MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

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Manish_P
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Manish_P »

Bharadwaj wrote: 13 Sep 2025 06:27 Admiral thread ko band kar do..

Defence Ministry receives IAF's proposal for buying 114 'Made in India' Rafale fighter jets
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 912193232/
12 Sept 2025
And I propose new thread for next one - AMERICA -

Advanced Multirole Evading Radar Indigenous Combat Aircraft
Prem Kumar
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Prem Kumar »

$150 Million for Kaveri

But ...
$7 Billion for Safran
$25 Billion + for Rafale

We are not a poor nation. We are a nation that has no sense of purpose or self-confidence.
Rakesh
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Bharadwaj wrote: 13 Sep 2025 06:27 Admiral, thread ko band kar do..

Defence Ministry receives IAF's proposal for buying 114 'Made in India' Rafale fighter jets
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 912193232/
12 Sept 2025
Being discussed in detail over here ---> viewtopic.php?p=2659445#p2659445

And as for this thread, then how we can discuss import of yet another fighter? Please see below...

India Weighs Russian Su-57 Fighters as Fifth-Gen Option Ahead of Putin Visit
https://bharatshakti.in/india-weighs-ru ... tin-visit/
13 Sept 2025

======================================

The drums are being beaten for a 5th generation fighter i.e. Su-57. Only a proposal for 114 Rafales has gone to the MoD from Air HQ. It is now for the MoD to decide whether it makes sense to purchase 114 Rafales or take another route.
Hriday
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Hriday »

Several comments by Firestarter in X about the option of Rafale for the 114 MRCA order.
https://x.com/Firezstarter1/status/1967 ... c4PCA&s=19
GaN is a band aid for that limited aperture, ECCM improves but cant reverse range-detection adversity. A large PESA on a J20 can outlook the Rafale. Rafale still struggles to see frontal J20. Situation worsens if offboard sensors are used, even if Spectra defeats J20s radar.
It's not API alone. You need access to multiple systems including radar, mission computer, datalinks, structural capability, pylon control units/WIBS etc.
His suggestion,
Increase the IAF capex budget. Buy 2 squadrons of Rafale, 2-3 Su57. Integrate them to IACCS. Deconflict EW, accelerate Mk1A, Mk2, Su30 Upgrades and most importantly AMCA, Netra, engines, EW. Create a national anti-advanced targets/EW/ munitions effort to assist the shooters.
----------------------------------------
Comments by Alpha Defense on Rafale,
https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1967 ... NS_5Q&s=19
India signed the 36 Rafale deal in 2016. Nine years later, Rafales still lack the X-Guard we paid France to integrate. The perks of imports and our inability to question them.

9 Years :) justify that..
There’s no battle here, my friend. My simple point is this: I cannot justify defending a costlier import when key India-specific enhancements remain undelivered even after a decade. Saying this may not be popular, but it’s the truth.
Other than X-Guard is there any other important ISE that remains unfulfilled?
Look at the priorities: China has invested nearly $43 billion in its own engine program. Meanwhile, in India, we are busy defending a $30–40 billion import of 114 French jets, a platform with a decade-long track record of missing subsystems. I’m not insinuating anything; I’m just putting facts on the table.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Hriday wrote: 16 Sep 2025 19:36 Comments by Alpha Defense on Rafale...
Alpha Defense is full of horseshit. I called him out once before on X, he never replied.

Firestarter is saying the truth with regards to the 114 Rafale purchase.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Here we go...

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1967656108186800357 ---> When you are arguing that a 4.5 Gen Rafale doesn't makes sense now and we should rather go for a 5th Gen aircraft, then how come you justify Tejas Mk2 in 2032-33 before a 5th Gen AMCA by 2035, we should rather go directly for AMCA right, that too in huge number over Tejas Mk2 and put all our resources to that? Our personal view is both of these platforms have their specific roles and they will do good in parallel so we need both.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

https://x.com/ThatArticleGuy/status/1967763958514978851 ---> Since the Rafale debate is going on, then why:

- Waste funds in LCA Mk2? Su-30MKI with Brahmos will do.
- Waste funds in Nirbhay ALCM? Su-30MKI with Brahmos will do.
- Waste funds in Brahmos-NG? Su-30MKI with Brahmos will do.

See, it goes both ways...

#NoRafaleNoAMCA

https://x.com/AvisharDutta/status/1967956196285157390 ---> No Rafale, No AMCA? What is this now?

https://x.com/ThatArticleGuy/status/1967957008554078232 ---> Rafale deal is directly relates to the engine which will power AMCA!
Cain Marko
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Cain Marko »

Hriday wrote: 16 Sep 2025 19:36 Several comments by Firestarter in X about the option of Rafale for the 114 MRCA order.
https://x.com/Firezstarter1/status/1967 ... c4PCA&s=19
GaN is a band aid for that limited aperture, ECCM improves but cant reverse range-detection adversity. A large PESA on a J20 can outlook the Rafale. Rafale still struggles to see frontal J20. Situation worsens if offboard sensors are used, even if Spectra defeats J20s radar.
It's not API alone. You need access to multiple systems including radar, mission computer, datalinks, structural capability, pylon control units/WIBS etc.
His suggestion,
Increase the IAF capex budget. Buy 2 squadrons of Rafale, 2-3 Su57. Integrate them to IACCS. Deconflict EW, accelerate Mk1A, Mk2, Su30 Upgrades and most importantly AMCA, Netra, engines, EW. Create a national anti-advanced targets/EW/ munitions effort to assist the shooters.
💯 This is the way. The raffle cannot be bought in numbers. Too pricey.

We are back to m2k vs mig29, only this time a su57mki will be ahead on most parameters.
rajsunder
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by rajsunder »

Does the Top portion of the vertical tail contain Radar Elements?

This is from a diecast that I got. I have seen this on multiple diecast models from various vendors. The SU-57 is known to have radar elements located on the front of the cockpit on the fuselage. on the levcons and about 1/3rd of the leading wing edge is occupied by the radar element. on the front and back of the extreme ends of the wings. The last known radar element is on the extension that is between the engine exhausts.

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pravula
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by pravula »

Nothing is stopping them from shoving a receiver module there. But for using a VHF based anti stealth, that may not be distributed enough, unless it is tied into some dynamic SAR. The compute and bandwidth would be extrodinary...
LakshmanPST
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by LakshmanPST »

I believe the Su57 offer is just an offer from Russia, and is being heavily pushed in media by some vested interests...
There might be a group within IAF that is interested in this offer, but I don't think they are the ones making key decisions...
----
For mere 60 jets, Russia won't be offering any "TOT"... It has to be off-the-shelf purchase...
Su57 is a completely new jet for IAF... It is barely entering active service in Russian Air Force... Even if India signs a contract in 2-3 years, it will be atleast 5-6 years before the first jets are delivered... Add to it all the complexities of developing tactics, weapons integration etc.... We are looking at atleast 10 years before the jets can become fully operational...
If it has to have local production, it should receive all 114 jets order... Local production would mean heavy customization and all TOT negotiations and things will drag on for couple more years...
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The thing about Rafale is that we received first jets in 2019 and all jets by 2022... IAF worked on the jets and we have actually used the jets in combat...
Rafale simply has 10 years head-start against Su57...
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There is another reason why I believe IAF will go for Rafale...
IAF currently operates following squadrons--->
13 Su30 MKI
2 Rafale
2 Tejas Mk1
3 MIG 29s
3 Mirage 2000s
6 Jaguars
Total 29 squadrons
Jaguars, MIG29s and Mirage 2000s will all retire by 2035...
-
Let us look at the planned replacements (I'm only talking about number replacements, not capabilities)--->
4 Tejas Mk1A squadrons were meant to replace MIG21s, will add to above 29...
5 Tejas Mk1As will replace 6 Jaguars...
6 MRFA will have to replace 3 MIG29s and 3 M2ks...
This will help maintain IAF squadron strength at 32 squadrons by 2035...
It will also reduce "variety" in IAF, as both Tejas Mk1 and Rafale are already operational...
-
[On a side note, Tejas Mk2 will be ready for production only by atleast 2030 and SP jets will start coming in only beyond 2033... 6 squadrons of Tejas Mk2 will be the additional numbers to take the squadron strength to 38...
Balance 4 squadrons may be filled with Tejas Mk2 at a much later date but not immediately... Additional Tejas Mk2 won't be ordered upfront coz. they need squadron nos. for AMCA...
AMCA is meant to replace Su30MKIs... However, initial AMCA squadrons will be raised while Su30s are still operational... So, additional 4 Tejas Mk2 orders will be placed at a later date based on a variety of factors including AMCA timeline...]
-
Anyways, my point is, we need 6 squadrons of MRFA by 2035 to maintain strength of 32 squadrons... Su57s can not meet that target effectively...
Only Rafales can meet that target...
----
If at all IAF wants to buy Su57, ideal timeframe is replacement of Su30 squadrons, which is beyond 2040...
Out of 13 squadrons of Su30s, 7 squadrons will be replaced by AMCA... Balance 6 squadrons can be Su57MKIs...
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