Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

[A_Gupta]

> the british said that gandhi was worth two brigades in India. why would they even think that

This was in the context of stopping the partition rioting.

FYI, Subhas Bose named one of the INA brigades the Gandhi Bigade.

Also, I refuse to believe that people from Tagore, Sardar Patel, KM Munshi, etc., were all taken in by a Britshit creation and modern historians have revealed all of them to be idiots.

[S_Madhukar]

the man was a wily politician and a shadowy fixer with focus on non majority issues

Chetak ji, this rejoinder is the best write up I have seen about the person who screwed up many things for India including Banditji's selection as PM, over-riding Patel ji's genuine elected post of PM. Indians will realize the enormous damage done to India by the initial leaders of Kangress over time.

Noob Q but do we know why Dandi and Bandit were so revered that Khangress let them get away. I mean a Sardar Patel should have revolted … specially looking at how Bose went… Patel looked like Bhishma Pitamaha then … points to a massive cultural and psychological failure … yes times were different and violence was on so may be they wanted to just get on with it but we must use this as a prime example of wrong decisions
And incompetence in government. I can imagine a Vajpayee like person doing the same… who knows Bandit might have privately threatened something

[chetak]

Chetak ji, this rejoinder is the best write up I have seen about the person who screwed up many things for India including Banditji's selection as PM, over-riding Patel ji's genuine elected post of PM. Indians will realize the enormous damage done to India by the initial leaders of Kangress over time.

Noob Q but do we know why Dandi and Bandit were so revered that Khangress let them get away. I mean a Sardar Patel should have revolted … specially looking at how Bose went… Patel looked like Bhishma Pitamaha then … points to a massive cultural and psychological failure … yes times were different and violence was on so may be they wanted to just get on with it but we must use this as a prime example of wrong decisions
And incompetence in government. I can imagine a Vajpayee like person doing the same… who knows Bandit might have privately threatened something

S_Madhukar ji,

there is a far more logical explanation

the britshits wanted neverwho and they would not have been able to manage the Sardar

the less said about the stretcher-bearer and his political shenanigans the better.


The manchurian candidate system worked well until 2014

[Manish_P]

> ....

Also, I refuse to believe that people from Tagore, Sardar Patel, KM Munshi, etc., were all taken in by a Britshit creation and modern historians have revealed all of them to be idiots.

Sardar Patel and KM Munshi were not 'taken in'. The actions of the Sardar are quite clear and well known.

About K M Munshi

During his tenure of home minister, he suppressed the communal riots in Bombay.

As the demand for Pakistan gathered momentum, he gave up non-violence and supported the idea of a civil war to compel the Muslims to give up their demand. He believed that the future of Hindus and Muslims lay in unity in an "Akhand Hindustan".[11] He left Congress in 1941 due to dissents with Congress, but was invited back in 1946 by Mahatma Gandhi.[9][7]

After the independence of India, Munshi, Sardar Patel and N. V. Gadgil visited the Junagadh State to stabilise the state with help of the Indian Army. In Junagadh, Patel declared the reconstruction of the historically important Somnath temple. Patel died before the reconstruction was completed. Munshi became the main driving force behind the renovation of the Somnath temple even after Jawaharlal Nehru's opposition.

In 1959, Munshi separated from the Nehru-dominated (socialist) Congress Party and started the Akhand Hindustan movement. He believed in a strong opposition, so along with Chakravarti Rajagopalachari, he founded the Swatantra Party, which was right-wing in its politics, pro-business, pro-free market economy and private property rights.

[A_Gupta]

As I have written before, criticism of Gandhi is fine; inventing your own “historical facts” to do so is not. This deluge of lies and misinformation does no one any good.

I saw this on another thread, the slogan at the bottom is absolutely correct.

[Shanmukh]

FYI, Subhas Bose named one of the INA brigades the Gandhi Bigade.

The brigade was named after Gandhi in September 1942. It was done by Mohan Singh and the other top brass of the then INA, not by Subhash Bose. Subhash Bose was not even in Burma at the time of the naming of the brigade. Subhash Bose simply allowed the brigade to continue with the same name.

[chetak]

As I have written before, criticism of Gandhi is fine; inventing your own “historical facts” to do so is not. This deluge of lies and misinformation does no one any good.

A_Gupta ji,

The reality of ghundhy's (and neverwho) roles are now increasingly getting exposed. the imaginary history that is still being pushed as the factual by the commies, congis and the woke BIF is showing it's frayed construct and the devious intent that motivated its venomous origins and cancerous spread.

Not for nothing are such éminences grises hated in africa and their statues are being pulled down.

Unlike in India, there was never any narrative run in africa by the BIF to deify ghundhy, so the africans have the true facts in all their naked glory.

Does anyone wonder as to why such "historical facts" in africa differ so much from the same "historical facts" in India

how and why did India have so many muslim "education" ministers post independence or was that a mere coincidence to some peoples way of thinking and interpreting. Again, there are not just “historical facts” but criminal acts in a newly independent India trying to find her feet and establish stability

BTW, what exactly did a partitioned India owe these pigs whose jihadi culture was responsible for the vivisection of the motherland. So the real question is who were the shadowy figures behind neverwho's throne and why were they there. They were there because they never really left India. They had merely changed hats and continued as before with a new brown मुखौटा in place of the original white and that continued till 2014 barring the tenures of PVNR and ABA

on what basis was the result of the election that overwhelmingly preferred the Sardar overturned, and ghundhy slyly installed neverwho as the potential pm frontrunner. he was allegedly neither a member of the congi party, and nor was he a "politician" so on what basis did he "overturn" the election

Was this democracy or was it on orders from his non majority constituency that undoubtedly included the britshits

this was not an innocent act and neither was it in the interests of the Indian civilization nor the future prospects of the emerging sovereign state of India.

Post independence, the Hindu was tightly constrained and the abrahamics were mollycoddled by the state and that continues to date and the cost of such largesse is borne by the majority, and that partisan attitude of the state also reaffirmed their false sense of entitlement, while increasing their strong feelings of victimhood which was reinforced by their strong cultural belief in the so called historically inherited and religiously inherent right of the conqueror to rule over the conquered, thus they believed that their inborn and ingrained rights to rule over the "inferior" Hindus was being violated and was in direct contradiction to their long held assumption that they came from a superior race and culture. All this was not very conducive to the peaceful formation and social progress of a newly independent sovereign state

one should take a fresh look at these so called “historical facts” that some people lay such great store by They are pure unadulterated fiction.

The massive backlash that the introduction of the "new ugc rules" has unleashed has not even caused a blip on the forum and yet posters wax eloquent on what is happening in some hick town in texas or whatever

ghundhy and neverwho have nil relevance in today's India. We are well past that stage where we need them (if indeed, we ever did need them in the first place). Indian independence was won by people who fought for it in the only way that the britshits understood, not by fakirs who bleated non violence but stayed very very quiet when the jihadis were involved in the perpetration of the violence against the Hindus, and these are a few of the uncomfortable "historical facts". Many historians actually say that ghundhy's antics delayed India's independence by as much as 10 years

Nishikant Dubey has raked up the entire neverwho खानदानी history and geography in parliament. Matters suppressed for decades have been revealed and their shenanigans have been exposed, including arrests in the US by the FBI for carrying cash close to $200K

The Henderson brooks report on the 1962 war will probably be made public because as Dubey said why was it suppressed at all and probably several banned books concerning the mafia खानदानी acts of omission and commission may well be unbanned as well. The blowback will be very damaging to the mafia in particular and the party in general

The congis and the mafia will rue the day that papooze opened this door on the floor of the parliament and the repercussion from the backblast will singe the mafia and erode their carefully constructed façade of being the singular entity that was instrumental in India getting her freedom

[chetak]

FYI, Subhas Bose named one of the INA brigades the Gandhi Bigade.

The brigade was named after Gandhi in September 1942. It was done by Mohan Singh and the other top brass of the then INA, not by Subhash Bose. Subhash Bose was not even in Burma at the time of the naming of the brigade. Subhash Bose simply allowed the brigade to continue with the same name.

Shanmukh saar,

Given the INA's ideology, one is very sure that the name "Gandhi Brigade" was sarcastically bestowed.

This would also have had the added benefit of infuriating the britshits, apart from pissing off the congis and the great man himself. It's no wonder that Subhash Bose allowed the name to continue........

In college, when a group of friends went out together, one remembers a "gandhi account" that was not only self explanatory but was also very apt

[A_Gupta]

Of course, sarcasm was a mighty force. “ On 6 July 1944, in a speech broadcast by the Azad Hind Radio from Singapore, Bose addressed Mahatma Gandhi as the “Father of the Nation” and asked for his blessings and good wishes for the war he was fighting.”

Netaji’s sarcasm was a huge inspiration to the Indian National Army, which had the motto “one sarcastic statement of Netaji is worth one lakh bullets”.

What is amazing to me is that seemingly no one here can understand that people can have political differences and yet respect each other. I guess this is the result of the slow poisoning of politics post-Independence.

[Shanmukh]

Of course, sarcasm was a mighty force. “ On 6 July 1944, in a speech broadcast by the Azad Hind Radio from Singapore, Bose addressed Mahatma Gandhi as the “Father of the Nation” and asked for his blessings and good wishes for the war he was fighting.”

Netaji’s sarcasm was a huge inspiration to the Indian National Army, which had the motto “one sarcastic statement of Netaji is worth one lakh bullets”.

What is amazing to me is that seemingly no one here can understand that people can have political differences and yet respect each other. I guess this is the result of the slow poisoning of politics post-Independence.

Gupta-garu,
There was a genuine dislike between Gandhi and Bose. This is clear from the way they both sabotaged each other at every opportunity, sniped at each other, and genuinely believed that the other was leading the Congress in the wrong direction. But they both realised that they needed the other. Bose could win the election for the Congress presidency, but could not run the Congress without Gandhi's approval. Gandhi could sabotage Bose, but was unable to take many state Congresses with him, if Bose were driven out. And in the end, he bit the bullet and had Bose expelled, killing the Bengal Congress and badly weakening the Madras and Punjab Congress, since these were the areas where Bose had significant support.

They would publicly say some nice things about each other. Gandhi would publicly laud Bose's patriotism, and Bose would claim that he was the foremost of Gandhi's supporters, but this was mainly messaging to get each other's supporters to at least tone down their criticism.

As for the claim that Gandhi nominated Nehru over Patel, that decision goes back to 1942 and the Quit India Movement. Gandhi and Patel backed the Quit India movement half-heartedly, and this killed their chances of deciding things, since it blotted out their copy book with the British. It was not so much that Gandhi pushed Nehru to the top, as the British pushing Nehru [who was their favoured candidate]. By the end of the war, the British were in the driver's seat, and they decided who would become the next prime minister, and also, the division of the country. Gandhi and Patel had lost too much power during the Quit India movement, weakening them inside the Congress. There is a deep problem with the simplistic analyses about 'Patel vs Nehru' or 'Gandhi vs Patel', etc. It is a structural weakness of the Congress that they had nothing to counter the British with in terms of street power [they had themselves weakened and defanged those who could have fought it out on the streets against the British+Muslim League]. Anyway, this 'Indo-UK thread' is not the place to even debate all these points which are extremely involved and would require us to go over the primary documents of the last days of the Raj and many things here are subject to interpretation. So, I will stop here.

[A_Gupta]

I will just say I have a large collection of primary documents. This project was part way, and grew from there.
https://sites.google.com/view/cabinetmi ... -plan-1946

What I do not have is is JLN’s works.

[Shanmukh]

I will just say I have a large collection of primary documents. This project was part way, and grew from there.
https://sites.google.com/view/cabinetmi ... -plan-1946

What I do not have is is JLN’s works.

We looked at the topic using primary writings of Gandhi, Bose and Nehru from 1930s and 1940s, and how things evolved in a series of articles here. https://sringeribelur.com/

You can see our series on Gandhi and Bose.

The problem is, as I said, the fact that Gandhi and Patel, by supporting the Quit India movement, had made themselves the enemies of the British, and the British were in power after the war; so, they decided who the prime minister would be. So, there wasn't much that Gandhi and/or Patel could do to make Patel the PM.