Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

On India’s fighter jet acquisitions
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 699109.ece
05 Mar 2026

[Rakesh]

India is now seeking access to the Rafale's Interface Control Document (ICD) due to difficulties in obtaining source code
https://www-indomiliter-com.translate.g ... r_pto=wapp
02 March 2026

The ICD Solution as a Middle Ground?

Recognizing France's rigidity in providing raw source code, India has opened up the option of access through an ICD (Interface Control Document). If source code is the core programming language of a computer, then the ICD is the "USB port" that allows external devices (such as Indian missiles) to connect and function instantly. Access to the ICD is considered a more reasonable compromise. With the ICD, India can independently integrate weapons without having to learn the inner workings of the Rafale's core algorithms. This gives the Indian Air Force (IAF) the flexibility to adapt its fleet to meet the needs of the dynamic battlefield in South Asia.

The fate of additional Rafale contracts, both for the Air Force version and the maritime version (Rafale M) for India's aircraft carriers, now depends heavily on the extent to which France is willing to relax its technological protectionism. France views India as a key strategic partner in the Indo-Pacific, but India is also an increasingly discerning customer demanding tangible technology transfers.

If this deal goes through, India's Rafale would be one of the most unique fighter jets in the world—a Western platform with the muscle of a powerful indigenous weaponry. However, if this stalemate continues, New Delhi may begin to look at alternatives that are more open to technology sharing, a signal the defense industry in Paris will surely be wary of.

[drnayar]

India is now seeking access to the Rafale's Interface Control Document (ICD) due to difficulties in obtaining source code
https://www-indomiliter-com.translate.g ... r_pto=wapp
02 March 2026

The ICD Solution as a Middle Ground?
If this deal goes through, India's Rafale would be one of the most unique fighter jets in the world—a Western platform with the muscle of a powerful indigenous weaponry. However, if this stalemate continues, New Delhi may begin to look at alternatives that are more open to technology sharing, a signal the defense industry in Paris will surely be wary of.

Thats a clear signal to Paris that Su 57 is a clear contender to the Rafale if they dont play ball

[bala]

Su-57 RCS: Estimates suggest the Su-57 has an RCS of MORE THAN 0.1m2, making it less stealthy than the F-22 and closer to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. It prioritizes maneuverability and multirole capabilities over maximum stealth.

Dr Nayar saab, good write up on Su-57. However I believe many things you said are based on old reports. Russia has been improving things like 2-D exhaust for engine flume IR signature and so on. I think the Russian are well informed about F-22 and F-35 and they are quite capable of matching or exceeding the Yanks. Over time the Su-57 could well be on par or beat the US in some areas.

Thats a clear signal to Paris that Su 57 is a clear contender to the Rafale if they dont play ball

If India is allowed MKI of Su-57, it would be better than the Rafale maal. The AMCA experience must have taught Indian designers a few things. Integrating Indian weapons, computer, avionics etc would make Su-57 another beast in its class.

[Rakesh]

Dassault Gears Up For Rafale Output Uptick, Indian Production
https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircra ... production
04 March 2026

[drnayar]

i had focussed more on Su 57 capabilities and the Russian design philosophy in their context.
The J20s are a non starter in indian context.

Nations build armaments based on their requirements, cost effectiveness, sustainability . One nations arms may or may not suit others requirements.

Politics and economics greatly influence purchase of armaments ., the gold standard may not be suitable and indeed may be undesirable in many contexts.

Choose the arms you can sustain and fight with, ultimately it is the man/brains or AI behind the machine that counts.

x post

The F35 / F22 and the B2/21 can launch weapons without any sensor lock with scan/sensor/targeting data live from satellites in real time ., the sensor shooter time essentially shortened to the time the missile reaches the target., while the aircraft itself is protected by its inherent stealth and no active transmission.

That's why the F35/22 and the stealth bombers make sense for America ., take way the targeting capability and sensor fusion between shooter and sensor platform the whole system degrades by several degrees

Americans hyped and marketed the F35s the way it has been done is to take advantage of the scale of economies., and also to create critical dependency on the American military industrial complex

The allies lack the satellite capability and global sensor availability of the Americans

The systems on F35 and F22 are essentially plug and play to work within the broad American sensor architecture. Makes absolutely no sense for any other country.

[drnayar]

Su-57 RCS: Estimates suggest the Su-57 has an RCS of MORE THAN 0.1m2, making it less stealthy than the F-22 and closer to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. It prioritizes maneuverability and multirole capabilities over maximum stealth.

Dr Nayar saab, good write up on Su-57. However I believe many things you said are based on old reports. Russia has been improving things like 2-D exhaust for engine flume IR signature and so on. I think the Russian are well informed about F-22 and F-35 and they are quite capable of matching or exceeding the Yanks. Over time the Su-57 could well be on par or beat the US in some areas.

If India is allowed MKI of Su-57, it would be better than the Rafale maal. The AMCA experience must have taught Indian designers a few things. Integrating Indian weapons, computer, avionics etc would make Su-57 another beast in its class.
[/quote]

I think the Russians will bring their all aspect stealth tech to their bombers which will be fielded in far lesser numbers and also at much grater costs. There might come a time when the machinery and capability costs to maintain such high degree of stealth come down especially with AI, Robotics and materials development., but then such is the progress of military tech that even this capability will be compromised by superior detection technologies., for example using a wider electromagnetic spectrum and on much wider bands than is currently possible that the current stealth is not optimised against.

Emerging Detection Technologies
Quantum Radar: Utilizing quantum illumination and photon entanglement, these systems can theoretically detect faint returns hidden deep within background noise that conventional radars would miss.
Multi-Static and Passive Radar: Rather than relying on a single transmitter/receiver, these networks use scattered signals from multiple sources (like commercial cell towers or FM radio) to "see" a stealth aircraft from angles it was not designed to deflect.
Low-Frequency (VHF/UHF) Arrays: While traditional stealth is optimized against high-frequency targeting radars (X-band), lower-frequency early warning radars can trigger resonance from aircraft parts like tail fins, revealing their presence.
Advanced Infrared Search and Track (IRST): High-sensitivity multi-color infrared imaging can now detect the thermal friction of an aircraft moving through the air, bypassing radar-absorbent materials entirely

India will do well if it can focus on its indigenous sensor systems especially satellites and pair them with indigenously developed fighter/bomber platforms with focus on unmanned.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/2030948 ... 17373?s=20 ---> Dassault Aviation and Hical Technologies, a Bengaluru-based aerospace manufacturer for high-precision electromechanical systems, has signed a long-term contract to manufacture, and supply high-precision control system assemblies for the Rafale fighter aircraft. "The contract marks a significant step in India's integration into global aerospace supply chains beyond final assembly and into precision, high-value engineering."

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Tsukuyomi2170/status/2030 ... 15992?s=20 --->

* Don't back your own domestic programs like Tejas.
* Don't fund the upgrade of the Su-30MKI
* Don't fund your own engine programs or even basic testing facilities
* Drag MRFA for 20 years

And then justify that Rafales with 35 billion dollars are our only salvation.

[Rakesh]

Dassault targets Indian contract for blockbuster Rafale order by year-end
https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/da ... 22.article
04 March 2026

Dassault Gears Up For Rafale Output Uptick, Indian Production
https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircra ... production
04 March 2026

[Rakesh]

A New Phase in India–France Defence Ties: From Procurement to Co-Development
https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ ... evelopment
24 Feb 2026

India–France defence ties deepen through Rafale expansion and AMCA co-development, with expanded technology transfer and co-production, as 2026 marks the India–France Year of Innovation.

[Rakesh]

Why India Wants Rafale’s Source Code So Badly
https://jetlinemarvel.net/why-india-wan ... -so-badly/
03 March 2026

[Rakesh]

We have a shortage of 13+ squadrons right now (29 versus 42). By time all the 180 Tejas Mk1As (~ 9 squadrons) get inducted by the middle of the next decade; the 3 MiG-29, 2.5 Mirage 2000 and ~ 6 squadrons of Jaguars will have all been retired or will be close to retiring. Post the retirement of these aircraft, the squadron strength will dip to around 26 squadrons.

By the mid-2030s, the Tejas Mk2 will just have begun to enter production. What should the IAF do to address the gap between now and when the Tejas Mk2 is inducted in numbers enough to make a difference? There are 99 F414 turbofans in negotiations right now between India and the US. That is around five squadrons worth of Tejas Mk2. Anything above that is only a plan and not set in stone. Now since we do not have our own turbofan and the IAF needs numbers....what aircraft will we fill it with, if Unkil decides to go rogue and/or if the MRFA deal is cancelled?

https://x.com/Tracking_Live/status/2034 ... 98349?s=20 ---> In next 10 years, the Indian Air Force will retire total of 12 squadrons from its fleet officially, which includes:

* 6 squadrons of SEPECAT Jaguar
* 3 squadrons of MiG-29UPG
* 3 squadrons of Mirage-2000I

If you take 12 squadrons away, then you will have 17 (out of 29) left. Now lets consider even if you add 12+ squadrons by the next 10 years (which is also uncertain) it will be still less than sanctioned strength of 42.5 squadron strength. If you want to reach that position of 42 squadrons, then you need to add 2.5 squadrons for next 10 years straight.

Where are the options? Tejas Mk1A is delayed (not a single delivered from last 5 years, even original 40 are not delivered fully), Tejas Mk2 is super delayed for the next 2 years. AMCA is still being discussed on papers that who will make it and vendors, etc. While only Rafale will be delivered by Dassault, if deal signed ASAP. Su-30MKIs are carrying us, with Super Sukhoi updates waiting (No CCS approval).

We are choice-less in this environment, are we?

[VinodTK]

^^^^ IAF is the weakest link when compared to IA & IN.

Yet IAF has been successful in stalling the Theaterisation of the armed forces. Sad part is the MOD seems to wringing its hands and listening to the complaints put forward by IAF. MoD picked two IAF chiefs in a row, who opposed Theaterisation in some form or the other. Hope the next Air Chief they pick is for Indigenization and Theaterisation 100%.

[uddu]

https://x.com/Tracking_Live/status/2034 ... 98349?s=20 ---> Where are the options? Tejas Mk1A is delayed (not a single delivered from last 5 years, even original 40 are not delivered fully), Tejas Mk2 is super delayed for the next 2 years. AMCA is still being discussed on papers that who will make it and vendors, etc. While only Rafale will be delivered by Dassault, if deal signed ASAP. Su-30MKIs are carrying us, with Super Sukhoi updates waiting (No CCS approval).

We are choice-less in this environment, are we?

Tejas MK1A will start getting delivered once the IAF takes a decision. Yes 5 of them based on the engine.

But this is a good time to upgrade the initial lot to MK1A standard. Probably by end of this year, once the complete upgrade of MK1A is certified on the new aircraft's the process for MK1 upgrade to MK1A should be starting. The groundwork for the same should be starting now. Upgrade them with the Uttam AESA as same as the one's going into the second lot of Tejas MK1A. This will give formidable capability for the IAF. Atleast there are no issues with engines for the same for these lot.

[Rakesh]

^^^^ IAF is the weakest link when compared to IA & IN.

Yet IAF has been successful in stalling the Theaterisation of the armed forces. Sad part is the MOD seems to wringing its hands and listening to the complaints put forward by IAF. MoD picked two IAF chiefs in a row, who opposed Theaterisation in some form or the other. Hope the next Air Chief they pick is for Indigenization and Theaterisation 100%.

Saar, there has not been a single Air Chief that is in favour of theaterisation.

Doctrine wise, Air HQ opposes it because it hampers their ability to deploy assets to various theatres. And with the squadron shortage they are facing, they are opposing it tooth-and-nail. What is already scarce, will become non-existant via theaterisation.

IDS (Integrated Defence Staff) operates effectively in New Delhi, as the assets involved (DCyA, DSA, AFSOD and Missile Rocket Command) are strategic in nature. But no senior air force officer is eager to have an army or navy officer as his/her superior via theaterisation and have the latter tell the former how to operate. Find out how eager Air HQ and Naval HQ would be to partner together on a combined Rafale order (MRCBF + MRFA). Naval air power is harakiri to the IAF But this is not something that is unique to India, as inter service rivalries are famous the world over.

Back in the 80s when the AAC (Army Aviation Corps) was being set up, the IAF was firmly opposed to it. The IAF leadership at that time remarked that the Army had no business setting up its own "mini" air force. Air HQ's view is that air power is solely the domain of the air force. Conversely, as soon as Air HQ got its hands on the AH-64 Apache (apparently to shoot down drones!), the AAC jumped in and wanted AH-64s for its own attack helicopter fleet. The original requirement was for 39 helicopters I believe (13 each for the three Strike Corps). Got pared down to just six airframes by the MoD, as the contract for the HAL Prachand (thank goodness!) killed that idea, for now!

Indigenization is a joke among all three services. It is just that Air HQ is the public face of the services' preference for imported maal. The 114 MRFA program and the 6th generation fighter program are mogging all the limelight, due to their exorbitant cost. But the Army and Navy are no saints.

[Rakesh]

If true, this is fairly amazing. I am still trying to figure out how Dassault pulled this off. I suspect this will be a Rafale B (twin seater) variant, which is *NOT* carrier compatible. Dassault likely took one air frame off the production line (destined for their local customer i.e. France) and re-designated it towards a foreign customer, in this case...India. But I will wait for official confirmation.

Industry standard is three years (minimum) from contract signing to first delivery. The contract for the 22 Rafale Ms + 4 Rafale Bs was signed in April 2025 and as per the tweet below, the first Rafale for the Indian Navy will be delivered in Sept 2026. That is like 17 months (less than a year and a half).

https://x.com/InsightGL/status/2036241875011772670?s=20 --->

- Indian Navy to receive first of the 26 Rafale M fighters worth Rs 60,000 crore deal by Sep 2026
- India has ordered 26 Rafales for the 2 aircraft-carriers, the INS Vikramaditya & the INS Vikrant
- Rafale M will eventually replace the Russian MiG-29K fighters

[Rakesh]

^^^

https://x.com/Tracking_Live/status/2036 ... 90915?s=20 ---> First Rafale for Indian Navy will be handed over to Indian Navy in August-September. (Times Now). If true, it is likely one of the four trainer aircraft (which will be land-based) being given since first Rafale was to arrive only in 2028.

https://x.com/thegeo_sync/status/203639 ... 26662?s=20 ---> Some reports, including claims attributed to Times Now, suggest that the first Rafale for the Indian Navy could arrive by August–September 2026. As of now, there is no official confirmation from the Government of India, Indian Navy, or Dassault Aviation supporting this timeline.

The official schedule remains:
First Rafale M delivery in 2028
Complete delivery by 2030

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/connect_rishav/status/203 ... 77459?s=20 ---> Presenting fan-made illustrations of Dassault Rafale M (single seat) & Rafale B (twin seat) in Indian Navy liveries, including tribute schemes inspired by Hawker Sea Hawk-era colours. Featuring the insignia & emblem of INAS 315 “Winged Stallions” and a fictional unit: INAS 121 “Shadow Sharks.”

[Manish_Sharma]

While GoI keeps getting pulled into 6th Gen Euro jets:

https://x.com/saif_aldareei/status/2040 ... 24195?s=20 --->

The UAE has withdrawn from funding the development of the new Rafale F5 after France refused to transfer advanced technology.
The message is clear:
Real partnership with genuine technology transfer — or no deal.

While Sharks (i.e. Su-57 fans) are circling

https://x.com/_TheUnknown007_/status/20 ... 96425?s=20

QUIT RAFALE, CHOOSE SU-57: INDIA'S ONLY WAY OUT.

Good decision by UAE and a wake up call for India. We should either quit the 114 Rafale deal or cut it short to three squadrons maximum.

The reason is simple. France will not give us the source code, and even if ICD is given on paper, we will still pay millions every time we integrate domestic weapons into the Rafale. This is the same Mirage story repeating itself. When through 36 Rafales in 2016, 114 Rafales incoming, 26 Naval Rafales and 31 Naval Rafales in the future, India is paying France more than Dassault spent on the entire Rafale programme, which stands at around 45 billion dollars against what will be over 55 billion dollars from India alone. Rafale is a capable jet but the cost makes it a white elephant, and France giving ICD access is not the victory people are celebrating it as.

The better option was always the Su-57. It is cheaper than the Rafale, and Russia will give India more control over it than France ever will over the Rafale. An Su-57 fitted with Indian EW suites, radars and avionics will be far more capable than an expensive 4.5gen. Rafale. And for those who argue the Su-57 is not as stealthy as the F-35, that comparison misses the point entirely. The F-35 is an offensive penetrator built around the US doctrine of striking first and penetrating enemy air defences deep inside hostile territory. The Su-57 is a defensive interceptor built around the Russian doctrine of denying airspace and defending against incoming threats while staying within its own airspace. India is a defensive nation, not an aggressive one like the US or Israel. The Su-57 doctrine matches India's national security doctrine far better than the F-35 ever could.

On CAATSA, the US is in no position to sanction India right now or in future. Washington is stuck in a humiliating war in Iran, its superpower image is crumbling, and even its European allies are no longer taking orders. Sanctioning India under these conditions is something the US simply cannot afford. And if they do impose sanctions, we have survived their sanctions before also. National security cannot be compromised out of fear of the US if India genuinely wants to become a global power.

Russia's defence industry is at peak production capacity and unlike Dassault has no backlog of export orders, so Su-57 deliveries can be faster if an understanding is reached. Russia is already considering making India an export hub to bypass CAATSA, collaborating with Indian manufacturers and to build S-400, S-500, Su-35 and Su-57 in India to build a BrahMos style ecosystem where Russia sells through India and both share the benefits. This will help India in indegenisation of Defence Sector. The recent visit of Russian DPM Manturov accompanied by the Rostec chief to India signals that the GoI is finally beginning to understand this.

The way forward is clear. Quit or cut short the Rafale deal. Go for the Su-57. Order more Su-30MKI from HAL and fast track the Super Sukhoi upgrade. As Tejas is irrelevant until India has its own engine because GE will keep delaying engines and won't let Tejas production pick up momentum. Strengthen the Integrated Air Defence with more layers and numbers. Accelerate the indigenous hypersonic missile programme and BrahMos-2. And build a drone army of at least 1L on each front with serious innovation investment in drone tech.

[Manish_Sharma]

https://x.com/vkthakur/status/2040227864407392411?s=20

The problem with interface only access is that the source code could have accidentally or deliberately planted limitations that the operating country is not aware of. A limitation that does not affect the OEM country.

In early 1980s, the IAF acquired Durandal runway penetration bombs for the Jaguar aircraft. Several years after acquiring the bomb, the IAF realised that it could not release the bomb from Jaguar aircraft due to a software bug.

There is a good case for the entire source code to be made available to the operator country.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

https://x.com/GeostratB/status/2040394018572611944?s=20

Dassault Rafale

* 0 Air to Air kills in combat history
* Weakest possible radar in the 4.5th Gen category
* Grounded during operations by GCC Operators
* Needed 25 years old Su-30MKI to clean up its shit during India Pakistan war.

A CLASSIC USELESS OVERPRICED WHITE ELEPHANT.

[Cybaru]

https://x.com/vkthakur/status/2040227864407392411?s=20
....

if you want source code, you have to write it yourself. NO two ways around it.

[Manish_P]

...
https://x.com/GeostratB/status/2040394018572611944?s=20
...
* Needed 25 years old Su-30MKI to clean up its shit during India Pakistan war.
...

Which war would this be?

IAF used Mirages for bombing Kargil heights (top cover provided by the MiG 29s)

IAF used Mirages for the airstrike post Balakot (Su 30 MKIs, Mig-21 were the primary active participants in the defensive action post the strike)

IAF used Rafales and Su 30 MKIs in Operation Sindoor, both complementing each other well in their respective roles

The only shit which they cleaned up was the jihadi kind.

[pravula]

https://x.com/vkthakur/status/2040227864407392411?s=20

The problem with interface only access is that the source code could have accidentally or deliberately planted limitations that the operating country is not aware of. A limitation that does not affect the OEM country.

In early 1980s, the IAF acquired Durandal runway penetration bombs for the Jaguar aircraft. Several years after acquiring the bomb, the IAF realised that it could not release the bomb from Jaguar aircraft due to a software bug.

There is a good case for the entire source code to be made available to the operator country.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

That is due to IAF's incompetence. They should either have tested before or during delivery.

[Rakesh]

The last two tweets below is why the 114 Rafale purchase exists. A purchase that would not be occurring, had we had our own turbofan.

As long as you have fighter jocks manning the upper echelons of Air HQ, the Rafale will arrive. The rest of us are just mere spectators who will complain about the cost of the import.

https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/2041 ... 65424?s=20 ---> During Operation Sindoor, the ISR that Pakistan was getting was from the people in the northern side (China), says Air Marshal N Tiwari (Retd), the "then" IAF Vice Chief says at the launch of the book ‘The Sky Warriors’ written by @VishnuNDTV. Moderated by @ShivAroor.

https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/2041 ... 00987?s=20 ---> When operations are on, talking about losses are the last thing on mind. Look at current operations, has the US or Israel accepted losses that has not come into public? Is the media there asking questions on losses? It is better to be in the grey zone when it comes to losses, says the retired Air Marshal.

https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/2041 ... 72199?s=20 ---> Drones have come in and will stay, but it will not make a strategic impact in warfare, says the retired Air Marshal.

https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/2041 ... 75628?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Tiwari (Retd) speaks out against rocket force and stresses on modern fighter aircraft. Says only countries like China and Russia have done. Iran was forced to do it. No western countries have done it.

[Rakesh]

And then there is this from Vice Admiral Harinder Singh (retd)...

Someone ask the good Vice Admiral if he is open to the idea of cancelling the Rafale M deal, in favour of his own advice below. What is good for the Goose, is good for the Gander, as the saying goes. An inter-service rivalry will start playing out now. Air HQ can taste the MRFA contract on its tongue and will claw back (with viciousness) over any "perceived" danger to its precious 114 Rafales.

IMVHO, there needs to be an alternative to the F404-powered Tejas Mk1A....so Air HQ can scale back from 114 Rafale airframes. We need an alternative turbofan for the Tejas Mk1A. And till then, we need to speed up the Super Sukhoi upgrade and do this ----> viewtopic.php?p=2677255#p2677255

Airpower’s reckoning: Lessons that we don't want to learn from Ukraine, Sindoor and Iran confrontations
https://www.theweek.in/news/defence/202 ... tions.html
05 April 2026

By Vice Admiral Harinder Singh (Retd)

Finally, India should reassess its appetite for more frightfully expensive 4.5 and 5th-generation fighters. High-end platforms and their numbers will still have roles, but they cannot be the sole pillar of airpower. Prioritise scalable unmanned systems, missile stockpiles, distributed sensors, and resilient C4ISR, backed by an industrial base that can turn design into massed effect. The sky has changed; our industrial response must change fast.

[Cybaru]

India is now seeking access to the Rafale's Interface Control Document (ICD) due to difficulties in obtaining source code
https://www-indomiliter-com.translate.g ... r_pto=wapp
02 March 2026

Folks - no one is going to give us anything other than lego parts to put together. If we want the engine, we will have to plonk cash and resources to make that happen. All this heavy hyperventilating and begging the French or Americans is a waste of time.

[Rakesh]

Odds are actually quite high that a follow on deal for Rafale M for the Navy will happen.

The 22 Rafale Ms are for INS Vikrant. The navy wants another batch for IAC-2, which is a follow on Vikrant Class vessel.

The original plan was for 57 MRCBF (Multi Role Carrier Borne Fighter). It was cut down to 26, due to budgetary issues. Now that a Rafale line is being established in India, the navy is pushing for another 31 airframes.

https://x.com/Aryan_warlord/status/2042 ... 10089?s=20 ---> Another 26 Rafale M all but signed, sang a little bird. That said, this is something I've stated since 2019. There will be 26 for IAC-1, 26 for IAC-2 (will happen soon). The TEDBF program will only fructify by 2035-37 & will be deployed on the first #IndianNavy Supercarriers starting 2045-47.

[Rakesh]

If Dassault does not agree to the below, the news in the post right above will also not materialize.

Rafale order plan: Govt to ensure jets can carry indigenous missiles
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 28849.html
10 April 2026

The defence ministry is expected to issue the Request For Proposal (RFP) to French jet maker Dassault in May, and contract negotiations will begin thereafter.

[VinodTK]

From: EU Perspectives
India-France 114 Rafale deal drifts into limbo over Russian access to codes

From:Defence Security Asia
India’s US$40 Billion Rafale Deal in Crisis as France Blocks Source Code Access Over Fears of BrahMos-Russia Tech Leak

From Defense Express
India’s 114 Rafale Deal Stalled Over Source Code Access, France Fears Russian Hands on Fighter Software Through Brahmosn

[Rakesh]

I read on X that the Russians are offering two squadrons of Su-57 sans the source code.

All of a sudden, Indian def twitter went eerily silent. Not a word of dissent or rona dhona.

Such behaviour is only reserved for French maal.

[Manish_Sharma]

I read on X that the Russians are offering two squadrons of Su-57 sans the source code.

All of a sudden, Indian def twitter went eerily silent. Not a word of dissent or rona dhona.

Such behaviour is only reserved for French maal.

Very very unfair assessment!

There was no rona dhona or even talk of source code when 36 rafale were bought off the shelf

Or even when naval rafale were bought

It all started with Op sindoor when rumors when pl-15 downing rafale was all over the internet BUT mighty METEOR was percieved to be either missing or was ineffectual; as porki jets & aew&cs were said to shot down by S400

Then news reports appeared that french weren't not even ready to give source code for 114 ToT rafale mfrg.

HAL integrated brahmos when russkies asked too much money, even ASRAAM inspite of russians griping

Now paying 877 crore for integration of Takshak torpedo to ToT Scorpenes

Even now we can't integrate anything on M2Ks

So it's only fair that no one asks source code for Su57s

In case a bigger deal happens for Su57, same people on twitter will be vying not just for source code but Virupaksha- ASPJ-Swadeshi irst on it (which nobody is demanding from dassault)

[Rakesh]

Very very unfair assessment!

The IAF operates ~ 260 Su-30MKIs and another 12 are on the production line. To date, Russia has not handed over the source code for these platforms. To compensate for this, Indian engineers overcame these restrictions by developing and installing indigenous mission computers. This "workaround" allowed India to successfully integrate desi weaponry, such as the BrahMos and Astra at a fraction of the cost Russia would have charged for such modifications. Under the current Super Sukhoi program, India is moving toward almost complete "sovereign control" of the fleet by replacing majority of Russian sub-systems with indigenous ones (aiming for over 78% local content), effectively bypassing the need for original Russian source codes for future upgrades.

Now with the Su-30MKI, India could do this. When India purchased the Su-30MKI, the OEM (Sukhoi) was in the financial doldrums. India literally resurrected Sukhoi out of the grave via the contract for Su-30 license assembly in India. Now India had the negotiating cards in her hand when formulating the contract for the Su-30MKI. With Dassault, that is not the case when 36 Rafales were purchased for the IAF in 2016, when 26 Rafales were purchased for the Navy in 2025 and if & when 114 Rafales will be purchased again for the IAF. Dassault is reaping in signficant profit and does not need to open its crown jewels to sell the Rafale.

We could have done a "watered down" variant of the Su-30MKI, had we purchased 140 Mirage 2000s back in the 1980s...as was proposed. Even when Dassault offered to transfer the entire production line of the Mirage 2000 to India in the early 2000s, something similar could have been achieved. Even without source code access to the Mirage 2000, we managed to successfully integrate R-73 onto the Mirage 2000. One can only imagine what could have been done, had India licensed produced the M2K in India. But these proposals never took effect. In the 1980s, the acquisition of the MiG-29 killed the M2K production line proposal and in the 2000s, it was the MMRCA 1.0 contract that killed it. India would not even have bought the Rafale, had there been a Mirage 2000 production line in India.

No OEM will give you source codes. Flip the scenario. If tomorrow India exports Tejas to a friendly country and that nation will demand source code access, India will not oblige. If we will not do this, then why are we expecting foreign OEMs to behave differently? We must drop the idea that foreign OEMs must fall at our feet and give us everything that we demand. This rona dhona is arising because we are spending a large sum of money to acquire 114 airframes and now we want the moon. But selling military hardware is a financially lucrative business and no OEM - especially one that is drowning in cash like Dassault - is about to reduce its profit margin, just because we want source code access.

This is not personal. It is business. If we do not want to spend this money, then develop a platform that is manufactured entirely in-house. But our home grown platform rests on a foreign engine to take off, both literally and figuratively.

[Manish_Sharma]

Now with the Su-30MKI, India could do this. When India purchased the Su-30MKI, the OEM (Sukhoi) was in the financial doldrums. India literally resurrected Sukhoi out of the grave via the contract for Su-30 production. India had the negotiating cards in her hand when formulating the Su-30MKI contract. With Dassault, that is not the case when 36 Rafales were purchased for the IAF in 2016, when 26 Rafales were purchased for the Navy in 2025 and if & when 114 Rafales will be purchased again for the IAF. Dassault is reaping in signficant profit and does not need to open its crown jewels to sell the Rafale.

Sukhoi WAS in financial trouble & we saved it thus we had bigger advantage at negotiation...

But now russia is in bigger trouble hence offering SOURCE CODE... which even we wouldn't give when selling Tejas...

So their offer is already more lucrative then french WHO are reaping benefits due to victory in mmrca (before that nobody was ready to touch rafale with a barge pole)

But then su57 becomes bigger benefit when SOURCE CODE OF Su-57 is being offered even before negotiations start.

Only thing russians are squirming at is we want Virupaksha & ASPJ on it instead of russian radar & jammer

In case bigger su57 deal happens with SOURCE code but minus Virupaksha Swadeshi radar then same twitterati will crib against su57 deal (which they'vnt against rbe radar of rafale)

https://instantshort.info/ihXLiD

[Rakesh]

Sukhoi WAS in financial trouble & we saved it thus we had bigger advantage at negotiation...

But now russia is in bigger trouble hence offering SOURCE CODE... which even we wouldn't give when selling Tejas...

The Rafale contract & negotiations are more than a decade in the works and is far more tangible to the MoD and Air HQ. The Su-57 is still in the early stages of a verbal offer. While the Russians have reportedly offered source code, a formal proposal would have to be studied by Air HQ to determine viability. I do believe the Su-57 will come, but not before the Rafale contract is signed.

So their offer is already more lucrative then french WHO are reaping benefits due to victory in mmrca (before that nobody was ready to touch rafale with a barge pole)

The contract for 36 Rafales - for the IAF - was signed in Sept 2016. Both Egypt and Qatar signed deals for the Rafale in 2015.

Just like with the Mirage 2000, Egypt was the launch customer for the Rafale.

As of 2026, Rafale has 8 international customers. Su-57 has 1 (Algeria).

[Manish_Sharma]

So their offer is already more lucrative then french WHO are reaping benefits due to victory in mmrca (before that nobody was ready to touch rafale with a barge pole)

The contract for 36 Rafales - for the IAF - was signed in Sept 2016. Both Egypt and Qatar signed deals for the Rafale in 2015.

Just like with the Mirage 2000, Egypt was the launch customer for the Rafale.

As of 2026, Rafale has 8 international customers. Su-57 has 1 (Algeria).

As i said :
benefits due to victory in mmrca (before that nobody was ready to touch rafale with a barge pole)

The decisions by other import customers was due to VICTORY in MMRCA

[Rakesh]

As i said :
benefits due to victory in mmrca (before that nobody was ready to touch rafale with a barge pole)

The decisions by other import customers was due to VICTORY in MMRCA

Demand of a particular platform is based on signed contracts and not technical downselects or L1 selections. AK Antony famously said that there was no money to buy 126 Rafales in 2014. And even today, there is no guarentee that a contract for 114 Rafales will be signed. Intent has to transition to a signed contract, otherwise it is mere khayali pulao.

The Su-57's first customer was India i.e. Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). How many international customers lined up to buy the Su-57, after India selected it? Not a single one. And to date, the only international customer of the Su-57 is Algeria. With India, there has only been a verbal offer of the Su-57 that has been made. Forget a signed contract, there is not even a formal proposal offered on paper.

Dassault's success with the Rafale, has little to do with India's technical downselect. Qatar bought Rafale, because they operate the Mirage 2000. Same with Egypt, UAE and Greece. It makes ample sense for these countries to transition from the Mirage 2000 to the Rafale, as the training involved is not intensive. OEM support from the same company also greatly helps.

[Rakesh]

Big Boost for IAF: India Pushes for Weapon Flexibility in 114 Rafale Mega Deal
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/iaf- ... -154085992
15 April 2026

[uddu]

IAF and DRDO Explore Upgrading Mirage 2000 with Astra Mk2 Missiles for Long-Range Interception Capability
https://defence.in/threads/iaf-and-drdo ... ity.17490/
17-4-2016

[Rakesh]

IAF and DRDO Explore Upgrading Mirage 2000 with Astra Mk2 Missiles for Long-Range Interception Capability
https://defence.in/threads/iaf-and-drdo ... ity.17490/
17-4-2016

Why is this in the Rafale thread???