India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[uddu]

https://x.com/GabbbarSingh/status/1969268064374976810
@GabbbarSingh
This ******* spent entire day laughing at Indians & his poor dad back in India. Now suddenly reality hits

[uddu]

https://x.com/CoHNAOfficial/status/1969108592742842619
@CoHNAOfficial
Coercion, promise of US citizenship, and promise of large sums of money to testify against
@BAPS
.

Yes, remember this development from summer of 2023? A group of artisans filed a petition in the Rajasthan high court withdrawing their complaint against BAPS, stating that they were forced by US lawyer Swati Sawant to testify against the Hindu organization.

The below letter and thread is a good reminder that such agenda driven actors will go to any level to dismantle Hinduism and the good work of Hindu organizations and spiritual leaders.

We will be watching and calling out the Hinduphobia without holding back.

https://x.com/CoHNAOfficial/status/1680290348348723200
@CoHNAOfficial
#BIGBREAKING:

Remember the case against
@BAPS
Hindu temple in 2021 that alleged "caste discrimination"?

#JUSTIN: A dozen artisans claim coercion, promise of US citizenship and large sums of money to testify against BAPS, are withdrawing the case.

[ricky_v]

Unfortunate turn of events for the brethren, but this is now a time where opportunities must be firmly seized, we were discussing here the lack of Indian alternatives to Big Tech, now there might be ample workforce on the way to effect some of these changes.
With some cushion in savings and a weakened rupee, a different mindset, more entrepreneurial, there are many things to work on

The primary would be focus on the Indian stack, os, search engines, sm platforms, to other refined niches

Hope the babucracy spring onto this opportunity and devise policies accordingly

[syam]

US doing cold war with India. But Indian thought leaders are as usual sleeping and hoping it will pass away like a bad dream.

Only thing left now is, sanctions on India like Iran has and kicking us off swift. Heads should be rolling.

On positive note, US playing all the cards it has at least in optics arena. H1b is the core aspect in Indo-US relationship at citizen level. Add the racism Hindus facing abroad. Their American dream is over before it started. Can they secure any future for their children? What guarantee they have that they won't be facing next version of Trump in future? Better we have this setback in earlier stage and be safe.

[S_Madhukar]

Someone need to tweet to Indian Americans "Doctors needed in India to provide quality healthcare to 1.4 billion people. Welcome back to India."

Well one heart specialist married Madhuri Dixit and has been growing his luxury car and real estate portfolio. Hope we get ones that want to practise at reasonable rates

[Bharadwaj]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down. I have said it before- these are feral people. Hit and Hit hard. Tell every US company it is out of India. Shut twitter, Facebook and google access overnight. Open our markets to every other country and reduce setup costs to as a low a level as we can dare. Make the U.S Pay. We will bleed but this undignified silence is sending all the wrong signals.

[Tanaji]

People who are saying this is a good thing are missing the point from the employees perspective. Indian IT majors are largely sh*tty places to work for with no concept of work life balance and boundaries. Some CEOs like those of Infosys are psychopaths that revel in toxicity. Couple this with middle managers that are on power trips with no reasonable WFH policies make this a workplace no one wants to work in with H1-B even for a few years a goal itself for most.

It does not help that the infra in our Tier1/2 cities is appalling with 1hour+ commutes quite common. Employees are going to be dissatisfied and this is going to manifest in various ways including against GoI however illogical and unreasonable it may be.

[Mort Walker]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down. I have said it before- these are feral people. Hit and Hit hard. Tell every US company it is out of India. Shut twitter, Facebook and google access overnight. Open our markets to every other country and reduce setup costs to as a low a level as we can dare. Make the U.S Pay. We will bleed but this undignified silence is sending all the wrong signals.

On the contrary, if they ramp up hiring in India they can stay. Re-impose digital taxes on US technology firms should they not have a large domestic presence.

I predict TACO by next August. US graduate programs in STEM will be hollowed out at most state universities.

[S_Madhukar]

I think NaMo is waiting for trade deals to fructify with EU and other countries so that non- US options are visibly and profitably on table. Till then smile at TACO while Wall St sweats and TACO has to relent. No point in glaring at US when we have not covered for contingency.

[drnayar]

People who are saying this is a good thing are missing the point from the employees perspective. Indian IT majors are largely sh*tty places to work for with no concept of work life balance and boundaries. Some CEOs like those of Infosys are psychopaths that revel in toxicity. Couple this with middle managers that are on power trips with no reasonable WFH policies make this a workplace no one wants to work in with H1-B even for a few years a goal itself for most.

It does not help that the infra in our Tier1/2 cities is appalling with 1hour+ commutes quite common. Employees are going to be dissatisfied and this is going to manifest in various ways including against GoI however illogical and unreasonable it may be.

all American multinationals in bharat needs to pay taxes equivalent to what America does to india. , lets start with 50 %

[putnanja]

This will hit enrollment at US universities too. If there is not going to be any opportunity to work after studies, with threats of withdrawing OPT too, no one is going to invest crores into education in US. Not just India, this will affect Chinese and lost of East Europeans too , who go to study in US and then work there.

[gakakkad]

This will shave off 20% + from us economy and science and tech will shore up elsewhere .

[uddu]

There is a negative effect to it. It will create inflation on items that are literally monopoly areas or areas where the U.S companies are competitive or we don't have any presence. Like engines. What about 1/4 or 1/5th rule. 10 percent for U.S 50 percent tariff. The American multinationals need not be touched as they employ and source items from India. Only the ones sourcing parts from U.S will lose market share to Indian companies.

[Mort Walker]

This will hit enrollment at US universities too. If there is not going to be any opportunity to work after studies, with threats of withdrawing OPT too, no one is going to invest crores into education in US. Not just India, this will affect Chinese and lost of East Europeans too , who go to study in US and then work there.

Definitely. Already over 30% drop this academic year of international students to the US. Another big drop coming next academic year. My guess is that Trump admin actions will be bigger than the drop due to covid.

This link is from academic year 2024-25:
https://opendoorsdata.org/wp-content/up ... 2024-1.pdf

[Mort Walker]

There is a negative effect to it. It will create inflation on items that are literally monopoly areas or areas where the U.S companies are competitive or we don't have any presence. Like engines. What about 1/4 or 1/5th rule. 10 percent for U.S 50 percent tariff.

Existing products less so, but new products being planned will be a different story.

[KL Dubey]

Here is From the White House:
RESTRICTION ON ENTRY OF CERTAIN NONIMMIGRANT WORKERS

First impressions after reading the order:

1. It does seem targeted at India and its IT professionals and IT sector. There is an extensive section on the IT sector. And the order is for 12 months, meaning it is likely a tactical move to force concessions from Modi sarkar.

2. It seems to carve out exemptions for advanced degree holders being hired for things like R&D, medicine, etc. Such petitions would be accompanied by a letter from the employer establishing a national interest angle.

3. The language doesnt seem to be carefully written and may not stand in a court. Already there are multiple lawsuits probably going in on Monday.

4. It seems the likes of Amazon, google etc are telling their H1B employees to stay in US, and who are traveling outside the US get back asap before the order kicks in. Indicates they are gearing for legal challenges but dont expect this program to go away.

[SRajesh]

So farall these actions taken by US has been with one specific intention: Curtailment of India!!
This seem to have escalated post Operation Sindoor.
Whatever steps Sleepy and the Wonky Band were taking has now turned into Trump's Speedwagon.
The previous attempts like : Adani/Hindenburg, Pegasus, SEBI, Stone Pelting , Anti-CAA, Manipur has yeilded Zilch. And neither have Tariff !!
And the latest Vote Chori appears to be a Still Birth!!
They are not able to mobilize GEnZ
So this may be a latest Salvo
Now I wonder what was discussed in the Luncheon meet when Trump met the bigwig CEO's
There's no major Rudali from the Big Techs so did they know what was coming!!
And add to this Unkil's attempts of 'String of Pearls' of its own (Albeit More Land/Airforce Base rather Naval)
And my question still stands(which i posted on Operation Sindoor thread) : What is it that we hit that has upset Unkil or more importantly CENTCOM and spooked them so much! that they want to set us back by atleast decade or more in modern warfare
And add to this the Yahood seem to have done a 'Balakote' on Qatar emulating us
Unkil or CENTCOM doesnt like this closeness between Yahood and Hanood.
My feeling is more Military driven need to curtail us whicn kind of dovetails into State Dept needs!!

[ritesh]

https://x.com/GabbbarSingh/status/1969268064374976810
@GabbbarSingh
This ******* spent entire day laughing at Indians & his poor dad back in India. Now suddenly reality hits

Am I wrong to assume this might have repercussions on woke illiberal crowd of professors and academics at various universities and also have a major discouraging effect on new student population going from India with dreams of working post completing their education in US?

[vera_k]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down.

The L visa is not similarly treated.

The unique thing about the H visa is that it allows people to transition to US citizenship eventually.

That tells me, this is about reducing legal immigration to the US. They are okay if people come and work for a while, long as they return back to their home country. This is coming from the restrictionist camp.

[gakakkad]

I don't think this ll curtail India at all . It'll curtail unkil . Hopefully Indians and GOI get the message loud and clear . Word on the street is that back to the moon mission is lagging behind because of Stargate issues . I think goi should try to beat the yanks to it .

They need to use this as an opportunity to galvanize the masses for the goal of making this an Indian century .

[ritesh]

Next probable action by Trump admin... Restricting shrimp imports.
https://x.com/TheNavroopSingh/status/19 ... 4871816268

[RCase]

How about a PLI like scheme for American companies by providing them cash incentives to relocate their current H1-B employees to India? Financial incentives to companies will make them figure out ways of working around on-shore requirement of personnel and use off-shore resources. Instead of them having to spend $100K (or even the current $5K), they will be getting money from GoI.

Similarly, have US universities come up with a hybrid model, wherein students can attend most of the classes remotely or in an Indian campus, at a lot cheaper price point. Saves money for the student and they still get a US university degree. The current US Univ model is unsustainable.

There have been suggestions of using near-shore destinations like Canada and Mexico. Apart from time zone advantage, I am not sure what is the advantage of stationing personnel in Canada or Mexico versus having them in India?

[Sonugn]

Next Up -


Indian IT Companies Face Uncertainty As US HIRE Act Targets Outsourcing

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/hire-ac ... ng-9263488

The HIRE Act proposes a 25% tax on outsourcing payments, creating likely challenges for Indian IT companies serving American clients.

[KL Dubey]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down.

The L visa is not similarly treated.

The unique thing about the H visa is that it allows people to transition to US citizenship eventually.

That tells me, this is about reducing legal immigration to the US. They are okay if people come and work for a while, long as they return back to their home country. This is coming from the restrictionist camp.

Not really. It is trying to clamp down on the "people coming to work for a while" under the assumption that these people have been unfairly preferred over US citizens for IT jobs.

If "reducing legal immigration as a path to citizenship" was the goal, this seems a very unproductive way of doing it. There might be a effect on the number of US-citizen children born to H1-B temporary workers.

The typical H1B IT professional from India does not really have a reasonable path to citizenship since getting a GC will take a very long time. As of now, H1B holders with advanced degrees and higher-end jobs will get GCs under EB1 or EB2 (with/without NIW) in a reasonable time.

There are too many misconceptions about the H1B visa, including the misconception that is only for "high-paying" jobs. The H1B is for "specialty occupations", i.e. "high-skilled" jobs and not necessarily "high-paying" jobs. There are also two categories: 20,000 quota for advanced degree holders from US universities, and 65,000 for the others. There was thought given to preventing US-trained talent from leaving. Given the verbiage in the WH order, the former category will likely continue going through - this is the category that usually moves towards GC and citizenship.

[KL Dubey]

I wonder where are Elon Musk and Chatur Ramalingam ? Both argued in favor of the H1B program....with Musk saying he'd "go to war" if Trump messed with the H1B visa. He also said he would favor an increase in H1B application fees (it seems he's got what he asked for ).

Also interestingly, many of the large "tech" companies (including Tesla) have been hit with lawsuits in the last 2-3 months over "preferential" hiring of H1Bs. I wonder if this complicates their resistance to the latest WH order.

[A_Gupta]

On September 16th Senator Moreno tried to have his HIRE bill passed by unanimous consent; a Senate Democrat, Rosen from Nevada objected, saying that this is not the way legislation is done; but promising to work with Moreno to work out something.

[A_Gupta]

There are too many misconceptions about the H1B visa, including the misconception that is only for "high-paying" jobs. The H1B is for "specialty occupations", i.e. "high-skilled" jobs and not necessarily "high-paying" jobs.

We know this is gamed by employers, but they must certify that they are paying the H1-B hire above the market rate for that speciality occupation.

[KL Dubey]

I don't think this ll curtail India at all . It'll curtail unkil . Hopefully Indians and GOI get the message loud and clear . Word on the street is that back to the moon mission is lagging behind because of Stargate issues . I think goi should try to beat the yanks to it .

They need to use this as an opportunity to galvanize the masses for the goal of making this an Indian century .

Overall, I do agree.

Its increasingly nearing "ganpat rai" time for the US economy and workforce. Universities and technical schools have been doing all they can to better skill the workforce, but the problem is truly a broader and pervasive societal malaise that starts right from childhood and persists throughout K-12.

The claim is that Americans get discouraged to aspire to skilled jobs by a handful of desi H1B wallahs working for purportedly "lower wages". Heck, if the said Americans are indeed that easily defeated, then Bharat is indeed unstoppable and will reach "viksit" status well before 2047.

As for wages: the recent WH order itself is contradictory. It cites figures saying that if H1B workers were not present, there would be wage rise of 2.6%-5.1%..which is really small in comparison to the tall claims made earlier.

[williams]

Again relax folks. Nothing earth shattering has happened. 85 thousand engineers world wide and probably half that number in India go for this visa category. Most of these people work as consultants/contractors. It is a small number compared to the disruption that happened during Covid. When Covid happened all travel came to an halt, and most of the work is pushed remote during that time itself. That was much bigger disruption and yet nothing happened to Indian IT industry. Many IT US master degree holders also did not get any OJT opportunities. Offshoring in Mexico is already well established. So if there are H1b holders who are stranded, they will probably go to Mexico and manage their work from there. Doctors/researchers etc will find opportunities in other countries and will happily move to greener pasturers. There will be higher demand for US IT workers and their salaries will automatically go up. That will make this a more expensive affair. Silently the IT big wigs in the US will lobby to dilute this law and things will be back to square one.

Back home if we solve basic civic problems, provide batter services and opportunities for the aspirational youth, no one would want to go to other countries. As some one said let us use this opportunity to incentivize building our own platform stack and fuel our own economic growth. We could provide soft loans to those who want to return back and start their own MSMEs in India. Work life balance issues is mostly for IT workers who need to get work done in the day time and discuss issues in US timing from India. Those can be resolved and IT companies are usually in the forefront to improve things as they see more people working in this mode. Our youth is resilient and will grab opportunities as they come. They have been challenged in much more ways than we can all imagine. They will move on to do greater things in life.

Ultimately Amercans will be the losers. They have not improved their education system and are producing fewer STEM students. If the international students don't show up in numbers due to lack of opportunities all the innovation we see in the US will tank.

[Vayutuvan]

Got this in my WA from a friend. TIFWIW.

Scenario 1: New H-1B from Outside the U.S.
• Example: An Indian software engineer in Hyderabad is selected in the H-1B lottery, and their U.S. employer files the petition.
•  $100,000 fee required (because the worker is outside the U.S. when the petition is filed).
⸻
 Scenario 2: New H-1B from Inside the U.S. (Change of Status)
• Example: An F-1 student already in the U.S. applies for change of status to H-1B.
•  No $100,000 fee (because the worker is already inside the U.S. at filing time).
⸻
 Scenario 3: H-1B Extension / Renewal (same employer, still in U.S.)
• Example: A current H-1B employee in California files for a 3-year extension with the same employer.
•  No $100,000 fee (renewals/extensions from within the U.S. are not covered).
⸻
 Scenario 4: H-1B Transfer to a New Employer (worker still in U.S.)
• Example: A software engineer in Texas on H-1B transfers to another company.
•  No $100,000 fee (still inside the U.S. at the time of filing).
⸻
 Scenario 5: H-1B Worker Travels Abroad During Extension/Transfer
• Example: A worker’s extension is filed while they are inside the U.S., but later they travel to India and need stamping at a U.S. consulate.
•  No $100,000 fee — the proclamation only looks at status at time of petition filing, not later visa stamping.
⸻
 Scenario 6: New Petition After Worker Left U.S.
• Example: Someone previously on H-1B leaves the U.S. for a year, then a company wants to bring them back with a new petition.
•  $100,000 fee required (because they are outside the U.S. at the time of the new petition).
⸻
 Key Rule of Thumb
• Inside U.S. at filing time → no $100,000 fee.
• Outside U.S. at filing time → $100,000 fee required.

[vera_k]

Not really. It is trying to clamp down on the "people coming to work for a while" under the assumption that these people have been unfairly preferred over US citizens for IT jobs.

That part of it serves to drive a wedge between support for employment based immigration on the left. Unions are a big supporters of the US left wing, and this serves to get support from them towards Trump's new policies. Remember, all current standards for employment immigration such as need for proving wage standards originated from the unions pushing for it.

If "reducing legal immigration as a path to citizenship" was the goal, this seems a very unproductive way of doing it. There might be a effect on the number of US-citizen children born to H1-B temporary workers.

There will be no US-citizen children born to visa holders nationwide once the Supreme Court is done with the legal challenges to the earlier birthright citizenship executive order. Even now, US citizenship for children born to visa holders is available in some states, but not other states.

[A_Gupta]

Lutnick said on Friday that "all the big companies are on board" with $100,000 a year for H-1B visas. "We've spoken to them," he said.

This article was published in thejakartapost.com with the title "". Click to read: https://www.thejakartapost.com/world/20 ... -tech.html.

[KL Dubey]

There are too many misconceptions about the H1B visa, including the misconception that is only for "high-paying" jobs. The H1B is for "specialty occupations", i.e. "high-skilled" jobs and not necessarily "high-paying" jobs.

We know this is gamed by employers, but they must certify that they are paying the H1-B hire above the market rate for that speciality occupation.

So why do you call this "gaming" ? The WH report itself quotes some figures that if the H1B workers were not present in IT, wages would likely increase by 2.6-5.1%...which is paltry in comparison to tall claims of H1Bs causing massive wage depression.

Added this text to my other post also:

There are also two categories: 20,000 quota for advanced degree holders from US universities, and 65,000 for the others. There was thought given to preventing US-trained talent from leaving. Given the verbiage in the WH order, the former category will likely continue going through - this is the category that usually moves towards GC and citizenship.

[Vayutuvan]

EOs are legally binding, proclamations or rule changes can be administratively adjusted at any time by the DoS. The fees are excessive & will be challenged in court. The administration may have difficulty pointing to other such fees administered by the DoS. The intent was an end-run around the law to circumvent congress.

Since it is only for a year, by the time legal challenges come to court, there will be some damage unless court immediately grants a stay. By the time legal adjudication is done, a major part of that one year would have gone by.

It is designed such that Indian-Americans pressure Modi ji to relent on tariffs as they are not affected by imports of agri/food items from the US. In fact they are affected by the tariffs on food stuffs from India. As it is, prices of Indian groceries have gone up significantly. Fresh vegetable prices also have gone up. Packaged frozen meat/fast food prices have also gone up but by not as much as the vegetables, wheat flour, and Indian origin rice.

[Dilbu]

Unkil is targeting Indian middle class which is a major voter base supporting Modi. By creating hurdles in the way of average Indian’s aspiration to study and settle in US or to go there on H1B visa, as a short term measure, unkil is saying we are ready to give visas again as soon as you vote Modi out. I am expecting RaGa to issue a statement shortly blaming Modi for shattering the dreams and job aspirations of GenZ in India. This is all part of the regime change toolkit plans.

[gakakkad]

I don't think the average until policy maker as smart as the average Indian to be able to figure out 8d chess moves of targeting modi by adding H1 fee . This was just done to keep domestic audience happy . The trailer trash supreme gaandwallas .

[A_Gupta]

We know this is gamed by employers, but they must certify that they are paying the H1-B hire above the market rate for that speciality occupation.

So why do you call this "gaming" ? The WH report itself quotes some figures that if the H1B workers were not present in IT, wages would likely increase by 2.6-5.1%...which is paltry in comparison to tall claims of H1Bs causing massive wage depression.

1. They must advertise the post and report that they haven't found anyone in America. This is often done by tailoring the advertisement so that precisely one person can fill it. Anyone looking for certain jobs in the US knows to spot the signs that an advertisement is tailored so, don't bother to apply.

2. Determining the market rate for an equivalent hire in the US is not a science, and can be gamed, and is often done so.

3. If the 2.6-5.1% is the paltry rise in wages if there were no H1-Bs, then it does mean the US does have the native labor to fill the positions currently taken by H1-Bs.

[KL Dubey]

There will be no US-citizen children born to visa holders nationwide once the Supreme Court is done with the legal challenges to the earlier birthright citizenship executive order.

In that case, the view you are presenting is further weakened, there is even less need to use H1B programs as a tool to stop legal demographic change.

This is a tactical move targeted at India.

Even now, US citizenship for children born to visa holders is available in some states, but not other states.

Right now, birthright US citizenship is in effect nationwide (due to a federal court nationwide order in Aug), including children of undocumented immigrants. The US government has not yet appealed that.

I do not think the SC will rule against birthright citizenship for children whose parents are in the US legally on a visa. The term "under jurisdiction of the US" (i.e. anyone except a foreign diplomat/official immune to US laws) is the key. There could be some argument about the case of children of undocumented immigrants, but even that may not stand.

[A_Gupta]

Unkil is targeting Indian middle class which is a major voter base supporting Modi. By creating hurdles in the way of average Indian’s aspiration to study and settle in US or to go there on H1B visa, as a short term measure, unkil is saying we are ready to give visas again as soon as you vote Modi out. I am expecting RaGa to issue a statement shortly blaming Modi for shattering the dreams and job aspirations of GenZ in India. This is all part of the regime change toolkit plans.

The last 8 years of Republican/MAGA rhetoric, even while desis were hailing Modi-Trump, "ab ki baar Trump sarkaar", cursing Bidenwa, Harris, etc., hail India-US strategic partnership, blah, blah, blah and putting their fingers in their ears and refusing to hear what was said; and refusing to see what was in front of their eyes, puts the lie to it. The move happened at this moment because now no one now can stop Trump; he was quite stoppable and was stopped in his first term for milder measures against H1-Bs than this one. I think also this moment because this is something that the just-now martyred Charlie Kirk had wanted.

There is certainly pressure to try to get a favorable trade deal on the terms that the US wants.

[Mort Walker]

I don't think the average until policy maker as smart as the average Indian to be able to figure out 8d chess moves of targeting modi by adding H1 fee . This was just done to keep domestic audience happy . The trailer trash supreme gaandwallas .

Precisely. MAGAts on SM are celebrating the property prices in the DFW metroplex are going to come down in places like Irving, Plano & Frisco. They're in for a rude surprise as 10 yr Treasury Notes have caused mortgage rates to rise. The MAGAts end up homeschooling their kids, then kick them out on their own before age 21, then find out they have no skill or education. Now they think the kids can get those H-1B jobs.

Within the last 8 months, Trump admin has so messed up the economy that no one is able to find jobs.