Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

[Prem Kumar]

This French Safran deal is about kicking the can down the road. The problem of engine is immediate. Kaveri and its derivatives are absolutely needed by India. Even a slightly underpowered engine is much better than importing engines (which is subject to sanctions). Using incremental improvements it can be scaled up further. Our blighted babus need to sanction in house test bed and aircraft for testing engines. This is minimum requirement if India needs to be independent of Videshi maal. Defence mantriji Rajnath and defence secretary are not in synch with this objective. They are still "hoping" instead of delivering value. Lots of backend deals are what Babus want to make their lives easier and unaccountable. The financial implications are even worse for India.

Far from seeing them as the problem, Modi sees the Civil Services as a solution. He often trusts them more than his ministers. He thinks they will watch his work-ethic and mend their ways

[Kakkaji]

I think the next logical step in the Kaveri program is to come up with an improved Kaveri 2,0 indigenously, with collaboration between GTRE and private companies like Godrej Aerospace, with performance that equals the GE404-IN20. Godrej has already proposed this to the MoD, saying this is more achievable than aiming to match the performance of the GE414.

A substitute for the GE404-IN20 is necessary and has to be ready before the LCA Mk1/Mk1A engines come up for replacement. Over 400 units will be needed during the lifecycle of the LCA Mk1/ Mk1A.

I would venture to say that, simultaneously, the French should be paid to develop a substitute for GE404-IN20 using their M88 core, which they have promised they can do rather quickly.

If both the above projects succeed before the engine replacements are due on LCA Mk1/ Mk1A, then just split the order between the two so that each can have a run of 200+ units.

JMHO

[maitya]

Maitya-ji can correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt (even if we opened the money purse and poured funds into the Kaveri program as of TODAY) that we will have a certified turbofan even after five years. I am more inclined to go with 10 years, but Maitya-ji can provide a more accurate timeline.

In terms of air power, we are staring at a fairly bleak future. The only (short term) viable path forward is the following;

1) Complete the Super Sukhoi upgrade on the current Rambha Fleet
2) Build additional Rambhas (around 40 more). Highly unlikely this will happen, due to the MRFA fiasco.
3) Integrate GE F404 turbofans, as and when they come to the Tejas Mk1A airframes.
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Nothing else (incl the MRFA) will arrive in any decent time. The first MRFA will arrive - at minimum - three years after contract signature.

I'm nobody to hazard guesses about the future of indigenous TF D&D, but IMVHO, if FTB, HATF (and upcoming ground based test facilities) and adequate funding is available today,
a) a 4Gen TF of 80-88KN (Kaveri class, the K10) is doable within 5 years
b) a 4Gen TF of 95-100KN (Kaveri+ class) is doable in next 7-8 years
"doable" -> testing completion, certification and production run start

However if we are aiming for 5Gen TF, the TRL level readiness can come by only after 6-7years, so certification and production-ready versions is minm 10+ years away.
That's why a JV with Safran (or whoever) for this is absolutely required - that's the only way to keep the AMCA program risk-free as much as possible.
The only grouse here is, there seems to be no willingness to fund a parallel 5th Gen TF D&D program - which is the only only way to hedge against OEM slowly drifting away to Mfg ToT, something that's not very different (though deeper) from the F414 ToAst deal.
I've given some example scenarios on X.

Similarly, wrt pt b above, the F414 ToAst deal is required for the MK2 program.

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Added Later: Wrt this parallel 5th Gen TF D&D program, a deep-mfg ToT of
i) the Izdeliya-30/AL-51 via the Su-57 Lic Mfg deal
OR
ii) the XF-9 series, as a Lic Mfg AMCA TF, as backup option wrt the Safran JV Turbofan
or both, would be a very serious accelerator!!