter aircraft but we need to be ready for all consequences. Trump does not seem to realise how deeply his company is invested in the Indian market. Let Don jr know Lindsey Graham's antics in his Father's ear will have consequences well after 2029. We need to have a long term trading relationship with the U.S but not at such a high price.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by gakakkad »

Unfortunately most language models have a subtle anti India bias . Cannot emphasize enough the need for having indigenous models . The ones out there aren't too bad . Just need people to use them . They'll get better of people use them . Unfortunately they don't .
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Rudradev »

gakakkad wrote: 05 Aug 2025 05:50
A_Gupta wrote: 05 Aug 2025 05:34 https://apnews.com/article/state-depart ... d0995d7509


I believe India is one of the "high overstay rate" countries, but have no confirmation.
India is not high overstay. Overstay rates are comparable to visa waiver program countries and among the lowest in the world.


https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files ... 3-Data.pdf
Trump's targeting of Indians by gouging them with excessive visa application fees is very straightforwardly based on three things:

1) Trump's political support base IS racist white people for whom targeted persecution of non-whites is an end in itself. Extracting jizya from Indians is as much a part of this as forcibly deporting anyone who looks like a Latino with indigenous blood (regardless of actual immigration status).

2) Indians are known to have money and to submit quietly when mugged/robbed. If a student's hopes, aspirations, and remitted tuition fees are held to ransom, the Hindu parent will pay without complaint to secure the visa on which it all depends; likewise, a business owner will shell out with fatalism to preserve his/her business opportunities rather than try to hire lawyers and fight the extortion in court.

3) There are in fact a large number of Indian businesspersons and students who try to go to the United States compared to citizens of many other countries. So Trump either makes money through the flagrant extortion of these people or discourages them from showing their brown faces in the US at all-- a win-win from his point of view.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Prem Kumar »

I was having a casual conversation with some Indian parents about the *proposed bond* to prevent overstaying, i.e. $1500 or something that will be refunded only if they returned within the 6 month visitor visa window

Some of them casually stated that people will not mind forgoing the amount if they wanted to stay longer

Not only are these people talking from a position of wealth, but the nonchalance shocked me. Most of us don't seem to have "stomach for the fight" (i.e. fight via lawsuits against discrimination, organize ourselves better, hire lobbyists, get Congressmen/Senators on our side etc). More dangerously, we don't realize that we are frogs being slowly cooked

Hinduphobia & anti-Indian racism seem to be the most acceptable form of hatred in the US these days. What was beneath the surface is out in full pride & glory

I fear the day when things come to a pass, like the Japanese internment camps. Our folks will wake up that day
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Manish_P »

Looks like the targets have been identified and marked..

15 ‘oligarch billionaires’ run India: Ex-Trump negotiator Lighthizer on why he failed with New Delhi
As US President Donald Trump has again threatened to raise tariffs on India supposedly for its Russian oil purchase, it’s instructive to see what former US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, who set Trump’s trade agenda and negotiated with India, had to say in a 2023 book.

Lighthizer writes in No Trade is Free that he would try to predict India’s position in talks by tracking the interests of its 15 billionaires or “oligarchs who ran the country”, giving a rare insider’s peek into how the US President’s India policy has unfolded over his two terms.

“When I was in negotiations with Indian officials, I kept a copy of the biography of each of the country’s fifteen or so billionaires on my desk. In predicting Indian government positions, I would look to the interests of these men,” Lighthizer wrote in his book, which was published in 2023.

He referred to these billionaires as “oligarchs” and said it was unusual in the extent to which they “influence government policy” in India. The 77-year-old also said that India “suffered from an extremely strong professional bureaucracy” in all areas of government. :mrgreen:

“I can remember at one point telling an Indian friend of mine who had made a fortune in business that I thought there were fifteen oligarchs who basically ran the country. He corrected me. ‘Bob, you’re wrong. Only about seven of them actually run the country. The others just try to influence the seven’,” Lighthizer wrote in the book, which has an entire chapter dedicated to India.
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chetak
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by chetak »

Manish_P wrote: 05 Aug 2025 12:37 Looks like the targets have been identified and marked..

15 ‘oligarch billionaires’ run India: Ex-Trump negotiator Lighthizer on why he failed with New Delhi
As US President Donald Trump has again threatened to raise tariffs on India supposedly for its Russian oil purchase, it’s instructive to see what former US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, who set Trump’s trade agenda and negotiated with India, had to say in a 2023 book.

Lighthizer writes in No Trade is Free that he would try to predict India’s position in talks by tracking the interests of its 15 billionaires or “oligarchs who ran the country”, giving a rare insider’s peek into how the US President’s India policy has unfolded over his two terms.

“When I was in negotiations with Indian officials, I kept a copy of the biography of each of the country’s fifteen or so billionaires on my desk. In predicting Indian government positions, I would look to the interests of these men,” Lighthizer wrote in his book, which was published in 2023.

He referred to these billionaires as “oligarchs” and said it was unusual in the extent to which they “influence government policy” in India. The 77-year-old also said that India “suffered from an extremely strong professional bureaucracy” in all areas of government. :mrgreen:

“I can remember at one point telling an Indian friend of mine who had made a fortune in business that I thought there were fifteen oligarchs who basically ran the country. He corrected me. ‘Bob, you’re wrong. Only about seven of them actually run the country. The others just try to influence the seven’,” Lighthizer wrote in the book, which has an entire chapter dedicated to India.
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Manish ji,

It looks like trumpwa's wild mood swings, hormonal imbalances as evidenced by his tenuous grip on reality, and the almost daily geopolitical tantrums, including unpredictability, and the rapidly unravelling trust factor is like he is perpetually in a state of the male version of the PMS

before anyone bites my head off, there is andropause and also the lesser known phenomenon of IMS


When it comes to hormonal mood swings and irritability, the term “PMS” often conjures images of women navigating the turbulent waters of premenstrual syndrome. However, gentlemen, it's time to introduce you to a lesser-known but equally significant phenomenon: Irritable Male Syndrome (IMS)


BTW, there is a young old man in India who's usual unsavory behaviour may merit serious medical investigation

trumpwa's delusions of grandeur fuelled by his over blown sense of narcissism that has led to schizophrenic compulsions. Remember, this is a man who has his finger on the nuclear trigger and the other side has an automated second strike capability (called the Dead Hand system) that will launch, no matter who is dead
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Dilbu »

The United States Is Losing India
In 2019, U.S. President Donald Trump stood alongside Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the “Howdy Modi” rally in Houston. The atmosphere was electric. Indian Americans cheered, and New Delhi appeared fully invested in the Trump presidency. Trump’s popularity in India eclipsed that of his successor Joe Biden and even Biden’s vice president, Kamala Harris, who is herself of Indian ancestry. Trump’s re-election in 2024 thus seemed like the beginning of a new, stronger chapter in India-U.S. relations.

That chapter is now closing fast. India is beginning to question the value of its strategic alignment with Washington. And the United States is handing it every reason to do so.
On July 25, when U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio met Pakistan’s Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar in Washington to discuss trade and critical minerals, New Delhi took notice. This was not the first time a high-level engagement with Pakistan had stirred unease in India. But the timing, messaging, and broader context made this moment impossible to ignore. Why, many in New Delhi asked, would Washington deepen ties with a country that actively undermines India’s security, especially after decades of painstaking work to build India-U.S. relations?

Worse still, Trump’s renewed talk of mediating between India and Pakistan, including on the Kashmir dispute, has reopened old wounds. India has long maintained that Kashmir and other sensitive issues must be handled bilaterally. Any interference, no matter how well-intentioned, is seen as a breach of sovereignty.

Trump’s talk of mediation thus sends a clear message to India that its core concerns are negotiable. If Washington is serious about deepening ties with India, such comments are at best a diplomatic misstep and at worst strategic self-sabotage on a grand scale.
Pakistan’s sponsorship of cross-border terrorism is a direct national security threat for India Any United States administration that ignores this point is guilty of diplomatic negligence. India does not ask for unconditional alignment, only consistency and respect for its core interests from the United States.

This indifference is especially jarring now that India is recalibrating its foreign policy. No longer shielded by nonalignment, India has leaned into pragmatic engagement with the West. New Delhi has joined frameworks like the Quad, committed to expanding military exercises like Malabar, and demonstrated readiness to share responsibility in the Indo-Pacific. India is doing its part, but partnerships cannot be one-sided.

Trump’s mixed signals and public overtures to Pakistan are actively undermining India-U.S. ties, to unclear ends. Pakistan is economically fragile, politically volatile, and increasingly tethered to China. India, by contrast, brings capacity, credibility, and the geopolitical leverage needed to shape Asia’s balance of power.

By engaging Pakistan – a state firmly within Beijing’s orbit – and wavering on India’s core concerns, the United States is weakening trust and undermining the very alliances and partnerships it claims to prioritize. The United States must decide if it wants a steady, forward-looking partner in India or a string of transactional dealings with Pakistan that only breed mistrust.


India is managing a delicate and high-stakes relationship with China, and despite this challenge, it remains committed to regional stability, alongside Australia and Japan. Yet none of these countries can uphold the Indo-Pacific vision alone while Washington continues to send conflicting signals. U.S. inconsistency hands Beijing a strategic advantage. It allows China to appear more predictable and, at times, more reasonable in contrast.
The original rationale for closer India-U.S. ties was straightforward: India is the only democratic power in Asia with the capacity to balance China’s growing assertiveness. That rationale still holds true, and the need is more pressing than ever. Beijing is stepping up pressure on Taiwan. The South China Sea remains volatile. The regional balance is shifting. Washington cannot afford to sideline its trusted partner in Asia, lest it weaken the Indo-Pacific framework from the inside out.

As India and Pakistan traded strikes in early May U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance said of the conflict, “It’s none of our business.” If the Trump administration still holds this view – that what happens in South Asia is of no concern – then the United States should step aside.

If the Trump administration does envision a role for itself in the region, then now is the moment to demonstrate that the United States sees India as more than a convenient partner. The Trump administration must clarify its long-term priorities. India is an indispensable and equal partner, and must be treated as such. Doing otherwise risks damaging a partnership that may never fully recover. Rebuilding trust will take decades; influencing India’s increasingly confident strategic autonomy will be even harder.

Ignoring India’s concerns not only jeopardizes the bilateral partnership but also strengthens voices within India that argue the West cannot be trusted. As it stands now, the Trump administration is giving those voices every reason to say, “We told you so!”
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

To balance China, it would be good strategy for the US to compete with China for influence in Pakistan.

Leaving Pakistan completely in the China camp is likely a bad strategic choice.

Presumably there is a good way of achieving this strategic objective and many bad ways. It does seem Trump & co are doing it in the worst possible way with the worst possible timing.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

A_Gupta wrote: 05 Aug 2025 17:59 To balance China, it would be good strategy for the US to compete with China for influence in Pakistan.

Leaving Pakistan completely in the China camp is likely a bad strategic choice.

Presumably there is a good way of achieving this strategic objective and many bad ways. It does seem Trump & co are doing it in the worst possible way with the worst possible timing.
I do agree. Pak has been a sinkhole/liability for anyone that was foolish enough to cultivate it. So if both China and USA are doing something in Pak, it can only lead to very poor outcomes for both, and will be to our benefit. The days of worrying about Pak terror apparatus being fueled by other powers are over - we will simply annihilate these elements and create immense havoc deep inside Pak territory. As Modi said: "Pak ke logon - roti khao, chain se raho...aur meri goli to hai hi." It is a permanent feature just like Sindoor on the forehead.
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