Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

[Manish_P]

A weird statement IMVHO....

The Mk2 will be ahead of the Mk1A, in every respect.

VIDEO: https://x.com/ANI/status/1974037991187173848 ---> Indian Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal AP Singh says, "As far as LCA Mk2 is concerned, according to me, LCA Mk2 is sort of an extension of Mk1A. It is a bigger platform with almost, it's a similar class if I say generation-wise, but it will be able to carry more weapons. It will be able to perform better in terms of range and endurance. It will be able to carry bigger weapons. So that is why that falls very much in our scheme of things..."

Maybe the IAF chief seems to be saying they both are essentially single engine birds with incremental iterative capability enhancement .
The difference is not huge like the single engine Mirage 2000 vs the twin engine Rafale

[Cybaru]

AMCA will definitely replace half the fleet of Su30s...
If at all they need a Heavier Replacement for Su30s, they might go for Su57 or ADA will have to start a new program after AMCA and call it HCA...

IMO, AMCA will replace all of MKI fleet. It may not carry as much load as MKI, but its profile matches MKI every which way. MKI is inefficient in front of AMCA. If we want to match the load of MKI fleet, an extra squadron or two will even make that happen.

I also think given tech like MUMT, even the extra order of squadron would be unnecessary.

[Jay]

AMCA will definitely replace half the fleet of Su30s...
If at all they need a Heavier Replacement for Su30s, they might go for Su57 or ADA will have to start a new program after AMCA and call it HCA...

If AMCA replaces MKI then aren't we back where the backbone of the air force is a heavy fighter? Is there any other air force where a heavy fighter forms more than half of the fighting force? and we do not even leave our own airspace. As capable as MKI is compared to other fighters in IAF, it is such an overkill for day to day, run of the mill, grinding work that constitutes a bulk of activities for an air force, especially like ours which will operate within our borders or really close to it. I hope the bulk of MKI's work is taken over by Tejas as improved variants get inducted.

[Prem Kumar]

A weird statement IMVHO....

The Mk2 will be ahead of the Mk1A, in every respect.

VIDEO: https://x.com/ANI/status/1974037991187173848 ---> Indian Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal AP Singh says, "As far as LCA Mk2 is concerned, according to me, LCA Mk2 is sort of an extension of Mk1A. It is a bigger platform with almost, it's a similar class if I say generation-wise, but it will be able to carry more weapons. It will be able to perform better in terms of range and endurance. It will be able to carry bigger weapons. So that is why that falls very much in our scheme of things..."

Indeed, it reveals the IAF mindset. The way they perceive this aircraft. He is mentally mapping it to Gripen-E vs Gripen-NG (with a *sigh* - because they couldn't hook-up with this much desired aircraft)

Its almost like, we didn't want Tejas-Mk2, but its here - so lets make the best out of this

If the IAF had its way, the entire Tejas series wouldn't exist. If they had applied their minds & actually cared about strategy and MIC, they would have decided whether a follow-on to Mk1 needed to be a single or a twin engined aircraft (i.e. a medium or a heavy aircraft). All this talk about "mix" of heavy-medium-light is just bakwas. When the mood suits them or when they panic, they will load up on 270 Sukhois and 114 Rafales! Suddenly pilot shortage is not an issue, engine availability is not an issue etc

Heck, even AMCA is single-engined and is "Medium" class, like Tejas-Mk2. IMHO, it was a dumbass decision to design an AMCA - it should have been an F22/F-35/J-35 class heavy fighter/bomber because the internal bay nullifies the advantage of being a medium-class fighter. But when we realize that the IAF didn't want *any* domestic fighters, it becomes easy to understand why their planning is so crappy

I am glad all this is forced down their throat

[Avinandan]

Heck, even AMCA is single-engined and is "Medium" class, like Tejas-Mk2. IMHO, it was a dumbass decision to design an AMCA - it should have been an F22/F-35/J-35 class heavy fighter/bomber because the internal bay nullifies the advantage of being a medium-class fighter. But when we realize that the IAF didn't want *any* domestic fighters, it becomes easy to understand why their planning is so crappy

I am glad all this is forced down their throat

+1

But Prem Saar, you got a bit carried away.AMCA was always as a twin engined fighter plane.

[uddu]

Once AMCA MK1 is flying and its MK1A being worked on, a new larger sixth gen AMCA MK2 fighter that will replace the Su-30MKI can be thought of.

[LakshmanPST]

AMCA will definitely replace half the fleet of Su30s...
If at all they need a Heavier Replacement for Su30s, they might go for Su57 or ADA will have to start a new program after AMCA and call it HCA...

If AMCA replaces MKI then aren't we back where the backbone of the air force is a heavy fighter? Is there any other air force where a heavy fighter forms more than half of the fighting force? and we do not even leave our own airspace. As capable as MKI is compared to other fighters in IAF, it is such an overkill for day to day, run of the mill, grinding work that constitutes a bulk of activities for an air force, especially like ours which will operate within our borders or really close to it. I hope the bulk of MKI's work is taken over by Tejas as improved variants get inducted.

AMCA replacing Su30 is in terms of timelines...
IAF is planning only 7 squadrons of AMCA for now...

Only the first 3-4 squadrons of Su30 will retire in 2040s...
Remaining 9-10 squadrons of Su30s will be upgraded to Super Sukhoi standard and will be start retiring post 2050s only...

[Rakesh]

IAF Chief Wants LCA Tejas Mk1A Orders Moved to Mk2
https://bharatshakti.in/iaf-chief-wants ... ed-to-mk2/
04 Oct 2025

[Cybaru]

We want him retired!

He lacks vision…

[sanjayc]

^^ A bird in bush is always better than a bird in hand. They will keep pushing the can down the road but not actually place any orders. When the Chinese attack, show them the fantastic aircraft in development even if your hangars are empty. Maybe they will be scared reading the specifications of what is coming.

[uddu]

IAF Chief Wants LCA Tejas Mk1A Orders Moved to Mk2
https://bharatshakti.in/iaf-chief-wants ... ed-to-mk2/
04 Oct 2025

Went through the article once again. This is what the chief said.
“Mark 2 is a stepping stone in many ways,” he said. “I personally feel the 97 should shift to Mk-2. If we place the order quickly, concurrent production can start – this would make a huge difference to timelines and capability.”

So its a personal opinion. So it should be seen that way. May be our chief can personally feel about placing order for 97 more MK2 in the initial order itself and work towards ensuring that from IAF side the order for MK2 is placed quick just as the prototype flies successfully. And of course no more goal post shifting with more features and what not.

[Prem Kumar]

Heck, even AMCA is single-engined and is "Medium" class, like Tejas-Mk2. IMHO, it was a dumbass decision to design an AMCA - it should have been an F22/F-35/J-35 class heavy fighter/bomber because the internal bay nullifies the advantage of being a medium-class fighter. But when we realize that the IAF didn't want *any* domestic fighters, it becomes easy to understand why their planning is so crappy

I am glad all this is forced down their throat

+1

But Prem Saar, you got a bit carried away.AMCA was always as a twin engined fighter plane.

You are right - thanks for correcting

My point was about the weight-class and how stealth (internal bay) nullifies the advantage of moving up a weight class - and why they should have gone to a heavy fighter straightaway. Now, this "payload limitation" will justify buying more 4.5++ or 5-- imported fighters. And the tamasha will continue...

[Prem Kumar]

IAF Chief Wants LCA Tejas Mk1A Orders Moved to Mk2
https://bharatshakti.in/iaf-chief-wants ... ed-to-mk2/
04 Oct 2025

Surest way to spook the production agency! Which manufacturer or upstream supplier will sleep easy if a confirmed order can be changed midway?

But the IAF Chief will never talk about replacing the 114 Rafale order with 228 Tejas-Mk2 order. That will give the IAF a LOT more capability both in terms of squadrons & in payload/capability. Plus 228 Tejas-Mk2 will cost far less than 114 Rafales in both unit cost & lifetime costs

They will continue bitching about squadron shortage

[Khalsa]

Over 300 Aircraft at the mercy of United States of America for the engines ?
No thank you

Happy ... very happy with the 114 Rafales

[uddu]

Over 300 Aircraft at the mercy of United States of America for the engines ?
No thank you

Happy ... very happy with the 114 Rafales

There is no Guarantee that French will not become part of Some European Sanction on India if they choose to surrender to Americans. The one and only option is Kaveri and Indigenous engines. So if we have our own engines, 300 or 500 aircrafts flying with American engines will keep flying since every other component of Tejas is Made in India. A component of Rafale sanctioned, could spell disaster for the whole fleet.

[Prem Kumar]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Rafales use a GaAs AESA radar with no plan on the horizon for a GaN upgrade (as AlphaDefense points out)

When Tejas-Mk1a (batch of 97) + Tejas-Mk2 start rolling out, both of them will have a GaN Uttam radar, which is superior to that of Rafale!

So, ordering 114 Rafales with GaAs radar would be a huge mistake. Heck, ordering 114 Rafales itself would bankrupt the IAF by consuming all its Capex for years

But hey, our all-knowing IAF Chiefs will sweep this huge capability-gap under the carpet. But to take even the delivery of 1st Tejas-Mk1a, they need it to have test-fired both ASRAAM & Astra-Mk1 - nothing less would do

[SSridhar]

^ Two things regarding the radar.

One, the French are finicky, just like every other nation, about their radar. Weapons integration have had prolonged issues because of that.

Two, Integration of Uttam may delay the project. Will the French agree to integrating METEOR, Hammer & Scalp with Uttam?

[konaseema]

It is not just the current serving IAF Chief but even Air Chief Marshal Bhadauria had recently suggested that the 2nd tranche of 97 Mk1A be converted to Mk2. So there is consistency in that line of thought. Based on this, it may look like the IAF wasn't 100% on the same page with the RM on this latest order. Having said that, you can't starve the IAF without these 114 jets, because you get a GaA over a GaN radar from Dassault. By the time these jets start arriving, there maybe a GaN radar in the making. But the bottom line is these jets will have a AESA radar for sure. Tejas Mk2 will not enter serial production until 2032 but the Rafale's can get into IAF service by 2030, if we sign a deal by 2026 (with a local production line).

[Khalsa]

Over 300 Aircraft at the mercy of United States of America for the engines ?
No thank you

Happy ... very happy with the 114 Rafales

There is no Guarantee that French will not become part of Some European Sanction on India if they choose to surrender to Americans. The one and only option is Kaveri and Indigenous engines. So if we have our own engines, 300 or 500 aircrafts flying with American engines will keep flying since every other component of Tejas is Made in India. A component of Rafale sanctioned, could spell disaster for the whole fleet.

So I must qualify my remarks Saar.
I am a complete 101% voter for Kaveri. I probably echo some of Rakesh and Saurav Jha.
Buy 2 MiG29s, Buy 2 Su30s, Buy back 4 LSP Tejas and run 8 Kaveris till we either crack the mattalaurgy or crash/ bend those airframes.

Now back to the French and Yankee example.
Nope I am convinced by example and from history that the French never will. We are not buying engines from them. We are buying their Rafales and if they try .... it will only hurt their most recent success in the Rafale market. US has no intention of selling large number of F16s most 2032 but the French do.

Indian Air Force sword arm has always been french and the french know this, that they have armed the eliteest of our squadrons and there is reputation to uphold and protect here.

The only one who have to learn from being the execution arm of the person who compromised us is the British.
I would not trust them or the Germans and the Air Force and the GoI thinking is what I am imbibing here.

Gripen and the Eurofighter lost on more than just physical characterstics of their steed.

[Prem Kumar]

^ Two things regarding the radar.

One, the French are finicky, just like every other nation, about their radar. Weapons integration have had prolonged issues because of that.

Two, Integration of Uttam may delay the project. Will the French agree to integrating METEOR, Hammer & Scalp with Uttam?

I am not suggesting we replace the Rafale radar with Uttam. Just that, if we are ordering a new tranche of Rafales, we must insist on the GaN version of their RBE2 radar

Btw, there is some murmur that the French might be open to integrating Meteor with Uttam (for Tejas & potentially the Virupaksha radar for Su-30 MKI). Am sure this is a defensive play because they know that Gandiva is getting ready

[Prem Kumar]

It is not just the current serving IAF Chief but even Air Chief Marshal Bhadauria had recently suggested that the 2nd tranche of 97 Mk1A be converted to Mk2. So there is consistency in that line of thought. Based on this, it may look like the IAF wasn't 100% on the same page with the RM on this latest order. Having said that, you can't starve the IAF without these 114 jets, because you get a GaA over a GaN radar from Dassault. By the time these jets start arriving, there maybe a GaN radar in the making. But the bottom line is these jets will have a AESA radar for sure. Tejas Mk2 will not enter serial production until 2032 but the Rafale's can get into IAF service by 2030, if we sign a deal by 2026 (with a local production line).

The IAF Chiefs must be told by the RM, behind the scenes, to be measured in their public utterances. It doesn't reflect well on them or the MoD if, the week after the 97 Mk1a order, they talk about replacing that order with Mk2!

Were they navel-gazing when the MoD was drafting its paperwork? Or perhaps they thought the MoD will take its own sweet time & didn't realize that things were moving fast under Rajnath/Modi

And its also a stupid idea because the Mk1a is a bird in hand & it is safe to assume at least some delays in Mk2. Our budgets will certainly be enough for a healthy Mk2 order whenever it comes. If we go by the IAF Chiefs' suggestions, we will let the HAL's 3 lines become idle due to a 3-4 year gap between when 83 Mk1a's get delivered (2029)and when Mk2 production starts (2032). Moreover, there may not even be a 3rd line if the Mk1a order size was capped at 83!

This is the kind of thinking that caused the GE line to go idle & the subsequent delays that we are facing today

I am happy that the MoD didn't listen to harebrained ideas like these from current & ex Chiefs

[uddu]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1975625468113277310
LCA Mk-2 load out.