India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[uddu]

https://x.com/GabbbarSingh/status/1969268064374976810
@GabbbarSingh
This ******* spent entire day laughing at Indians & his poor dad back in India. Now suddenly reality hits

[uddu]

https://x.com/CoHNAOfficial/status/1969108592742842619
@CoHNAOfficial
Coercion, promise of US citizenship, and promise of large sums of money to testify against
@BAPS
.

Yes, remember this development from summer of 2023? A group of artisans filed a petition in the Rajasthan high court withdrawing their complaint against BAPS, stating that they were forced by US lawyer Swati Sawant to testify against the Hindu organization.

The below letter and thread is a good reminder that such agenda driven actors will go to any level to dismantle Hinduism and the good work of Hindu organizations and spiritual leaders.

We will be watching and calling out the Hinduphobia without holding back.

https://x.com/CoHNAOfficial/status/1680290348348723200
@CoHNAOfficial
#BIGBREAKING:

Remember the case against
@BAPS
Hindu temple in 2021 that alleged "caste discrimination"?

#JUSTIN: A dozen artisans claim coercion, promise of US citizenship and large sums of money to testify against BAPS, are withdrawing the case.

[ricky_v]

Unfortunate turn of events for the brethren, but this is now a time where opportunities must be firmly seized, we were discussing here the lack of Indian alternatives to Big Tech, now there might be ample workforce on the way to effect some of these changes.
With some cushion in savings and a weakened rupee, a different mindset, more entrepreneurial, there are many things to work on

The primary would be focus on the Indian stack, os, search engines, sm platforms, to other refined niches

Hope the babucracy spring onto this opportunity and devise policies accordingly

[syam]

US doing cold war with India. But Indian thought leaders are as usual sleeping and hoping it will pass away like a bad dream.

Only thing left now is, sanctions on India like Iran has and kicking us off swift. Heads should be rolling.

On positive note, US playing all the cards it has at least in optics arena. H1b is the core aspect in Indo-US relationship at citizen level. Add the racism Hindus facing abroad. Their American dream is over before it started. Can they secure any future for their children? What guarantee they have that they won't be facing next version of Trump in future? Better we have this setback in earlier stage and be safe.

[S_Madhukar]

Someone need to tweet to Indian Americans "Doctors needed in India to provide quality healthcare to 1.4 billion people. Welcome back to India."

Well one heart specialist married Madhuri Dixit and has been growing his luxury car and real estate portfolio. Hope we get ones that want to practise at reasonable rates

[Bharadwaj]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down. I have said it before- these are feral people. Hit and Hit hard. Tell every US company it is out of India. Shut twitter, Facebook and google access overnight. Open our markets to every other country and reduce setup costs to as a low a level as we can dare. Make the U.S Pay. We will bleed but this undignified silence is sending all the wrong signals.

[Tanaji]

People who are saying this is a good thing are missing the point from the employees perspective. Indian IT majors are largely sh*tty places to work for with no concept of work life balance and boundaries. Some CEOs like those of Infosys are psychopaths that revel in toxicity. Couple this with middle managers that are on power trips with no reasonable WFH policies make this a workplace no one wants to work in with H1-B even for a few years a goal itself for most.

It does not help that the infra in our Tier1/2 cities is appalling with 1hour+ commutes quite common. Employees are going to be dissatisfied and this is going to manifest in various ways including against GoI however illogical and unreasonable it may be.

[Mort Walker]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down. I have said it before- these are feral people. Hit and Hit hard. Tell every US company it is out of India. Shut twitter, Facebook and google access overnight. Open our markets to every other country and reduce setup costs to as a low a level as we can dare. Make the U.S Pay. We will bleed but this undignified silence is sending all the wrong signals.

On the contrary, if they ramp up hiring in India they can stay. Re-impose digital taxes on US technology firms should they not have a large domestic presence.

I predict TACO by next August. US graduate programs in STEM will be hollowed out at most state universities.

[S_Madhukar]

I think NaMo is waiting for trade deals to fructify with EU and other countries so that non- US options are visibly and profitably on table. Till then smile at TACO while Wall St sweats and TACO has to relent. No point in glaring at US when we have not covered for contingency.

[drnayar]

People who are saying this is a good thing are missing the point from the employees perspective. Indian IT majors are largely sh*tty places to work for with no concept of work life balance and boundaries. Some CEOs like those of Infosys are psychopaths that revel in toxicity. Couple this with middle managers that are on power trips with no reasonable WFH policies make this a workplace no one wants to work in with H1-B even for a few years a goal itself for most.

It does not help that the infra in our Tier1/2 cities is appalling with 1hour+ commutes quite common. Employees are going to be dissatisfied and this is going to manifest in various ways including against GoI however illogical and unreasonable it may be.

all American multinationals in bharat needs to pay taxes equivalent to what America does to india. , lets start with 50 %

[putnanja]

This will hit enrollment at US universities too. If there is not going to be any opportunity to work after studies, with threats of withdrawing OPT too, no one is going to invest crores into education in US. Not just India, this will affect Chinese and lost of East Europeans too , who go to study in US and then work there.

[gakakkad]

This will shave off 20% + from us economy and science and tech will shore up elsewhere .

[uddu]

There is a negative effect to it. It will create inflation on items that are literally monopoly areas or areas where the U.S companies are competitive or we don't have any presence. Like engines. What about 1/4 or 1/5th rule. 10 percent for U.S 50 percent tariff. The American multinationals need not be touched as they employ and source items from India. Only the ones sourcing parts from U.S will lose market share to Indian companies.

[Mort Walker]

This will hit enrollment at US universities too. If there is not going to be any opportunity to work after studies, with threats of withdrawing OPT too, no one is going to invest crores into education in US. Not just India, this will affect Chinese and lost of East Europeans too , who go to study in US and then work there.

Definitely. Already over 30% drop this academic year of international students to the US. Another big drop coming next academic year. My guess is that Trump admin actions will be bigger than the drop due to covid.

This link is from academic year 2024-25:
https://opendoorsdata.org/wp-content/up ... 2024-1.pdf

[Mort Walker]

There is a negative effect to it. It will create inflation on items that are literally monopoly areas or areas where the U.S companies are competitive or we don't have any presence. Like engines. What about 1/4 or 1/5th rule. 10 percent for U.S 50 percent tariff.

Existing products less so, but new products being planned will be a different story.

[KL Dubey]

Here is From the White House:
RESTRICTION ON ENTRY OF CERTAIN NONIMMIGRANT WORKERS

First impressions after reading the order:

1. It does seem targeted at India and its IT professionals and IT sector. There is an extensive section on the IT sector. And the order is for 12 months, meaning it is likely a tactical move to force concessions from Modi sarkar.

2. It seems to carve out exemptions for advanced degree holders being hired for things like R&D, medicine, etc. Such petitions would be accompanied by a letter from the employer establishing a national interest angle.

3. The language doesnt seem to be carefully written and may not stand in a court. Already there are multiple lawsuits probably going in on Monday.

4. It seems the likes of Amazon, google etc are telling their H1B employees to stay in US, and who are traveling outside the US get back asap before the order kicks in. Indicates they are gearing for legal challenges but dont expect this program to go away.

[SRajesh]

So farall these actions taken by US has been with one specific intention: Curtailment of India!!
This seem to have escalated post Operation Sindoor.
Whatever steps Sleepy and the Wonky Band were taking has now turned into Trump's Speedwagon.
The previous attempts like : Adani/Hindenburg, Pegasus, SEBI, Stone Pelting , Anti-CAA, Manipur has yeilded Zilch. And neither have Tariff !!
And the latest Vote Chori appears to be a Still Birth!!
They are not able to mobilize GEnZ
So this may be a latest Salvo
Now I wonder what was discussed in the Luncheon meet when Trump met the bigwig CEO's
There's no major Rudali from the Big Techs so did they know what was coming!!
And add to this Unkil's attempts of 'String of Pearls' of its own (Albeit More Land/Airforce Base rather Naval)
And my question still stands(which i posted on Operation Sindoor thread) : What is it that we hit that has upset Unkil or more importantly CENTCOM and spooked them so much! that they want to set us back by atleast decade or more in modern warfare
And add to this the Yahood seem to have done a 'Balakote' on Qatar emulating us
Unkil or CENTCOM doesnt like this closeness between Yahood and Hanood.
My feeling is more Military driven need to curtail us whicn kind of dovetails into State Dept needs!!

[ritesh]

https://x.com/GabbbarSingh/status/1969268064374976810
@GabbbarSingh
This ******* spent entire day laughing at Indians & his poor dad back in India. Now suddenly reality hits

Am I wrong to assume this might have repercussions on woke illiberal crowd of professors and academics at various universities and also have a major discouraging effect on new student population going from India with dreams of working post completing their education in US?

[vera_k]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down.

The L visa is not similarly treated.

The unique thing about the H visa is that it allows people to transition to US citizenship eventually.

That tells me, this is about reducing legal immigration to the US. They are okay if people come and work for a while, long as they return back to their home country. This is coming from the restrictionist camp.

[gakakkad]

I don't think this ll curtail India at all . It'll curtail unkil . Hopefully Indians and GOI get the message loud and clear . Word on the street is that back to the moon mission is lagging behind because of Stargate issues . I think goi should try to beat the yanks to it .

They need to use this as an opportunity to galvanize the masses for the goal of making this an Indian century .

[ritesh]

Next probable action by Trump admin... Restricting shrimp imports.
https://x.com/TheNavroopSingh/status/19 ... 4871816268

[RCase]

How about a PLI like scheme for American companies by providing them cash incentives to relocate their current H1-B employees to India? Financial incentives to companies will make them figure out ways of working around on-shore requirement of personnel and use off-shore resources. Instead of them having to spend $100K (or even the current $5K), they will be getting money from GoI.

Similarly, have US universities come up with a hybrid model, wherein students can attend most of the classes remotely or in an Indian campus, at a lot cheaper price point. Saves money for the student and they still get a US university degree. The current US Univ model is unsustainable.

There have been suggestions of using near-shore destinations like Canada and Mexico. Apart from time zone advantage, I am not sure what is the advantage of stationing personnel in Canada or Mexico versus having them in India?

[Sonugn]

Next Up -


Indian IT Companies Face Uncertainty As US HIRE Act Targets Outsourcing

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/hire-ac ... ng-9263488

The HIRE Act proposes a 25% tax on outsourcing payments, creating likely challenges for Indian IT companies serving American clients.

[KL Dubey]

This a blatant attempt by that ******** Lutnick to make Modiji and India bow down.

The L visa is not similarly treated.

The unique thing about the H visa is that it allows people to transition to US citizenship eventually.

That tells me, this is about reducing legal immigration to the US. They are okay if people come and work for a while, long as they return back to their home country. This is coming from the restrictionist camp.

Not really. It is trying to clamp down on the "people coming to work for a while" under the assumption that these people have been unfairly preferred over US citizens for IT jobs.

If "reducing legal immigration as a path to citizenship" was the goal, this seems a very unproductive way of doing it. There might be a effect on the number of US-citizen children born to H1-B temporary workers.

The typical H1B IT professional from India does not really have a reasonable path to citizenship since getting a GC will take a very long time. As of now, H1B holders with advanced degrees and higher-end jobs will get GCs under EB1 or EB2 (with/without NIW) in a reasonable time.

There are too many misconceptions about the H1B visa, including the misconception that is only for "high-paying" jobs. The H1B is for "specialty occupations", i.e. "high-skilled" jobs and not necessarily "high-paying" jobs.

[KL Dubey]

I wonder where are Elon Musk and Chatur Ramalingam ? Both argued in favor of the H1B program....with Musk saying he'd "go to war" if Trump messed with the H1B visa. He also said he would favor an increase in H1B application fees (it seems he's got what he asked for ).

Also interestingly, many of the large "tech" companies (including Tesla) have been hit with lawsuits in the last 2-3 months over "preferential" hiring of H1Bs. I wonder if this complicates their resistance to the latest WH order.

[A_Gupta]

On September 16th Senator Moreno tried to have his HIRE bill passed by unanimous consent; a Senate Democrat, Rosen from Nevada objected, saying that this is not the way legislation is done; but promising to work with Moreno to work out something.

[A_Gupta]

There are too many misconceptions about the H1B visa, including the misconception that is only for "high-paying" jobs. The H1B is for "specialty occupations", i.e. "high-skilled" jobs and not necessarily "high-paying" jobs.

We know this is gamed by employers, but they must certify that they are paying the H1-B hire above the market rate for that speciality occupation.

[KL Dubey]

I don't think this ll curtail India at all . It'll curtail unkil . Hopefully Indians and GOI get the message loud and clear . Word on the street is that back to the moon mission is lagging behind because of Stargate issues . I think goi should try to beat the yanks to it .

They need to use this as an opportunity to galvanize the masses for the goal of making this an Indian century .

Overall, I do agree.

Its increasingly nearing "ganpat rai" time for the US economy and workforce. Universities and technical schools have been doing all they can to better skill the workforce, but the problem is truly a broader and pervasive societal malaise that starts right from childhood and persists throughout K-12. The claim is that Americans get discouraged to aspire to skilled jobs by a handful of desi H1B wallahs working for purportedly "lower wages". T

Heck, if the said Americans are indeed that easily defeated, then Bharat is indeed unstoppable and will reach "viksit" status well before 2047.

As for wages: the recent WH order itself is contradictory. It cites figures saying that if H1B workers were not present, there would be wage rise of 2.6%-5.1%..which is really small in comparison to the tall claims made earlier.

[williams]

Again relax folks. Nothing earth shattering has happened. 85 thousand engineers world wide and probably half that number in India go for this visa category. Most of these people work as consultants/contractors. It is a small number compared to the disruption that happened during Covid. When Covid happened all travel came to an halt, and most of the work is pushed remote during that time itself. That was much bigger disruption and yet nothing happened to Indian IT industry. Many IT US master degree holders also did not get any OJT opportunities. Offshoring in Mexico is already well established. So if there are H1b holders who are stranded, they will probably go to Mexico and manage their work from there. Doctors/researchers etc will find opportunities in other countries and will happily move to greener pasturers. There will be higher demand for US IT workers and their salaries will automatically go up. That will make this a more expensive affair. Silently the IT big wigs in the US will lobby to dilute this law and things will be back to square one.

Back home if we solve basic civic problems, provide batter services and opportunities for the aspirational youth, no one would want to go to other countries. As some one said let us use this opportunity to incentivize building our own platform stack and fuel our own economic growth. We could provide soft loans to those who want to return back and start their own MSMEs in India. Work life balance issues is mostly for IT workers who need to get work done in the day time and discuss issues in US timing from India. Those can be resolved and IT companies are usually in the forefront to improve things as they see more people working in this mode. Our youth is resilient and will grab opportunities as they come. They have been challenged in much more ways than we can all imagine. They will move on to do greater things in life.

Ultimately Amercans will be the losers. They have not improved their education system and are producing fewer STEM students. If the international students don't show up in numbers due to lack of opportunities all the innovation we see in the US will tank.