Manish_Sharma wrote: ↑05 Mar 2026 05:44
drnayar wrote: ↑04 Mar 2026 03:36
shouldn't we stop calling the Su57 as 5th gen at least in BRF ., the Su57 is a 4+[+] gen fighter with some 5th gen technologies..
Can you elaborate reasons it's only 4+[+] gen just like you did about Su30 airframe cost/upgrade brilliant post?
& why f22 f35 j20 are superior + actual 5th gens?
The Su 57 has 5th-gen features—internal weapons bays, sensor fusion, and AESA radar—with high-agility thrust-vectoring engines., the focus is on on maneuverability than pure stealth.
Stealth and Design: Designed with radar-absorbing materials and a shaped airframe, but RCS is higher than Western counterparts., this only optimised in certain aspects
Performance: supercruise (dry thrust) and capable of extreme post-stall maneuvers.
Avionics: Features a 360° situational awareness suite with nose-mounted and side-mounted AESA radars.
Weapons: Equipped with large internal bays for long-range air-to-air missiles like the R-37.
RCS: significantly higher compared to the F-22 and F-35, which are designed to be low-observable in the range. While it utilizes advanced composite materials and shaping, the Su-57's design retains prominent exposed engine fans and rivets that create a larger radar signature. There has be improvement in later iterations with flat 2D nozzles and better thermal management.
Su-57 RCS: Estimates suggest the Su-57 has an RCS of MORE THAN 0.1m2, making it less stealthy than the F-22 and closer to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. It prioritizes maneuverability and multirole capabilities over maximum stealth.
F-22 Raptor RCS: The F-22 is highly optimized for stealth, with an estimated RCS of around to 0.0001 to 0.0005m2 (often compared to a marble).
F-35 Lightning II RCS: The F-35 has an exceptionally low RCS, often cited at less than 0.005m2 making it less stealthy than the F-22 and less specialized for air superiority., more omni-role keeping in line requirements from diverse services like Navy and the Marines.
The F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II are "true" 5th-gen fighters, whereas the Su-57 Felon is often characterized as a hybrid, combining high agility and advanced avionics with moderate stealth.
The Su-57's divergence from the F-22 and F-35 is a result of a fundamentally different Russian design philosophy, coupled with severe industrial limitations and specific geographical defensive needs.
Design Philosophy: The "Stealth Hunter"
Russia prioritizes "Stealthy Maneuverability" over the "All-Aspect Stealth" favored by the U.S..
Asymmetric Response: Rather than trying to out-stealth the F-22, the Su-57 is designed as a "stealth hunter". It uses a multi-spectral sensor suite, including L-band wing radars and IRST (Infrared Search and Track), to detect low-observable targets that are optimized primarily against X-band radar.
Supermaneuverability:
Russian doctrine remains committed to the idea that stealth is not invincible. If an engagement enters visual range the Su-57’s 3D thrust-vectoring and superior agility are intended to give it a decisive edge in a dogfight.
Frontal Optimization: The aircraft is mostly optimized for frontal stealth (a 60-degree arc), reflecting its role
as a defensive interceptor that meets threats head-on
within Russia's own integrated air defense network
Aerospace Industry Limitations
Russia's inability to match U.S. stealth levels stems from long-standing manufacturing and economic hurdles:
Manufacturing Tolerances: Russian industry has struggled with the
extreme precision required for stealth. Early models were criticized for exposed rivets and panel gaps that act as radar reflectors. While production models have improved, they still lack the seamless finishes of the F-35.
Engine Delays: The Su-57 has spent years flying with the AL-41F1, an upgraded 4th-gen engine. The true 5th-gen Izdeliye 30 (offering supercruise and better thermal masking) only reached testing in recent years and is not yet in full fleet-wide service.
Sanctions & Avionics: Western sanctions have significantly impacted the supply of high-precision semiconductors and microelectronics. This has led to some aircraft being delivered with incomplete targeting systems or outdated sensors.
3. Geographical & Strategic Context
Defensive Interceptor: Unlike the F-35, which is an expeditionary "first-day-of-war" penetrator, the Su-57 is a territorial defender. It is designed to operate under the protection of massive ground-based S-400/S-500 SAM systems, which fill the gaps in its own stealth.
Long Reach: Russia's massive borders require long-range performance. The Su-57 prioritizes high speed (Mach 2+) and heavy internal payloads, such as the R-37M long-range missile (300km+ range), to neutralize high-value NATO assets like tankers and AWACS from a distance.
Cost & Production: Russia cannot afford the high maintenance costs of delicate U.S.-style stealth coatings.
The Su-57 is built to be a more rugged and affordable multirole platform that can be produced even under economic strain.
