Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[Bharadwaj]

https://x.com/ANI/status/1971203783603470413

Hal CMD saying firing trial will be over in OCT and first two aircraft will be handed over. In the grand scheme of things one month further delay is not going to matter much but there is no doubt in my opinion that HAL underestimated the challenge of integrating an aesa radar into existing radome and integrating new weapons.

[ashishvikas]

https://x.com/ANI/status/1971203783603470413

Hal CMD saying firing trial will be over in OCT and first two aircraft will be handed over. In the grand scheme of things one month further delay is not going to matter much but there is no doubt in my opinion that HAL underestimated the challenge of integrating an aesa radar into existing radome and integrating new weapons.

I'd rather not take any CMDs statement as any type of commitment from HAL. [they simply lack ownership of their words]

[uddu]

Its not that Astra is not fired. It must have been done by now, if not for the failure and the need to change the code. If the next test also fails, indeed timeline will get extended or it will be done by that time. If they thought the safe option is the Israeli radar and that ended up as the problem, then its the lack of confidence of Babudom in indigenous systems that's delaying our program. Another is the GE engines.

[Bharadwaj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQ43e2rYxE

Mr Snehesh of Print claiming deliveries will only start end of first quarter 2026. But then he goes on a rant about the whole Tejas program so I have my doubts about his claims.

[uddu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQ43e2rYxE

Mr Snehesh of Print claiming deliveries will only start end of first quarter 2026. But then he goes on a rant about the whole Tejas program so I have my doubts about his claims.

Ignore. Print is known for propaganda. The defense reporting will not be immune to this problem.

[LakshmanPST]

Break up of 97 order is 68 Single seaters and 29 twin seaters...
----
Mk1 is 32 S + 8T
1st Mk1A order is 73 S + 10T
2nd Mk1A order is 68 S + 29T (I expected it to be 89S + 8T)
That is total 32 Mk1 SingleSeaters, 141 Mk1A SingleSeaters and 47 TwinSeaters
----
Honestly, these numbers are confusing... I guess only IAF ppl know how they're planning to organize them into squadrons...
But one thing is true---> The high no. of Twin seaters would mean that Twin seaters might be used for combat roles as well, not as just trainers...
----
One possibility I see is how Rafales are organized ---> 18 jets per squadron with break-up of 14 Single + 4 Twin seaters...
If we put aside Mk1s order (32 S+8T), the break-up of Mk1A orders is 141 Single seaters + 39 Twin seaters, with total of 180 jets...
That is approximately 14 Single and 4 Twin seaters per squadron with total 10 squadrons of Mk1A jets...

[KSingh]

https://x.com/ANI/status/1971203783603470413

Hal CMD saying firing trial will be over in OCT and first two aircraft will be handed over. In the grand scheme of things one month further delay is not going to matter much but there is no doubt in my opinion that HAL underestimated the challenge of integrating an aesa radar into existing radome and integrating new weapons.

I don’t think this has anything to do with the radome size

This is an integration issue between the EL/M-2052 and Astra. Whilst that is part of HAL’s role it is also more complex and involves DRDO, ELTA, CEMILEC etc etc

I just hope that they get this well out of the way with Uttam and because both are DRDO the integration process is much smoother of course will they then have the same issue with Meteor with the 97

Either way the main thing is production is ongoing and when the engine delivery issues and certification of weapons js complete they can hand over the aircraft within a few days/weeks

We’ve got exactly what we all wanted for a LONG time now- large upfront orders in a timely fashion for the LCA. A ~180 order backlog, it’s entirely over to HAL to place orders with their subcontractors and scale production accordingly- I believe they WILL do this, with a few teething issues a along the way but that is to be expected the world over


The deadline for all 83+97 seems to be FY2032-33 from which they want to commence MK.2 production so imaginary deadlines between here and then are immaterial as long as they meet that deadline

The engine supply will likely be the biggest constraint- perhaps the EL/M-2052 and then UTTAM down the road also but I’d expect to see 20-24/yr from 2027-28, a very respectable rate and hopefully straight into MK.2 with AMCA running in parallel (a few squadrons of Rafale thrown in maybe too)

[konaseema]

Break up of 97 order is 68 Single seaters and 29 twin seaters...
----
Mk1 is 32 S + 8T
1st Mk1A order is 73 S + 10T
2nd Mk1A order is 68 S + 29T (I expected it to be 89S + 8T)
That is total 32 Mk1 SingleSeaters, 141 Mk1A SingleSeaters and 47 TwinSeaters
----
Honestly, these numbers are confusing... I guess only IAF ppl know how they're planning to organize them into squadrons...
But one thing is true---> The high no. of Twin seaters would mean that Twin seaters might be used for combat roles as well, not as just trainers...
----
One possibility I see is how Rafales are organized ---> 18 jets per squadron with break-up of 14 Single + 4 Twin seaters...
If we put aside Mk1s order (32 S+8T), the break-up of Mk1A orders is 141 Single seaters + 39 Twin seaters, with total of 180 jets...
That is approximately 14 Single and 4 Twin seaters per squadron with total 10 squadrons of Mk1A jets...

They are planning to use the twin seater variant of Mk1A as the mother ship for the MUMT program (CATS). Hence many of these 29 will be used in that role. There may not be more than 2 trainers per Squadron of Tejas MK1/A.

[konaseema]

https://x.com/ANI/status/1971203783603470413

Hal CMD saying firing trial will be over in OCT and first two aircraft will be handed over. In the grand scheme of things one month further delay is not going to matter much but there is no doubt in my opinion that HAL underestimated the challenge of integrating an aesa radar into existing radome and integrating new weapons.

I don’t think this has anything to do with the radome size

This is an integration issue between the EL/M-2052 and Astra. Whilst that is part of HAL’s role it is also more complex and involves DRDO, ELTA, CEMILEC etc etc

I just hope that they get this well out of the way with Uttam and because both are DRDO the integration process is much smoother of course will they then have the same issue with Meteor with the 97

Either way the main thing is production is ongoing and when the engine delivery issues and certification of weapons js complete they can hand over the aircraft within a few days/weeks

We’ve got exactly what we all wanted for a LONG time now- large upfront orders in a timely fashion for the LCA. A ~180 order backlog, it’s entirely over to HAL to place orders with their subcontractors and scale production accordingly- I believe they WILL do this, with a few teething issues a along the way but that is to be expected the world over


The deadline for all 83+97 seems to be FY2032-33 from which they want to commence MK.2 production so imaginary deadlines between here and then are immaterial as long as they meet that deadline

The engine supply will likely be the biggest constraint- perhaps the EL/M-2052 and then UTTAM down the road also but I’d expect to see 20-24/yr from 2027-28, a very respectable rate and hopefully straight into MK.2 with AMCA running in parallel (a few squadrons of Rafale thrown in maybe too)

Astra Mk1 was tested and certified on the Tejas Mk1 aircraft which has another Israeli radar (EL/M-2032). The additional manufacturing line at Nashik will take the yearly production count to 30, as per certain reports. As long as IAF doesn't add more and more capabilities / additional weapon integrations, to the current Mk1A standard along with a steady stream of 2 engines from GE's stable for the next 2 years, we can count on 24 aircrafts per year for the next 2 years after which, if GE can increase the number of engines, 30 aircrafts per year shouldn't be a problem.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/SpokespersonMoD/status/19 ... 4282662040 ---> MoD signed a contract with @HALHQBLR for 97 LCA Mk1A aircraft (68 Fighters & 29 Twin Seaters) with associated equipment for the IAF at Rs 62,370 Cr (excl. taxes) under Buy (India-IDDM), today in New Delhi. The advanced LCA Mk1A integrates the Uttam AESA radar, Swayam Raksha Kavach and control actuators, with 64%+ indigenous content and 67 new indigenous items. Supported by 105 suppliers, the project will generate 11,750 jobs/year over six years. Deliveries will start in 2027-28, boosting IAF capability, Atmanirbhar Bharat & India’s defence preparedness.

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/19 ... 1624823005 ---> Even if the engine is still running, the delivery doesn't happen, Sunil Bhai Sahab.

[Bharadwaj]

I don’t think this has anything to do with the radome size

I was talking in terms of permeability. Remember the radome is still Cobham. Only recently the DRDO quartz radome has been offered for production.

[Bharadwaj]

VIDEO: https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/19 ... 1624823005 ---> Even if the engine is still running, the delivery doesn't happen, Sunil Bhai Sahab.

From what I understand from various reports the firing will happen shortly but there is certification work left to be done. Once firing and target destruction happens HAL can get MOD to force IAF to take the aircraft. Nothing wrong with that.

[uddu]

With the first 2 delivery happening the remaining 9 can be delivered quickly based on the availability of engines.

[Bharadwaj]

https://x.com/CNBCTV18News/status/1971432001631596587

Hal CMD tone sounds very very tentative about the ongoing firing trials. One hopes things have gone well and even if there were problems they can be fixed quickly. The weather at Chandipur may be a factor also. Things will clear up only next month.

[Kartik]

Break up of 97 order is 68 Single seaters and 29 twin seaters...
----
Mk1 is 32 S + 8T
1st Mk1A order is 73 S + 10T
2nd Mk1A order is 68 S + 29T (I expected it to be 89S + 8T)
That is total 32 Mk1 SingleSeaters, 141 Mk1A SingleSeaters and 47 TwinSeaters
----
Honestly, these numbers are confusing... I guess only IAF ppl know how they're planning to organize them into squadrons...
But one thing is true---> The high no. of Twin seaters would mean that Twin seaters might be used for combat roles as well, not as just trainers...
----
One possibility I see is how Rafales are organized ---> 18 jets per squadron with break-up of 14 Single + 4 Twin seaters...
If we put aside Mk1s order (32 S+8T), the break-up of Mk1A orders is 141 Single seaters + 39 Twin seaters, with total of 180 jets...
That is approximately 14 Single and 4 Twin seaters per squadron with total 10 squadrons of Mk1A jets...

They are planning to use the twin seater variant of Mk1A as the mother ship for the MUMT program (CATS). Hence many of these 29 will be used in that role. There may not be more than 2 trainers per Squadron of Tejas MK1/A.

On the contrary, those twin seaters will all go to operational squadrons. It's not as if a separate twin seater squadron will be raised with just twin seaters. They'll just have more twin seaters per squadron which will mean that the role of acting as the mothership for the CATS Warrior and other drones and UCAVs will be a mission that Tejas Mk1A squadrons will handle.

With the new 29 Tejas twin seaters being equipped with Uttam AESA radar, they'll be more capable than the current twin seater standard that is built to FOC std.

[Kartik]

I don’t think this has anything to do with the radome size

I was talking in terms of permeability. Remember the radome is still Cobham. Only recently the DRDO quartz radome has been offered for production.

The issue was identified as something that needed software changes on the Astra missile's end. That can't have anything to do with the Tejas Mk1A's radome.

[Cybaru]

https://x.com/SpokespersonMoD/status/19 ... 4282662040 ---> MoD signed a contract with @HALHQBLR for 97 LCA Mk1A aircraft (68 Fighters & 29 Twin Seaters) with associated equipment for the IAF at Rs 62,370 Cr (excl. taxes) under Buy (India-IDDM), today in New Delhi. The advanced LCA Mk1A integrates the Uttam AESA radar, Swayam Raksha Kavach and control actuators, with 64%+ indigenous content and 67 new indigenous items. Supported by 105 suppliers, the project will generate 11,750 jobs/year over six years. Deliveries will start in 2027-28, boosting IAF capability, Atmanirbhar Bharat & India’s defence preparedness.

All decks cleared for Rafale signature

[Prem Kumar]

Fantastic news all around!

RM Rajnath Singh has delivered on the following big-ticket items (three of these in just 2025) - a big shoutout to him! He has silently caught up on so much of the pending orders that, without him, would have never materialized

1) 83 original Tejas-mk1a (in 2021)
2) 97 Mk1a follow-up (2025)
3) LCH Prachand (2025)
4) ATAGS (2025)

[Prem Kumar]

Twin-seater doubling up as MUMT is a great idea! By the time Tejas-Mk2 and AMCA come around, these could be perfected on the Mk1a platform.

Since the latter two are also single-seater, we can probably expect the same mix of single:twin seater variants for them

Its also time to go for a B2 type stealth bomber + a heavy, stealthy, twin-seater follow-up to AMCA

[Aditya_V]

There is something happening behind the scenes, no way with GE F404 poor delivery we are staking another 97 Aircraft to be tied to that Engine. We are stupid but not that stupid.