Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion

[uddu]

https://x.com/ANI/status/2016097221541036214?s=20 ----> Vice-President of the European Commission, Kaja Kallas says, "... When I go around the world, I see more and more countries want to build partnerships with Europe because we are predictable, which is nowadays becoming a value. We take a long time to negotiate deals, but when we do, we stick to them. We implement them, and that has become something that is of value... When we get there finally, we really keep our promises, and we keep our agreements. I think this is extremely important... We can do a lot together in different fields, and we have mapped different fields when it comes to security, defence, foreign policy, maritime security, and cyber security. We are entering into negotiations about that because to make decisions, you have to be aware of the facts and intelligence that is there..."

These are same lines used by Dr. S Jaishankar. That's copyright violation.

'Predictability Today Has A Huge Premium in Global Politics': EAM S Jaishankar After Meeting German Counterpart Wadephul
https://www.republicworld.com/world-new ... ounterpart
03 Sept 2025

@ANI

https://x.com/ANI/status/1963168140503790050 ---> #WATCH | Delhi | EAM Dr S Jaishankar says, "...We have important strategic relationships with a number of countries, and it's in the nature of global politics or global strategy today that each one of these relationships would be maintained and optimised. So to me, both Germany in itself and Germany as the biggest country of the European Union are obviously central to the calculations and to the relationships that we have in the world...For us, this is an enormously important relationship. This relationship is growing in substance and I can see at this time of uncertainties that actually it has a greater value. It's a very steady relationship. It is a relationship where largely what we promise to each other and policies that we have remain constant and predictable. So predictability today has a huge premium in global politics..."

[Sumeet]

Thanks Rakesh. Well time will only tell how much of this turns into reality. However, this is a good hope. Also, the idea of Indian participation in European Defense Initiatives is a good news. IAF chief recently mentioned about collaboration with foreign partner for 6th Gen fighter -- he may have Tempest GCAP or FCAS in mind. Tempest GCAP could be a good project for India. But then we don't make 20-25 years strategic plans. We will just focus on one aircraft and budget with narrow mind.

I wish we can plan till 2050 (Tejas Mk2, Super Sukhoi, AMCA 1/2, Rafale F4.2/Rafale F5, UCAV/Buddy drones, Tempest GCAP)

[Rakesh]

@ Sumeet: In my personal opinion, this deal will favour European companies - defence and non-defence alike. Globalisation has failed due to US protectionism (Make America Great Again) and China's belligerence. One of the public talking points about globalisation was to raise China's lower tier economy that existed in the 1980s. The reality is the Western World (primarily the US) has a voracious appetite towards consumerism and China was able to provide the cheap labour. When the Western world was killing one Communist Power (Russia) in the late 80s/early 90s, they were giving birth to another (China). Now the baby has grown up and is not playing by the rules. That has upset the apple cart in both US and Europe.

But consumers still need products. Trade still needs to occur. Post China, Europe has to now make a pivot towards India, their next best hope. America still wants to play Emperor, but her options are getting limited due to Trump's intransigence. His own party has been coercing him to get a trade deal completed with India, but he seems to think he can prevail via getting India to bend at the knee. The more trade deals India signs with the rest of the world (Canada is visiting in March), that much weaker will be America's position vis-à-vis in trade negotiations with India.

[Sumeet]

Just saw this news:


‘Bang for the buck’: PM Modi pitches India as EU’s defence manufacturing hub

NEW DELHI: A Security and Defence Partnership finalised by India and the European Union (EU) on Tuesday will consolidate ongoing security cooperation and intensify collaboration in new areas such as space security, counter-terrorism, and the joint development of military hardware to support Europe’s rearmament drive to address geopolitical threats.

The Security and Defence Partnership, signed by external affairs minister S Jaishankar and EU foreign and security policy chief Kaja Kallas, was described as an overarching framework to deepen ties in maritime security, defence industry and technology, cyber and hybrid threats, space, counter‑terrorism, protection of critical infrastructure such as undersea cables, non-proliferation and disarmament, and international peace and security. The EU currently has such agreements with nine countries, including Japan and South Korea in Asia.

“Defence and security are a foundation for any strong partnership. Today, we are making this official through a Security and Defence Partnership. This will help us work more closely on counter-terrorism, maritime security and cybersecurity,” Modi said at a joint media interaction with the EU leaders after their summit.

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen described the partnership as a “trust-based platform” for cooperation on strategic issues that will build the resilience of both sides and expand maritime security cooperation through joint naval exercises against piracy and the countering of sophisticated hybrid threats.

The two sides also announced the launch of negotiations on a Security of Information Agreement, which people familiar with the matter described as a “legal enabler” that will complement the Security and Defence Partnership, acting as a “political enabler” for defence industrial cooperation in sensitive areas such as drones and air defence systems.

At a meeting with Kallas, defence minister Rajnath Singh pitched for synergy between the defence industries of India and the EU, and said such an approach complements New Delhi’s vision of Atmanirbhar Bharat (self-reliant India) and aligns with the 27-member bloc’s pursuit of strategic autonomy.

“The partnership will become a force multiplier by integrating supply chains for building trusted defence ecosystems and future-ready capabilities,” Singh said. Kallas said the partnership will lead to the launch of an annual security and defence dialogue, with the first meeting taking place in a month. “We will also explore Indian participation in European defence initiatives,” she added.

Kallas said India and the EU must work together in the vast Indian Ocean and learn from each other’s best practices through joint exercises. This comes at a time when China is attempting to strengthen its hold over the region, a strategic maritime expanse where challenges include Beijing’s carefully calculated power play for influence and the defence of the rules-based international order.

Singh welcomed the EU’s proposal for posting a liaison officer at the Indian Navy’s Information Fusion Centre-Indian Ocean Region (IFC-IOR) in Gurugram. This move will enhance operational coordination with the Indian Navy for counter-piracy and threat assessment in the Indian Ocean, the defence ministry said.

The Defence and Security Partnership and the proposed information security pact will pave the way for Indian defence firms to potentially benefit from the EU’s €150-billion Security Action for Europe (SAFE) programme, which aims to urgently boost Europe’s defence industrial base through joint procurement and financial support. A third of the outlay for SAFE is available for foreign participation, and foreign secretary Vikram Misri said that this will allow Indian defence firms to benefit from opportunities arising from the EU’s defence initiatives.

SAFE is one of the pillars of Rearm Europe, launched in March 2025 to boost European defence spending and industrial capacity by mobilising up to €800 billion by 2030.


“There is obviously a renaissance of the defence industry and the realisation for defence preparedness in Europe, which means there has to be preparation on the defence industrial front,” Misri said. “We would look over a period of time to be able to take part in these European initiatives [for the] defence industry.”

Misri quoted the PM as saying that India offers a viable alternative as a defence manufacturing and development location, providing the EU “more bang for the buck” for initiatives such as SAFE. He also noted that the Society of Indian Defence Manufacturers recently made a “very successful visit” to Brussels to meet with counterparts, and the information security agreement will prepare the ground for “more sensitive cooperation” in defence.

The India-EU Summit endorsed a new five-year comprehensive strategic agenda that seeks to reinforce defence and security cooperation, including setting up an industry-led Defence Industry Forum for focused talks on defence industry opportunities, and enhancing joint efforts to promote a free, open, peaceful and prosperous Indo-Pacific based on respect for sovereignty, territorial integrity and peaceful resolution of disputes.

In the field of counter-terrorism, the two sides will enhance cooperation to counter cross-border terrorism, radicalisation and violent extremism, combat terror financing, promote globally agreed anti-money laundering standards, and prevent the exploitation of new and emerging technologies for terrorism. They will step up exchanges on hybrid threats and develop strategies to counter such challenges, and strengthen law enforcement cooperation through the working arrangement between India’s Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) and Europol, including the deployment of an Indian liaison officer at Europol’s headquarters.

[Rakesh]

Just saw this news:

‘Bang for the buck’: PM Modi pitches India as EU’s defence manufacturing hub

Great Find. This is where Kalyani, Mahindra, Tata, Adani and Ambani will enter the space. The more they export, the greater their profile. This will kill the DPSU (not right away, but in due course) or force it to wake up from its malaise.

The worry is that via license production of European maal, viable Indian maal will get ignored. We are seeing that trend in small infantry arms, drones and even fighter aircraft. So the Govt has to being more stringent in what the armed forces are inducting.

[Rakesh]

Please understand this post, you do not have to agree with it...but you must understand the dice that India has rolled on the geopolitical board game ---> viewtopic.php?p=2668846#p2668846

What was the latter half of Narendra Modi's Make in India vision that he first announced in May 2020? Make in India, But for the World! That was the slogan of Atmanirbhar Bharat. So welcome to *THAT* world, almost six years later!

The below is what happens when the so-called Leader of the Free World runs amock and stomps on the rules-based international order. A system that the US itself gave birth to and nurtured, post the end of the Second World War. But it is largely working out great for the rest of the world and was bound to happen anyway. A lesson for future nations that aspire to become global powers.

VIDEO: https://x.com/TrulyMonica/status/201610 ... 48377?s=20 ---> Superpowers want to rewrite rules of multilateral order but coming from a small country (Estonia), I see hope in India: Kaja Kallas, Vice President of European Commission. From Canada to EU, everyone is seeing India as a saviour of multipolarity.

All four military chiefs also in attendance. Two out of three service chiefs have a EU product in an Indian military contest i.e. Rafale (Air Force) and Type 212CD (Navy). See the bolded part below ---> Make in India, But for the World!

https://x.com/IamRajat_Pandit/status/20 ... 12650?s=20 ---> Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, in meeting with European Union Commission Vice President Kaja Kallas, says India’s defence industry can play a meaningful role in the EU's #ReArmInitiative’, especially when EU is seeking to rapidly diversify suppliers & de-risk dependencies.

[A_Gupta]

They will simply say we painted the number again for the show

A reply to that (and a quote for those kvetching about the cost of the Rafale: "the cost of defeat is infinite").

Finally Truth Comes Out about Rafale
https://youtu.be/D0eP_Zh0VXw?si=Gha4hj3CKmchEHVb

The skies over Kartavya Path revealed more than just air power this Republic Day—they revealed the truth. In this video, we peel back the layers of propaganda surrounding Operation Sindoor and the Indian Air Force's strategic silence.
From the reappearance of Rafale BS 022 (the jet Pakistan claimed to shoot down) to the lethal significance of the live Meteor missile, we break down exactly how the IAF dismantled the adversary's narrative. We also dive into the overlooked evidence of a downed Pakistani Mirage (Atar 09C engine found in India), the validation from the Swiss CHPM report, and the savage sarcasm behind Air Marshal Bharti’s "High Tech" comment.

[Manish_P]

A reply to that (and a quote for those kvetching about the cost of the Rafale: "the cost of defeat is infinite")
...

It's a waste of our time replying to jihadi zombies. I really admire our professionals for keeping a straight face in rebutting their delusions... Few years ago I used to watch paki videos to laugh at them. I stopped very quickly after realising the damage it was doing to my brain.

[Rakesh]

@ Sumeet: In my personal opinion, this deal will favour European companies - defence and non-defence alike. Globalisation has failed due to US protectionism (Make America Great Again) and China's belligerence. One of the public talking points about globalisation was to raise China's lower tier economy that existed in the 1980s. The reality is the Western World (primarily the US) has a voracious appetite towards consumerism and China was able to provide the cheap labour. When the Western world was killing one Communist Power (Russia) in the late 80s/early 90s, they were giving birth to another (China). Now the baby has grown up and is not playing by the rules. That has upset the apple cart in both US and Europe.

But consumers still need products. Trade still needs to occur. Post China, Europe has to now make a pivot towards India, their next best hope. America still wants to play Emperor, but her options are getting limited due to Trump's intransigence. His own party has been coercing him to get a trade deal completed with India, but he seems to think he can prevail via getting India to bend at the knee. The more trade deals India signs with the rest of the world (Canada is visiting in March), that much weaker will be America's position vis-à-vis in trade negotiations with India.

VIDEO: https://x.com/MattooShashank/status/201 ... 15650?s=20 ---> BIG BREAKING: America says India got a great trade deal with the EU. "India has come out on top in this deal. They get more market access and immigration to Europe. India is going to have a heyday with this," says US Trade Rep Greer.

VIDEO: https://x.com/Indian_Analyzer/status/20 ... 62912?s=20 ---> BIG! EU’s Kaja Kallas says, "Europe is no longer Washington’s primary center of gravity. The shift is structural, not temporary." She flags a lasting geopolitical realignment. Global leaders engage India as power equations.

VIDEO: https://x.com/MattooShashank/status/201 ... 38707?s=20 --->
Journalist: Is Europe turning to India so it can rely less on America?
European MP: India is a major global actor. There are huge opportunities with India. Europe needs to increase its autonomy and independence.

https://x.com/shanaka86/status/2016481123002695816?s=20 ---> In 72 hours this week, three things happened that no allocation model priced: The EU concluded "the mother of all deals" with India. Canada announced a $2.8 billion uranium pivot to Delhi. Treasury Secretary Bessent went on ABC and said the quiet part loud: "They are financing the war against themselves."Here's what he accidentally revealed: The US administration views allied trade diversification as betrayal requiring punishment. Not negotiation. Punishment.

So the allies did the math. Unilateral defection from US trade architecture: catastrophic. Coordinated defection: survivable. The EU-India FTA creates a $27 trillion market spanning 2 billion people that operates under rules neither Washington nor Beijing controls. Canada adds energy security & critical minerals. Australia and UK agreements slot in. This isn't anti-American. It's post-American. The distinction matters. Anti-American architecture collapses under US pressure. Post-American architecture has economic logic that persists regardless of US objections. The allies aren't abandoning the Western order. They're building insurance against its weaponization. Those who recognized the freezing point are already positioned. Those who didn't will spend the next decade catching up.

The below is what happens when the so-called Leader of the Free World runs amock and stomps on the rules-based international order. A system that the US itself gave birth to and nurtured, post the end of the Second World War. But it is largely working out great for the rest of the world and was bound to happen anyway. A lesson for future nations that aspire to become global powers.

VIDEO: https://x.com/TrulyMonica/status/201610 ... 48377?s=20 ---> Superpowers want to rewrite rules of multilateral order but coming from a small country (Estonia), I see hope in India: Kaja Kallas, Vice President of European Commission. From Canada to EU, everyone is seeing India as a saviour of multipolarity.

https://x.com/McFaul/status/2016182833132486913?s=20 ---> Trump may want to pull out of all multilateral agreements and just go it alone, but the rest of the world is not following us. It’s not the end of the international rules based order as many have proclaimed. It is rather the end of US participation in it.

India and the European Union reach a free trade deal representing a third of global trade
https://apnews.com/article/india-eu-mod ... 38e6ce8d38
27 January 2026

https://x.com/Telegraph/status/2016224886050471943?s=20 ---> The EU has turned a blind eye to Narendra Modi’s friendship with Vladimir Putin to claim the “mother of all trade deals” with India as a victory. But the Hindu nationalist strongman is the real winner. James Crisp unpacks everything

Modi is real winner in ‘mother of all rade deals’ with EU
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... n-tariffs/
27 Jan 2026

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Arrogance_0024/status/201 ... 68236?s=20 ---> Forget about the BRICS, there is a new triangle of evil: Brussels, Brasilia, New Delhi.

https://x.com/IamAxelrod/status/2016536 ... 42266?s=20 ---> You did not think that when India ordered $35 Billion Rafale?

[Rakesh]

See below (some are incoming/future platforms):

1. BTA (Basic Trainer Aircraft): HTT-40 (the Navy used to operate the HPT-32 Deepak in the BTA role)
2. IJT (Intermediate Jet Trainer): HJT-36 (the Navy operates the HJT-16 in the IJT role)
3. AJT (Advanced Jet Trainer): BAe Hawk (inducted in 2013 into the Indian Naval Air Arm)
4. Rafale B for cockpit familiarization + Rafale M Simulator training at INS Hansa (will incorporate CGI layout of INS Vikrant)
5. Rafale M take-off & landing (with various payloads) from the shore-based test facility at INS Hansa*
6. TO & Landing from INS Vikrant, using the Naval Tejas Mk1 trainer for real world carrier experience.
*The Navy will not use the Rafale B in Stage 5, as the aircraft does not have a strengthened undercarriage as in the case of the Rafale M.

Hopefully official confirmation comes soon.

https://x.com/_TheTathya/status/2016337 ... 23123?s=20 ---> Indian Navy to induct N-LCA Mk1 trainers to fix critical carrier aviation gap.

• Indian Navy is likely to procure 12–18 N-LCA Mk1 twin-seat trainer jets.
• Approval from MoD expected later this year.
• Induction likely from 2029, alongside Rafale M entry into service.
• Currently, Navy has no dedicated carrier-capable trainer aircraft.
• Rookie pilots jump directly from Hawk AJT → front line carrier fighters.
• This is considered high-risk and sub-optimal in naval aviation.
• MiG-29KUB twin-seat fighters are too few due to crashes and attrition.
• Rafale B trainers are land-based only, cannot operate from carriers.

> N-LCA Mk1 Trainer fills this critical gap:

• Twin-seat naval LCA
• Strengthened landing gear
• Arrestor hook & carrier-specific modifications
• Designed for real carrier deck operations
• Will allow pilots to gain carrier experience before flying Rafale M.
• Improves safety, confidence, and operational readiness.

> This is not just a trainer induction. It’s a long-overdue fix for India’s carrier aviation training ecosystem.

[Rakesh]

India’s Fighter Jet Crossroads: Rafale Induction and the Future of ORCA and TEDBF
https://www.strategicvanguard.com/post/ ... t-strategy
29 Jan 2026

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/20 ... 66499?s=20 ---> Defence secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh confirms two major upcoming mega defence deals.

Future jet engine with Safran.
Rafale fighter jet procurement has cleared Defence procurement board stage.

[Vayutuvan]

Is the above good or bad for Atmanirbhar Bharat? In the short term good for IAF with more Rafale.

[Rakesh]

^^^ Good for Air HQ, but bad for Atmanirbhar Bharat.

[Sumeet]

^^^ Good for Air HQ, but bad for Atmanirbhar Bharat.

Its good for atmanirbhar bharat as it gives us some breathing room to develop indigenous tech. As long as Govt understand that and prioritizes with adequate sustained funding, PMO supervision in critical projects like engine etc, creation of state of the art development & testing infrastructure and eventually orders from our armed forces its all good. Otherwise, after 10 years we will be back to sqaure one.

Tejas Mk2, Super Sukhoi, AMCA and Jet engine from Safran-GTRE/DRDO JV are most critical projects for us over next 10 years. Hope we are able to achieve this. I don't mind spending extra to buy Rafale F4.2/F5 (as long as we are free to hook our indigenous weapons -- Astra Mk2/Mk3, Rudraam, SAAW, Brahmos etc)

[bala]

On Rafale acquisition: I am okay with the purchase of 114 rafales. This mainly has to do with aging aircrafts in IAF stable and making up squadron numbers. We have to leave it at that.

On Atmanirbhar: The Defence budget has been hiked. Wondering how much of this is going towards R&D stuff. The current R&D stuff should have 10x the budgets and GOI should recruit young minds to work on exciting projects. New ideas and new energy is required in R&D. A good leader like APJ Kalam needs to shepard such projects and perhaps also include leaders like Baba Kalyani from private. He does not need money as such, he can be advisor and guide projects. IITs have to be roped into solving vexing issues like materials, cooling tech and so on for engines. The IIT Madras R&D into ramjet artillery shows the way forward. India needs test labs for engines, engine being the critical component which can jump start many other projects. We need a decent test lab which can test blades run at high temps and pressure and with each iteration of cooling tech, we increase temps/pressure. These are all basic testing regimes. Please fund them adequately.

[Rakesh]

^^^ Good for Air HQ, but bad for Atmanirbhar Bharat.

Its good for atmanirbhar bharat as it gives us some breathing room to develop indigenous tech. As long as Govt understand that and prioritizes with adequate sustained funding, PMO supervision in critical projects like engine etc, creation of state of the art development & testing infrastructure and eventually orders from our armed forces its all good. Otherwise, after 10 years we will be back to sqaure one.

Tejas Mk2, Super Sukhoi, AMCA and Jet engine from Safran-GTRE/DRDO JV are most critical projects for us over next 10 years. Hope we are able to achieve this. I don't mind spending extra to buy Rafale F4.2/F5 (as long as we are free to hook our indigenous weapons -- Astra Mk2/Mk3, Rudraam, SAAW, Brahmos etc)

The problem Sumeet is that will indigenous tech get the space & investment to breathe?

viewtopic.php?p=2671219#p2671219

The above link is a step backwards. The Govt is unable to see the difference between what is license assembly (marketed as Make in India) versus what is actually IDDM (Indigenously Designed, Developed and Manufactured). If we go full throttle on the above link, the stakeholders will say they are buying "Make in India" products, but it is nothing more than license assembly.

If we are going to go for 114 MRFA and spend $35 billion on it, then we definitely have money to complete the Kaveri. But we do not want to.

[Rakesh]

New Rafale Deal: Almost Done, Some Questions
https://www.leftviews.in/en-IN/environm ... ment-30130
02 Feb 2026

[Kartik]

See below (some are incoming/future platforms):

1. BTA (Basic Trainer Aircraft): HTT-40 (the Navy used to operate the HPT-32 Deepak in the BTA role)
2. IJT (Intermediate Jet Trainer): HJT-36 (the Navy operates the HJT-16 in the IJT role)
3. AJT (Advanced Jet Trainer): BAe Hawk (inducted in 2013 into the Indian Naval Air Arm)
4. Rafale B for cockpit familiarization + Rafale M Simulator training at INS Hansa (will incorporate CGI layout of INS Vikrant)
5. Rafale M take-off & landing (with various payloads) from the shore-based test facility at INS Hansa*
6. TO & Landing from INS Vikrant, using the Naval Tejas Mk1 trainer for real world carrier experience.
*The Navy will not use the Rafale B in Stage 5, as the aircraft does not have a strengthened undercarriage as in the case of the Rafale M.

Hopefully official confirmation comes soon.

https://x.com/_TheTathya/status/2016337 ... 23123?s=20 ---> Indian Navy to induct N-LCA Mk1 trainers to fix critical carrier aviation gap.

• Indian Navy is likely to procure 12–18 N-LCA Mk1 twin-seat trainer jets.
• Approval from MoD expected later this year.
• Induction likely from 2029, alongside Rafale M entry into service.
• Currently, Navy has no dedicated carrier-capable trainer aircraft.
• Rookie pilots jump directly from Hawk AJT → front line carrier fighters.
• This is considered high-risk and sub-optimal in naval aviation.
• MiG-29KUB twin-seat fighters are too few due to crashes and attrition.
• Rafale B trainers are land-based only, cannot operate from carriers.

> N-LCA Mk1 Trainer fills this critical gap:

• Twin-seat naval LCA
• Strengthened landing gear
• Arrestor hook & carrier-specific modifications
• Designed for real carrier deck operations
• Will allow pilots to gain carrier experience before flying Rafale M.
• Improves safety, confidence, and operational readiness.

> This is not just a trainer induction. It’s a long-overdue fix for India’s carrier aviation training ecosystem.

If this comes true, it'll be fantastic news. It'll ease pilot training substantially. I have been batting for the LCA Navy trainer to be inducted for years now, just couldn't figure out why the IN was not ordering a squadron.

World over, there is no other supersonic carrier capable trainer and even the US Navy is having to dilute it's requirements to remove carrier landing and take off and replace it with approaches instead. PLAN may eventually get a similar naval trainer that is based off the Hongdu JL-10 (L-15).

Pilatus PC-7 Mk2 or HTT-40 for basic training -> Hawk for AJT -> LCA Navy for supersonic flight, radar, EW, weapons handling, carrier landing and take off -> Rafale D or MiG-29KUB for conversion to Rafale or MiG-29K -> Rafale M or MiG-29K.

Will generate lots of data for TEDBF, if at all that program goes into proper development and prototyping.

My gut feeling though, now, is that the IN will use the Rafale assembly line as the reason to ask for additional Rafale Ms in addition to the 26. They'll cite the fact that TEDBF isn't a true blue stealth design, just like the Rafale M and without land based ORCA to reduce unit costs, the development costs added to 60-70 TEDBF units will make them quite expensive..although Rafale M will probably cost even more.

[drnayar]

For years, France sold the Rafale fighter jet on one powerful promise: complete defence autonomy. Unlike US weapons bound by strict political and export restrictions, French systems came with no strings attached. President Emmanuel Macron repeatedly highlighted this as France’s key advantage in the global arms market.

That claim is now facing its biggest test. The controversy erupted after French defence supplier LMB Fans & Motors, a critical component maker for Rafale, helicopters, submarines, and tanks, was SOLD to US-based Loar Group for about $433 million. The deal was approved by the French government despite heavy opposition.

Critics argue that US ownership could pull key Rafale components under ITAR, allowing Washington to impose restrictions indirectly. This could undermine France’s long-standing promise of sovereign, unrestricted defence exports. Opposition leaders across parties accused Macron of betraying French sovereignty. National Rally president Jordan Bardella bluntly said, “You have sold France.”

At stake is more than one company, it is France’s credibility as an independent defence power. If Rafale loses its ITAR-free status, France’s biggest defence selling point may no longer hold.

Loar Holdings Inc. Announced The Completion of its Acquisition of LMB Fans & Motors
https://ir.loargroup.com/news-events/pr ... ans-motors
26 Dec 2025

Loar Holdings Inc. Announced The Completion of its Acquisition of LMB Fans & Motors
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/loar-hol ... 00566.html
26 Dec 2025

[Khalsa]

Yes will be an interesting area to watch.
I am sure Indonesia will be watching with interest too.

[Manish_P]

....

That claim is now facing its biggest test. The controversy erupted after French defence supplier LMB Fans & Motors, a critical component maker for Rafale, helicopters, submarines, and tanks, was SOLD to US-based Loar Group for about $433 million. The deal was approved by the French government despite heavy opposition.

Critics argue that US ownership could pull key Rafale components under ITAR, allowing Washington to impose restrictions indirectly. This could undermine France’s long-standing promise of sovereign, unrestricted defence exports.
...

And some folk still wonder why we pursue the Su-57

Added - ok, 'pursue' maybe the wrong word.. replace with 'keep our options open with'

[uddu]

...

Why no Indian pvt players bid for this? Many of them will rush to setup assembly plants in India.

[Bharadwaj]

I dont think this is an issue. There are probably a few parts on the RAFALE that are already under US ITR. The logistics of buying enough to beat any future restriction needs to be worked out-thats all. In today's globaly supply chain network no equipment can be said to be fully safe from some sanction or the other.

[chetak]

I dont think this is an issue. There are probably a few parts on the RAFALE that are already under US ITR. The logistics of buying enough to beat any future restriction needs to be worked out-thats all.

Bharadwaj ji

Why would India even take such an existential risk? It's a matter of life and death for us.

Even for a "one time buy" ie stock up spares for the life of the platform, it needs ITAR approval which may not be forthcoming so easily for any number of reasons. With the amrikis there is always some amoral leverage to be acquired by them, especially when they "allow" something to happen.

How many more lessons do we need from the goras before Indians get a grip on geopolitical reality. What trump has shown India is just the trailer. Even with other presidents (different and future POTUS), this is what awaits us down the pike.

मेरे दोस्त, पिक्चर अभी बाकी है......... just do some इंतज़ार

trump is not going to melt quietly into the shadows. He will come after Modi ji and India, sooner rather than later. Not only he, as also other presidents following him. The amriki culture itself is vengeful, extractive and geopolitically malevolent.

trump has been thwarted by Modi ji and India, and that goes against the grain. There will be retribution. We need to be wary of the amriki deep state and trump in particular.

There was no need of the second nuke strike against the japs, the first one was more than enough to make the point that further resistance was futile.

After WWII, the amrikis conspired with the britshits to defraud India of the ginormous amount owed by the thieving britshits to India, and what many do not know is that the amrikis took every last cent from an "impoverished" britshitland that the britshits owed to them for the amriki wartime help that the amrikis provided to the loser britshits. They even took their "empire" and doomed the britshits to the permanent status of being mere amriki vassals.

The amrikis were complicit in defrauding India so that the britshits would have the money to pay them, India be damned

There is already a great and bipartisan uproar in the frog parliament regarding the sale which the frogs themselves are extremely upset about. This sale will certainly affect french arms exports if their prospective customers are wary about amriki sanctions.

The sale took place because the amriki are systematically closing european arms exports to India, canada, some GCC countries and others by hobbling companies like dassault, the eurofighter consortium et all by weaponizing the amriki ITAR. The products of this company affect armored vehicles, ships and submarines and other platforms not in the public domain

do ask yourself why the money crazy frogs are themselves so upset with the sale

The International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) is a stringent U.S. regulatory regime controlled by the Department of State that restricts the export, import, and transfer of defense-related articles, services, and technical data to foreign persons to safeguard national security.

It covers items on the US Munitions List (USML), requiring strict registration and compliance to avoid heavy fines or criminal penalties. 

Key Aspects of ITAR: Purpose: Ensures that defense technology, services, and related technical data are not accessed by unauthorized foreign nationals, either within or outside the U.S..Applicability: Applies to manufacturers, exporters, brokers, and service providers dealing with defense items (e.g., weapons, military electronics,, aerospace technology).

Key Requirements: Companies must register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) and establish robust internal controls, including strict data access controls, personnel vetting, and, often, cloud storage in specialized environments like AWS GovCloud (US).Penalties: Violations can lead to civil fines up to \(\$500,000\) per violation, criminal penalties up to \(\$1,000,000\) and 10 years imprisonment, and potential debarment from future contracting.

ITAR vs. EAR: ITAR (Fortra) focuses specifically on defense items, while the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) cover dual-use technologies (commercial items with potential military use). 

[Bharadwaj]

Saar Ji those chaps make fans and motors- things which we can get from other suppliers. The certification of these items is not complex and if required dassault themselves will probably do it. I am quite sure there are more important components in these birds which are already under some U.S regulation or the other. If the U.S wants they can simply stop any supplier to us from doing business within the U.S. Good or bad they have that power. Even our own Tejas got hurdeled by Denmark of all countries over charge amplifiers.

[chetak]

Saar Ji those chaps make fans and motors- things which we can get from other suppliers. The certification of these items is not complex and if required dassault themselves will probably do it. I am quite sure there are more important components in these birds which are already under some U.S regulation or the other. If the U.S wants they can simply stop any supplier to us from doing business within the U.S. Good or bad they have that power. Even our own Tejas got hurdeled by Denmark of all countries over charge amplifiers.

Bharadwaj ji,

No parliament gets involved in objecting to the sale of companies making "just fans and motors"

They are rightly talking about protecting the sovereignty of france to make and sell their weapon platforms. The french are not fools to talk like this.

Three countries are currently ITAR proofed, (to suit India's requirements and also they do not lecture us on political morality and stop supply of spares based on their e**ing ideologies) thus suiting India's legitimate concerns, and India works with them and they supply weapon systems to India along with maintenance spares and upgrade support. If this critical french owned resource is ITAR hobbled, we may have to settle for other not so viable and reliable options, making our imported platforms less available and/or experience significantly higher downtimes thus directly affecting operational availability

currently flying top of the line fighters in the US use this company's "just fans and motors"

Either one knows what they are talking about or they don't

There is no one here to educate people on the forum at such basic levels

There are no "just fans and motors" in platforms costing hundreds of millions a pop

This matter ends here.

[Bharadwaj]

Ok Sirjee the opposition will make noise over anything anywhere but please be assured Macron is not going to sell away the crown jewels with a 114 aircraft deal on the table. I am sorry to have lost further pearls of wisdom from you.

[Bharadwaj]

https://aeromorning.com/en/blocking-the ... aerospace/

LMB Aerospace
Authorization was granted because, although the company is strategically important for defense, the transaction does not compromise national sovereignty. The operation’s criticality was considered insufficient to justify a veto, particularly as LMB Aerospace represents only about 10% of the militarized fan market and is not the sole French player in this segment. The operation is nevertheless subject to strict conditions to ensure the continuity of activities in France

[Rakesh]

88 Single Seat Rafale C of the F4* variant + 26 Twin Seat Rafale B, also of the F4* variant.

Ahead of French President's visit, Defence Ministry likely to discuss 114 Rafale jet deal next week
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 205214751/
05 Feb 2026

[A_Gupta]

That claim is now facing its biggest test. The controversy erupted after French defence supplier LMB Fans & Motors, a critical component maker for Rafale, helicopters, submarines, and tanks, was SOLD to US-based Loar Group for about $433 million. The deal was approved by the French government despite heavy opposition.

I see this as anti-Rafale FUD, along with a story of an unnamed country (likely Romania or Croatia) doing a U-turn on purchasing the Rafale.

Re: the acquisition:

The transaction was completed following clearance under the French foreign direct investment screening procedure by the Ministry of Economy and Finance.

This is from the Loar group web page:
https://ir.loargroup.com/news-events/pr ... ans-motors

We are also told that (needs verification)

ITAR jurisdiction attaches to U.S.-origin components, software, or technical data.
It does not attach to:
- foreign companies merely owned by Americans
- foreign products designed and manufactured outside the U.S.
- foreign technology that does not incorporate U.S.‑origin controlled items
- Ownership ≠ jurisdiction.
- If LOAR were bought by a U.S. firm, the Rafale would still contain 0% U.S.-origin components, so ITAR would not apply.

French law blocks foreign control of strategic defense tech
France has some of the strictest foreign‑investment controls in the EU for defense firms:
- The Ministry of Armed Forces must approve any acquisition of a defense‑critical supplier.
- The state can impose “golden share” rights, including veto power over technology transfer, export decisions, and board appointments.
- Sensitive technologies cannot be moved outside France or placed under foreign legal jurisdiction.

and

The French government authorized the sale of LMB Aerospace to the U.S.-based Loar Group under "extremely strict" conditions designed to maintain national sovereignty over critical defense technologies. The approval, granted following a review under French foreign direct investment screening procedures, ensures that the company remains a key supplier for French military platforms.

The key conditions imposed by the French Ministry of Economy include:

- Maintenance of Production in France: Loar is required to maintain LMB’s production and operational activities in the Corrèze region of France.
- "Golden Share" (Veto Power): The French State will retain a "golden share" (or preferred share) in LMB’s capital. This allows the government to block any future strategic decisions and ensures state representation within the company's governance bodies.
- Contractual Compliance: The company must ensure the continued, indefinite compliance with existing contracts, particularly those with French military companies.
- Control of Critical Capabilities: The deal required the protection of specific sensitive technologies considered crucial for national defense, as the sale raised concerns regarding potential U.S. extraterritorial laws (such as ITAR) affecting sensitive French platforms like the Rafale fighter jet.

[uddu]

Tejas project missiles making its way into Rafale. Will Gandiva be ready by 2028 as well? Meteor will be a Lilliput in front of Gandiva. Before any deal is signed, this should be a priority in the contract to have Gandiva integrated from 2029-30 onwards when its supposed to enter service.

India Plans to Integrate Astra Mk1 and Mk2 on Rafale from 2028, Dassault and Thales Ready to Assist with Technical Upgrades
https://defence.in/threads/india-plans- ... des.16817/
06 Feb 2026

[eklavya]

Mega Rafale deal set to get DAC nod
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 950336.cms
06 Feb 2026

The mega deal for 114 additional Rafale jets is set to be discussed at Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) next week and is likely to get the go-ahead days before the visit of French President Emmanuel Macron to India. Sources said the acquisition, which has already been cleared by Defence Procurement Board, will head to the apex body for the next round of clearances, following which the formal process of technical and commercial negotiations will start.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ThePrintIndia/status/2019 ... 33676?s=20 ---> What is the status of the India specific enhancements for Rafale? Former IAF fighter pilot Group Captain @Ahlawat2012nanswers that, and more, in conversation with Consulting Editor (Strategic & Int'l Affairs) @swasrao.

Link for those who cannot access X ---> https://twitter-thread.com/t/2019806793069633676

https://x.com/VatsRishap/status/2019808 ... 34594?s=20 ---> Good to see the Group Captain agreeing the Rafale’s India specific enhancements were indeed delayed for years, and highlighting that while the IAF wouldn’t accept this in public, this was an issue which has only recently been resolved fully. Fair play, because many still don’t.

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/NDTVProfitIndia/status/20 ... 37032?s=20 ---> From global aircraft deals to homegrown fighter jets. Rajesh Kumar Singh, Defence Secretary, on why localisation is hard, but essential, for India’s defence future.

https://x.com/ParthVa53135321/status/20 ... 17310?s=20 ---> RAFALE Template === C295 Template. Hence Screwdrivergiri & Assembly with IC % increasing gradually over time as the ecosystem develops. This is no big thing. No TOT - that should be clear. It is a pure assembly of jet which India has done since decades. Control and integration negotiation, will determine the deal how bad or good it will be. So Rafales fans must take note here.

[pravula]

https://x.com/VatsRishap/status/2019808 ... 34594?s=20 ---> Good to see the Group Captain agreeing the Rafale’s India specific enhancements were indeed delayed for years, and highlighting that while the IAF wouldn’t accept this in public, this was an issue which has only recently been resolved fully. Fair play, because many still don’t.

How dare they deliver less than contracted specs? We should immediately fire HAL and give Mk2 to private players.... Opps, wrong bird...and wrong skin colored vendors

[A_Gupta]

https://x.com/VatsRishap/status/2019808 ... 34594?s=20 ---> Good to see the Group Captain agreeing the Rafale’s India specific enhancements were indeed delayed for years, and highlighting that while the IAF wouldn’t accept this in public, this was an issue which has only recently been resolved fully. Fair play, because many still don’t.

How dare they deliver less than contracted specs? We should immediately fire HAL and give Mk2 to private players.... Opps, wrong bird...and wrong skin colored vendors

Did you watch the video? I didn’t, but I read the transcript.
Dassault was to first deliver the Rafales, and then do the India-specific enhancements. The interview say the delays were for two reasons - the Air Force was reluctant to hand back the air frames, and the payments were delayed. The interview says the Emiratis got their specific enhancements done on time by paying on time.

The interviews say also says the the experience with HAL’s fix later has not been good. We’ll fix it in a couple of months turned into nine years.

—
I am not pro-Rafale. I am very pro-the-Air-Force-having-what-it-absolutely-needs, and sorry guys, AtmaNirbhar Bharat is simply not there yet. Don’t let ideology or misplaced overconfidence in the nation’s capabilities in defense production blunt India’s military strength.

—-
Another interesting theme in the interview is that producing something at scale to specifications is harder than innovation, as per the “great” Elon Musk. So this deriding of screwdrivergiri is, as far as I can tell, somewhat misinformed.

[Rakesh]

IAF to have free hand to integrate weapons on 114 new Rafales: Sources
https://www.business-standard.com/exter ... 903_1.html
06 Feb 2026

[Cybaru]

IAF to have free hand to integrate weapons on 114 new Rafales: Sources
https://www.business-standard.com/exter ... 903_1.html
06 Feb 2026

Ha! Only if that free hand has lots of money! They will never learn! sigh...