Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[pravula]

So, let go of whats in hand and wait on the two in the bush?

[Cybaru]

India clears Rs 62,000 crore deal to buy 97 LCA Mark 1A fighter jets

https://x.com/ani_digital/status/195782 ... 19560?s=46

I would like this order to be split in to two, 50 MK1A & 47 MK2.

-Ankit

This buying channa by the kilo mentality is everywhere!

[vijayk]

https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1957625008638828944

Godrej Aerospace is Leading Advocate to locally develop a 90kN engine for the Tejas MkII Program. Godrej Aerospace is Production partner of the Kaveri Derivate Engine (KDE) .

[pravula]

To really take off, Godrej also needs a production order for an airframe (UCAV or even a UAV)

[Aditya_V]

I would like this order to be split in to two, 50 MK1A & 47 MK2.

-Ankit

This buying channa by the kilo mentality is everywhere!

+1, You want Factories built and supplier ecosystem to be set up- material procurement right up to the Ore for metals, this buyer is always right- then try getting an Airbus or Boeing- truth is in many cases for big items supplier is king, you can bargain with vegetable vendors but rarely with Jewelry shops or Builders.

Buy now we should realize we need an Aviation industry right from Ores to Metal, software to develop Basic trainers, Intermediate trainers, Advance Jet trainers, Transport Aircraft and related refueler, Awacs, Istar, Bomber, 3 types of fighter aircraft- only then you get the independence to develop.

Otherwise you can be Dubai or Singapore- the powers that be have huge influence here. Mk1A in numbers is the Prithvi for our aviation industry

[ashishvikas]

India clears Rs 62,000 crore deal to buy 97 LCA Mark 1A fighter jets

https://x.com/ani_digital/status/195782 ... 19560?s=46

I would like this order to be split in to two, 50 MK1A & 47 MK2.

-Ankit

Only thing we should focus is - how quickly we can produce them and hopefully engines can come quick enough.. may be 24-30/year.

[uddu]

Since GE is saying 2 engines per month for the first lot, it must now increase to 4 per month and about 48 per year.

[Yagnasri]

The only viable option is to go for Kaveri 2.0 on our own. The rest of the M88s and RD33s, etc, are not going to give a solution to the problem which has been there since the time of Marut.

[uddu]

The only viable option is to go for Kaveri 2.0 on our own. The rest of the M88s and RD33s, etc, are not going to give a solution to the problem which has been there since the time of Marut.

The one and only True Solution. Kaveri 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 is the way forward.
Ladli Engine Yojana

[eklavya]

ET:
Centre approves ₹62,000-crore order for 97 LCA Mk1A fighters, giving IAF a major boost

The order, valued at ₹62,000 crore, will take the total number of LCA Mk1A fighters in the air force to 180, adding to an earlier order of 83 that is in the process of being delivered. Sources said that the final clearances have been given by the government and the formal contract would soon be inked with HAL.

The latest version of the fighter jets will be manufactured at two production lines in Bengaluru and Nashik. The plan is to ramp up production capacity to deliver 24 jets on an annual basis in the coming years.

[maitya]

The only viable option is to go for Kaveri 2.0 on our own. The rest of the M88s and RD33s, etc, are not going to give a solution to the problem which has been there since the time of Marut.

Right ... however these 97 will not be in production atleast until 2029, so this window gives us the opportunity to negotiate Lic Mfg of F404 (post the current lot are delivered). I'm sure GE will ask for a steep price, if not outrightly reject (as the have re-started a shut-down production line and the entire Supplier ecosystem, after all) - but not sure what other option do we have, except for trying for it.

Yet to be developed alternatives like Kaveri 2 or M88-3 (M88-2 won't work out for Mk1/MK1A) would take a minm 5+ years (actually more), so the only option left is F404, I'm afraid.
But either way, we need to develop Kaveri-II at any cost, as requirement for engines of this class will not end with delivery of last MK1A from this lot.

Prodding along and avoiding taking such decisions is just deferring the problem that we're facing today - it won't go away on its own!!

[Kartik]

India clears Rs 62,000 crore deal to buy 97 LCA Mark 1A fighter jets

https://x.com/ani_digital/status/195782 ... 19560?s=46

I would like this order to be split in to two, 50 MK1A & 47 MK2.

-Ankit

While such things seem very sensible, the procurement part of it is going to be impossible to do. The processes for procuring are such that no such split will be possible. This deal has been going through all the hoops for nearly 2 years now. Trying to amend it to split it (which would have been sensible) between Mk1A and Mk2 will however jeopardize the entire deal as such. HAL will need to order long lead items, negotiate a new deal with GE for more F-404IN20s, so they can't afford to delay it.

[uddu]

We are so short of aircrafts, forget about splitting, better is to add 97 more to the upcoming MK2 order.

[skumar]

If this problem with the US had started in 2014 and I hope it did, we would probably have our own jet engines by now.

Why do we need a kick to realize reality and our own national interests?

[Cain Marko]

If this problem with the US had started in 2014 and I hope it did, we would probably have our own jet engines by now.

Why do we need a kick to realize reality and our own national interests?

A kick? Saar arguably first kick was delivered in 1998, right in the nuts.

[Vayutuvan]

A kick? Saar arguably first kick was delivered in 1998, right in the nuts.

When was the Cryo engine was denied to India by Russia after US whispered sweet nothings in soviet ears? I forget was it during Yeltsin or before?

[Kakkaji]

Even after contracts are signed with GE for engines for the new batch of 97 LCA Mk1A, I think India should simultaneously start working with France to integrate the new version of M88 that the French say can substitute for GE F404 in this aircraft. It may take 2-3 years to integrate and certify this engine in the Mk1A, but from that point on the supply line will be secure with all engines for new aircraft as well as replacements coming from France.

I don't think that GE will be allowed, during the Trump administration, to sign any contracts to build aero engines in India. So, better to get substitutes ready ASAP even if the French charge an arm and a leg. Otherwise, the whole indigenous fighters program will come to a halt.

JMHO.

[Cain Marko]

A kick? Saar arguably first kick was delivered in 1998, right in the nuts.

When was the Cryo engine was denied to India by Russia after US whispered sweet nothings in soviet ears? I forget was it during Yeltsin or before?

During baywda Yeltsins time iirc

[Yogi_G]

A kick? Saar arguably first kick was delivered in 1998, right in the nuts.

When was the Cryo engine was denied to India by Russia after US whispered sweet nothings in soviet ears? I forget was it during Yeltsin or before?

In Yelstin's years. Yelstin also had the gall to call India and expedite payments for the Sukhoi to make payroll for factories in his main vote base. The same vote base which ensured he was able to rise after the humiliation Gorbachev meted on him. In the older days, Soviet leaders wud have gulag'ed the likes of Yelstin, since it was Gorbachev he spared him, only to have fed a snake!

[Aditya_V]

Regarding 97Mk1A and Modi Independence speech, just like many programs like ABM program before 2006, Brahmos, Agni series claimed to be Abandoned in the 1990's - I suspect we have finalized an alternative, either it is KDE, Russian or French we will know soon, I suspect KDE. it does not make sense to order 97 more aircraft when GE is unable to deliver F404's for the 2020 order, F404 was cutting edge in 1987 , surely there are alternatives which we would have tested outside the Public domain, like many important programs some of this information will not be in the public domain till it is too late to stop.

[skumar]

If this problem with the US had started in 2014 and I hope it did, we would probably have our own jet engines by now.

Why do we need a kick to realize reality and our own national interests?

A kick? Saar arguably first kick was delivered in 1998, right in the nuts.

Sure, but the kick was delivered to someone else and there was no transference of pain.

[KSingh]

https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/195888 ... 23964?s=46

https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/195888 ... 65595?s=46

https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/195888 ... 79143?s=46

[KSingh]

....

No one has seen a mk2 yet. Who knows what improvements IAF will demand…

The design and spec have to be finalized. They are building prototypes.

Ex-IAF Chief Bhadauria has same view. (I think he is saying order of all 97 should go to Mk2)
-Ankit

What does this even mean? MK.2 is a paper plane as of now, giving ant orders means nothing, make it 500 and it won’t make the plane fly any sooner and the bigger issue is the F414 issue, there is a very real possibility it cannot progress with the kind of ideological trade policy being pursued at the top levels of the USG:

https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/195766 ... 20058?s=46


I really don’t understand this talk of splitting orders or diverting 97 additional MK1A to the MK.2, the Mk.2 won’t be production ready any earlier so numbers today are purely fictional and have been fluctuating over the years 201 became 120 and now they are talking 200 again?

https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/195783 ... 34619?s=46

The 97 order actually seems to be the perfect decision made with full pragmatism and forward thinking for once, the timing is spot on to keep the LCA program flowing right up to when we can hope the MK.2 is ready to enter series production.

https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/195872 ... 68914?s=46


A bird in the bush and all that, what India needs is massive production to create a deep ecosystem, the MK.2 will naturally benefit from that and then the AMCA, paper order numbers for something still 5+ years away change little. India doesn’t seem to do continuous production very often at scale so this is a genuine game changer

[Prem Kumar]

The same ex-IAF Chief wouldn't say Lets cancel MRFA & double the Tejas-Mk2 order - that would be blasphemy!

Its a fantastic decision to order 97 more Tejas-Mk1a - God bless Parikkar, Rajnath, the MoD babus & the IAF top brass who made this happen!

By the time Tejas-Mk2 is ready for mass-production, our economy will be so big that we should directly order 200 of it rather than 120 in first batch and 80 in the second

We will have enough money leftover to order 120 of AMCA-1 and 120 of AMCA-2 also

We should start thinking like a superpower and not penny-pinch

[ashishvikas]

I think, once Safran-GTRE engine deal is signed.. GE wouldn’t delay in any delivery. They would know, it’s their last bet to stay relevant in Indian Market.

[ashishvikas]

The same ex-IAF Chief wouldn't say Lets cancel MRFA & double the Tejas-Mk2 order - that would be blasphemy!

Its a fantastic decision to order 97 more Tejas-Mk1a - God bless Parikkar, Rajnath, the MoD babus & the IAF top brass who made this happen!

By the time Tejas-Mk2 is ready for mass-production, our economy will be so big that we should directly order 200 of it rather than 120 in first batch and 80 in the second

We will have enough money leftover to order 120 of AMCA-1 and 120 of AMCA-2 also

We should start thinking like a superpower and not penny-pinch

Ex-IAF Chief Bhadauria Is a Good Man. Very Respected.

He may have expressed his personal opinion which you and me don’t agree with, but definitely we are nothing in front of him.

[Rakesh]

On Page 1 of this very thread....

Quote below from Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Bhaduria (Retd.), former Chief of Air Staff - Indian Air Force
URL, 29 May 2020

Tejas today what you are getting is the BEST IN ITS CLASS IN THE WORLD.

Take my word for it.

But 5 years later, the script changes. All this talk of Mk1A should have been Mk2, is because the MRFA has not been sanctioned yet.

And the MRFA script has been going on for the past 25+ years. No Change.

[konaseema]

Any which way we slice and dice this, we will end up with anywhere between 4-6 squadrons of Rafale and around 6-10 squadrons of Tejas Mk2 with or with out GE-414 engines.

[Manish_P]

..
And the MRFA script has been going on for the past 25+ years. No Change.

Everyone doing the classic CYA (cover your ass) while trying to hedge their best only the late Shri Parrikar had the courage to take a stand. Then again I wonder if he did that knowing he didn't have much time anyway...

[ritesh]

..
And the MRFA script has been going on for the past 25+ years. No Change.

Everyone doing the classic CYA (cover your ass) while trying to hedge their best only the late Shri Parrikar had the courage to take a stand. Then again I wonder if he did that knowing he didn't have much time anyway...

The only thing holding back Mk1A being engine, I guess adding more numbers is the most realistic and feasible way to increase squadron strength.

Saam daam dand bhed, whatever is needed should be done to get GE to mfg its engine in large numbers, in India for India and World.

[Vayutuvan]

late Shri Parrikar had the courage to take a stand. Then again I wonder if he did that knowing he didn't have much time anyway...

As far as I know, he either did not have cancer or did not know that he had cancer when he started as the Minister of Defense.

[Rakesh]

Drag & Drop these photos into new window for FULL size.

From left to right in the photo below --->

• LA-5033 (first Mk1A airframe)
• LA-5034
• LA-5035 (no turbofan installed and no ejection seat installed)
• LA-5207 (twin seat Mk1 trainer destined for No 18 Squadron - the second Mk1 unit)
• LA-5208 (twin seat Mk1 trainer destined for No 18 Squadron - the second Mk1 unit)
• LA-5036 (no turbofan installed)
• LA-5037
• LA-5038

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1958871228912967715 ---> The Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence visited HAL facilities in Bengaluru today. The 10-member committee was led by its Chairman, Lok Sabha MP Shri Radha Mohan Singh. The committee was received by Dr. D. K. Sunil, CMD, HAL, along with the Directors & senior officials.



LT-5209, the first Mk1 twin seat trainer for the first Mk1A squadron.

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1958871235519037505 ---> The committee members visited Helicopter Division, LCA Tejas Division & Aircraft Division. HAL showcased a flying display of HAL fighter aircraft LCA Mk 1A, trainers Hindustan Turbo Trainer 40, Hindustan Jet Trainer ‘Yashas’ and Hawk-i, along with helicopters Dhruv ALH & Light Utility Helicopter.

[Rakesh]

The Mk1 itself should have been ordered in triple digits to begin with.
....
This follow-on tranche of 97 aircraft came about because squadrons are retiring much quicker than new inductions. And what would have been cheaper (economies of scale) with 180 Mk1As, will now be more expensive because we are now doing a whole separate order for 97 aircraft.

The Defence Ministry's biggest test after Operation Sindoor
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2025-08-21
12 August 2025

Take the example of the Tejas Mark 1A fighter jet. The IAF formally ordered the first batch of 83 Mark 1A in 2021. The order size was then increased to 180 aircraft. Ordering all 180 aircraft in one go would have brought in economies of scale, reducing the unit cost of the aircraft, allowing the manufacturers to establish multiple production lines to meet the demand and build up a steady production drumbeat.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ajaynewsman/status/1958344831299928134 ---> 97 additional Tejas Mk-1A okayed, now Onus is on plane-maker HAL to deliver on time. Speed of production will be decisive for IAF's battle-readiness.

[Rakesh]

From left to right in the photo below --->

• LA-5033 (first Mk1A airframe)
• LA-5034
• LA-5035 (no turbofan installed and no ejection seat installed)
• LA-5207 (twin seat Mk1 trainer destined for No 18 Squadron - the second Mk1 unit)
• LA-5208 (twin seat Mk1 trainer destined for No 18 Squadron - the second Mk1 unit)
• LA-5036 (no turbofan installed)
• LA-5037
• LA-5038

Another shot of LA-5036 with no turbofan...

Image Source: https://x.com/RaiReport/status/1958935964946243942

[Rakesh]

The design and spec have to be finalized. They are building prototypes.

Ex-IAF Chief Bhadauria has same view. (I think he is saying order of all 97 should go to Mk2)

https://x.com/arpitkanodia30/status/1959117259319763209 ---> There is a growing argument that India does not need the Tejas Mk1A and that funds should instead be directed toward the Tejas Mk2 program. Such reasoning borders on delusion. The reality is that the required funds for the Mk2 will not materialize until around 2030, and its full certification is unlikely before 2034.

https://x.com/arpitkanodia30/status/1959117262926799341 ---> To assume that India can afford to wait until 2030–34 to achieve the required capability is unrealistic. Neither Pakistan nor China will pause their own force development to accommodate such delays. The Tejas Mk1A is a highly capable 4.5-generation single-engine fighter, and platforms of this class are essential for Combat Air Patrol (CAP) and Barrier Combat Air Patrol (BARCAP) missions. It would be a waste of resources to expend the flight hours of Rafales and Su-30MKIs on such roles, as these aircraft should be preserved for high-end air supremacy missions.

https://x.com/arpitkanodia30/status/1959117266068402392 ---> The Tejas Mk1A is a highly optimized fighter for BARCAP missions—cost-effective, capable of generating high sortie rates, and fully integrated with the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS). This makes it a critical air component of India’s Integrated Air Defence System (IADS). What many fail to recognize is how essential this role is, and how decisive such integration can be for modern air combat effectiveness.

https://x.com/arpitkanodia30/status/1959117270313206076 ---> By 2050, India will require at least 60–70 combat squadrons to establish and maintain air dominance, not only over its own skies but across the broader South Asian region. Within such a force structure, there will be ample scope for the Tejas Mk2, with the potential to field at least 15–20 squadrons of this platform.

[Cybaru]

They all just want to delay things a much as possible. Hope it gets signed soon and chapter is closed.

[KSingh]

They all just want to delay things a much as possible. Hope it gets signed soon and chapter is closed.

Imagine if all these ‘experts’ were listened to over the years

Cancel MK.1 and move onto MK.2

Cancel additional MK1A and focus on MK.2

Cancel LCA and focus on MRFA+AMCA

Forget AMCA and go for emergency 5th gen

It’s very easy to make plans, execution is hard work. Execution is what India needs

[pravula]

They all just want to delay things a much as possible. Hope it gets signed soon and chapter is closed.

Imagine if all these ‘experts’ were listened to over the years

Cancel MK.1 and move onto MK.2

Cancel additional MK1A and focus on MK.2

Cancel LCA and focus on MRFA+AMCA

Forget AMCA and go for emergency 5th gen

It’s very easy to make plans, execution is hard work. Execution is what India needs

lol, execution comes later. Look at the new Naval utility heli: viewtopic.php?p=2657614#p2657614

They want something with "with 5 years minimum in service experience with foldable wings."

[LakshmanPST]

Regarding ACM Bhadauria's comments about order going to Mk2, instead of Mk1A, I'm quoting my old post from Dec 2023--->
viewtopic.php?p=2609681#p2609681
Requoting here--->

97 Tejas Mk1A order is being pushed only due to delay in Tejas Mk2... That's how I see it...
----
The previous timelines for Mk2 were
Roll-Out 2022
First Flight 2023
Production Ready 2026
Series Production delivery 2030

The above timeline coincided with last jet delivery of 83 Mk1A order, i.e. 2029...
Things looked perfectly in sync with one another...
----
Fast forward 2 years, we suddenly have news of 97 additional Tejas Mk1A jets and Tejas Mk2 timelines were shifted...

With 24 per year production rate, after including the new 97 jets order, the last Tejas Mk1A will be delivered only by 2032-33...
So, Tejas Mk2 SP jets will start coming out in atleast in 2033 only after Mk1A production ends... And that's the best case scenario...
So, the contract is to be signed by 2030, which would mean 1st flight of 2026 or 2027 only...
----
Back in 2021, in almost every HAL interview, HAL were pushing for Mk2 roll-Out date of Aug 2022... There were even reports that Production of Prototype even started...
Wonder why timelines were shifted south by 5 years...

----
- The original plan was 6 squadrons Mk1/1A and 10 squadrons Mk2...
- Mk2 was to be ready for production as soon as Mk1A production ends, so that there will be smooth transition of production lines without breaks...
- Shift in Mk2 timelines by 5 years would mean production lines will be idle for 3-4 years...
- So, 97 Mk1A ordered...
- However, they increased Mk1/1A numbers from 6 squadrons to 11 squadrons... Parallelly, they decreased Mk2 orders from 10 squadrons to 6 squadrons (from 200 to 120)...
- Hence, many in the air force and ex chief not happy...
----
Conspiracy Theory--->
1) Govt. always wanted more Mk1s from beginning itself...
2) But IAF wanted Mirage 2000 class, not MIG 21 class...
3) ADA/HAL proposed Mk2...
4) Some ppl in IAF/HAL/ADA asked Govt. to order only 4 Mk1A and presented an impossible timeline of 2022 roll-out and 2026 Production-ready Tejas Mk2...
5) They kept giving out fake dates like, 2021 metal-cutting started (multiple new articles/interviews), August 2022 rollout 100% confirm (Anantha Krishnan's interview of ADA engineers)...
6) Come 2022, timelines not met... Actual dates are 5 years down the line...
7) Govt. realized they were played... Probably angry behind the curtains...
8 )Forced Air Force to order 97 more based on actual dates of Tejas Mk2...
----
Note:- Even the ppl who praise Tejas Mk1/1A in public always use the words "it is best in its class"... It is diplomatic way of saying, "It is best in its class, but this is not the class we need..."
The Class IAF wants has always been Mirage 2000 Class, which is Tejas Mk2...