Pakistani plot to explode dirty nuke foiled

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 11 Jun 2002 00:39

I think this incident will not affect the US Govt stance vis-a-vis TSP in any way. Is this the first time a TSPian or TSP trained operative has been found engaged in terrorist activities in US ? It won't be the last time either. The whole of America knows that most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi - that hasn't prevented America from absolving KSA as a state from the responsibility. The same will be true for any TSPian found in cooking a little radioactive cocktail inside America.

sandy · Post by **sandy** » 11 Jun 2002 00:43

Another two Pakis in US plotted to plant bombs in Florida-

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=10928#compstory

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 11 Jun 2002 00:54

time to visit pakdeaf dumb site!!

Nikhil Shah · Post by **Nikhil Shah** » 11 Jun 2002 01:08

Originally posted by Yash:
Probably true and it probably also meets US's agenda of making India panic that such devices may be deployed in India ie, India should not readily call Pak's nuclear bluff.

If this were the case, they would have exposed this story a week sooner. What is this legal requirement to announce the arrest?

Nate · Post by **Nate** » 11 Jun 2002 01:14

Is it possible that it was disclosed to India before (last week) and later it was made public since they will eventually know/legal requirement/need to get SC approval for treating the arrested individual as "enemy combatant"?

Rak · Post by **Rak** » 11 Jun 2002 01:29

Originally posted by Natarajan:
Is it possible that it was disclosed to India before (last week) and later it was made public since they will eventually know/legal requirement/need to get SC approval for treating the arrested individual as "enemy combatant"?

US doesn't consider India worthy of disclosing
anything..

The French are crying foul in Europe for the same
reason.

Bal · Post by **Bal** » 11 Jun 2002 01:40

Originally posted by Nikhil Shah:

Originally posted by Yash:
Probably true and it probably also meets US's agenda of making India panic that such devices may be deployed in India ie, India should not readily call Pak's nuclear bluff.
If this were the case, they would have exposed this story a week sooner. What is this legal requirement to announce the arrest?

They had to file charges against him before Monday. And since he could not be charged with anything by the department of justice he is being handed over to the department of defense - they are circumventing the due process available to a US citizen by stating some precedents in 1942 (Supreme court) and 1946 (a district court).

Sunder · Post by **Sunder** » 11 Jun 2002 02:15

Originally posted by Nikhil Shah:
Why announce it now? This chap has been in custody for a month now. Who is this message for?

I think this message is for the American Citizens who made a hue and cry that Bush did nothing even though FBI had the give-away signs of 9/11 and all those things.. the wordings and the laudatory remarks about the feds tell me that it is not for India or Pakistan, but to create a US public opinion that the FBI Does act on Tips.. (The public is foolish.. they do not know that behind the scene action is actually taking place 24/7.)

So far the feds were silently liquidating such terrorists.. but now it hits the media.. that's the only difference.

Jash · Post by **Jash** » 11 Jun 2002 02:34

Jumrao said time to visit Dumb forum.
I visited but no any news there. Looks still they are in dumb mode.

Jash · Post by **Jash** » 11 Jun 2002 02:42

Just now Sen. Shallby who is on Intel. commitee said that there are more like Jose Padilla in USA but I don't wants to say how many and what type and where.

Adi · Post by **Adi** » 11 Jun 2002 03:09

For the sake of credibility, I would urge the admins to change the title of this thread to something like "Pakistan-based plot to explode dirty nuke foiled". Hyperbole and "premature" conclusions are not going to boost our position in the info war.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Jun 2002 03:11

One could state with certainity that such devices will be used against Americans in the ME too. Wonder what the respective govts and people think of that. No more a bomb that goes off and kills a non (say) KSA citizen a 100 miles away. Something like this can effect the population for centuries to come.

At the very least the TSPian givt must start educating the local populace about the impacts of nukes, etc.

This has gone WAY beyond Islamic militancy.

Forget India, such devices may be in France, the Uk and even in the bathroom of Mr. Peng (whoever that is in China).

Jash · Post by **Jash** » 11 Jun 2002 03:13

Aditya_C is truth hurting your somewhere?
This is perfect title, because dud was trained by ISI and Fuki Nuclear scienctist.

P Babu · Post by **P Babu** » 11 Jun 2002 03:33

Originally posted by Aditya_C:
For the sake of credibility, I would urge the admins to change the title of this thread to something like "Pakistan-based plot to explode dirty nuke foiled". Hyperbole and "premature" conclusions are not going to boost our position in the info war.

What is difference between pakistani and pakistan-based? The terrorist caught went to pakistan, got trained there and believes in that nation and what is wrong in calling him pakistani? Just because one is born in america, doesnt make him american.

Sunder · Post by **Sunder** » 11 Jun 2002 03:53

Originally posted by Prabhakar Babu:
What is difference between pakistani and pakistan-based? The terrorist caught went to pakistan, got trained there and believes in that nation and what is wrong in calling him pakistani? Just because one is born in america, doesnt make him american.

Also, the american was only executing the plot.. He was not the main man behind a plot.. It should be a group of ace planners who had mentored this little pawn. So, calling it a pakistani plot is not only acceptable, it is also appropriate.

Arun A · Post by **Arun A** » 11 Jun 2002 04:00

Originally posted by Nikhil Shah:
Why announce it now? This chap has been in custody for a month now. Who is this message for?

Last week: Dubya announces sweeping reforms that will get the agencies talking to each other.
Monday: They announce the capture of a AQ guy as a perfect example of the agencies working together.

Consider this:

This genius flies in from PAKISTAN(hello!!).
He had only talked about a dirty bomb. There is no indication that he had actually started building one.
This moron is in Military custody and the shoe bomber who actually came close to blowing up a plane is in Alexandria.

Something isnt right.

Raj Singh · Post by **Raj Singh** » 11 Jun 2002 04:06

John Umrao

>A question then comes up why not GOAT go after Pakis and get rid of these dirty tricks of ISI.

>1) The answer is why should they. Its India , not a problem (for them).

Are you open to the possibility of US not being in a position to do it...at least not for now....

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 11 Jun 2002 04:39

If They had announced it earlier, Feds would have to accord him all the legal rights due to a citizen.

Also note the precedent set by Lindh case this guy may not be tried in a military court.

jarugn · Post by **jarugn** » 11 Jun 2002 08:23

More definitive Pakistani connection emerging. I would have hard time believing a Hispanic guy from US can run around Pakistan without someone's consent in post 9/11 period.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/10/national/10CND-TERR OR.html?ex=1024372800&en=333eaf67b145c252&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

F.B.I. and C.I.A. agents picked up Mr. Padilla's trail after he and two other men were detained by Pakistani authorities on a passport violation in April, officials said. Mr. Padilla left Pakistan in early April and then traveled from Switzerland to Egypt and then back to Switzerland.

Mr. Padilla stayed at a Qaeda safe house in Lahore, Pakistan, for a time, and while he was staying there did research on radiological devices on the Internet, officials said.

At Mr. Zubaydah's behest, Mr. Padilla also traveled to Karachi to discuss several possible plans, the officials said

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » 11 Jun 2002 09:03

The timing is interesting. The release of this news may prove benificial in PR terms if and only if the USG can tide over debate from HR groups about the violation of Mr. Padilla's rights.

Look at Mr. Padilla's history, former gang member, 2 jail terms, a conversion and a trip to pakistan after 1998. This alone should set off several red flags.

Maybe its just me, but this looks like a red herring.

jarugn · Post by **jarugn** » 11 Jun 2002 09:17

More Pakistani connection to the Dirty Bomber.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=10062002-051111-2579r

P Chupunkar · Post by **P Chupunkar** » 11 Jun 2002 10:36

Unbelievable, this plot is one straight out of the horror books.
If they can try that in the United States, I wonder what they are hatching against India.
These jehadi's are plain nuts and suicidal. Hopefully that should remove any element of doubt amongst the general populace around the world that no is safe and only by working together can we stop this threat.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jun 2002 10:45

Is there any Latino dissatisfaction against the gringo here with this Jose guy? To fulfill his plan he did the best thing currently available - to join the clan after conversion and take a established course in nuke terrorism. Any body see this?

Adi · Post by **Adi** » 11 Jun 2002 16:11

Originally posted by Sunder:
So, calling it a pakistani plot is not only acceptable, it is also appropriate

OK folks, I've changed my mind on this. Pakistani plot it indeed is.

It's just that on other occasions, certain members have got carried away, such as the time that small plane crashed into a building in Italy, owing to mechanical failure. The headlines on BR were already screaming "terrorist attack". I wrongly perceived this as being one of those times.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 11 Jun 2002 16:14

This Washington Times summarizes the story so far - American held in 'dirty bomb' plot. Another story about a "misguided" Amrikee baddie who needs to go to that "special" place half way around the world to hone his terrorist skills. Yes, I did my counting duty here - Pakistan is mentioned a grand 7</font> times in this story....

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 11 Jun 2002 16:18

Arnaud de Borchgrave's UPI report, as per jarugn's link, also appears today in the Washington Times.

Meanwhile, the CIA is reasonably confident that the visit of two Pakistani nuclear scientists to Afghanistan prior to Sept. 11 was linked to al-Mujahir. During their stay in Kandahar the visiting Pakistanis conferred with Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar and met with Osama bin Laden. Al Qaida's principal interest at that stage was how to make a nuclear device that would irradiate a large urban area.

And here is the Wash. Times editorial - Bin Laden's dirty bomb

An administration official...added that Al Mujahir and an unidentified associate researched dirty bombs in Lahore, Pakistan.

member_4401 · Post by **member_4401** » 11 Jun 2002 17:49

If this doesn't open SD's eyes, what will?

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 11 Jun 2002 18:29

Fox News has learnt that Abdullah al Muhajir, aka Jose Padilla, had at least one accomplice.

Where was this accomplice detained? Yep, you guessed it...

'Dirty Bomb' Suspect Had at Least One Accomplice

Law enforcement sources told Fox News another man named Benjamin Ahmed Mohammed was implicated in the plot and was taken into custody in Pakistan "recently," perhaps late last month. One official said he would continue to be detained in Pakistan and there are currently no plans to bring him to the United States.

Padilla first met Zubaydah in Afghanistan in late 2001 after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, then went to Lahore, Pakistan, to research dirty bomb techniques with an unidentified associate, officials said. At Abu Zubaydah's request, Padilla traveled to Karachi, Pakistan, in March to meet several senior Al Qaeda officials and discuss bombings of U.S. gas stations and hotels, officials said.

Jash · Post by **Jash** » 11 Jun 2002 18:44

WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE! - Nikhil

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 11 Jun 2002 19:09

This statement by Mush just HAS to be in response to this particular thread on BR!

Musharraf concerned U.S. suspect flew from Pakistan

Now, Mush, please also explain the accomplice who is detained currently in Pakiland (which I suppose means that he is a Paki whom you feel uneasy extraditing). Also pl. explain that Lahore Academy of Dirty Nuke Synthesis. There was also a mention in the news reports of these dirty nukesters meeting Al Keeda in Karachi....

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » 11 Jun 2002 19:29

The notion of a red herring gains strength in my mind.

Also interesting is the absence of any mention in the news services of a similar device of this nature being found in Chechnya in 1995-6 (?).

VirenH · Post by **VirenH** » 11 Jun 2002 22:46

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1023720641957598840,00.html
The CIA launched an intensive manhunt and had him under surveillance by the time he boarded a Karachi flight bound for the U.S. As it turns out, even before the CIA began tracking him Mr. Padilla tried to leave the country in early April on a false passport, but was stopped and briefly detained by Pakistani authorities.

'Briefly detained' for carrying a false passport! Anything goes in the TSP.

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 11 Jun 2002 22:49

Originally posted by jash:
WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE! - Nikhil

Nikhil Bhai for a moment I thought Jash was warning you!!

You should have said

"WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE Jash! - Nikhil"

Rak · Post by **Rak** » 11 Jun 2002 22:52

Originally posted by VirenH:

Mr. Padilla tried to leave the country in early April on a false passport, but was stopped and briefly detained by Pakistani authorities.

This is just BS. The US is adding this to preserve
the honor and dignity of Pakistan.

Honor & Dignity of TSP can only be preserved by
other countries... not by the people of TSP.

jaikiran · Post by **jaikiran** » 12 Jun 2002 01:06

One of the things i want to mention is that all the news channels in the UK(partcularly news @10 PM on BBC 1, ITV news & channels 4 news... but BBC 1 in particular) mentioned explicitly that the terrorist in question Abdullah Al Muhajir had received "TRAINING IN TSP" . karachi & lahore were the places mentioned.

the news i am talking about was in the bulletins on the 10/6/02.

Sadly, the only thing of regret was although TSP was mentioned, it was like an after thought.

the experts were talking primarily of the former soviet union republics as the potential source of nuclear/radioactive material.

they also mentioned hospitals where they have radioactive materials as potential sources of radioactive materials used in the making of Dirty Bombs.

what worries me is the very real threat that these fanatics pose to the real world.the threat of nuclear terrorism is very very real.must be more the case of the United States to SECURE the nuke devices within TSP.

maybe, Donald Rumsfeld's visit is one way they can talk of it with mushy,ofcourse on private level.

sunil:-one question... i call radionews channels in and around manchester,liverpool on this issue. i have not got round your red herring idea.could you explain it in detail for us "UNPAD GAWAARS" :p

Jai.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 12 Jun 2002 01:10

"Briefly detained" has implications. Means he was released after someone intervened on his behalf. For all the Paks knew, with the false passport, he could have been part of a Yindu-Yehudi conspiracy. But he was released....

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 12 Jun 2002 01:11

Actually Sunil the buried device was discovered in Izmailovo Park (NE Moscow) in Nov, 1995. The interesting thing about the incident is that it appears to have been primarily a piece of psy ops, not unlike kind the IRA used to practice. Basayev called up a Russian Television journalist to let him know exactly where the thing was buried. This was at a point when the Chechens had been forced out of all major population centres and the Russians had announced elections in Chechnya. Basayev was attempting a little nuclear blackmail of his own against the Russians

The device weighed about 33 lbs, Cesium 137 packed around high explosives. The Cesium appeared to have been stolen from a plant in the Urals. As far as anyone could tell it was a working device, but casualties would have been low most likely.

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » 12 Jun 2002 01:40

Hi all,

what exactly is this guy's name?

Is it Mujahir (remember that in the subcontinent `r' is pronunced as d sometimes)?

or is it Muhajir?

Ashcroft says it's Mujahir, others do not concur.

Johann,

> Moscow.

Is there some reason why no one in the US is talking about this? None of the TV show talking warheads seem to want to mention this.

I watched the movie "Sum of All Fears".. and it was chock full with garbage about the USG "caring and feeling for the chechen people". I assumed it was all Hollywood or did I miss something?

This whole thing has `red herring' written all over it. How in the world does USG hope to ride out the Human Rights angle escapes me, and not to mention the communal reprecussions of this sort of thing.

Dude, in India we would have bent over backwards *not* to release this kind of information, out here every third lunatic seems all set to babble endlesly about Padilla's conversion and the communal angle. It's almost as if communal sensitivity in broadcasting is not drilled into the news channels. All very odd, very odd indeed.

jaikiran,

A red herring is something that is supposed to distract. People who see it are supposed to feel vindicated or even relieved. The herring always draws attention away from something bigger, because it offers a seductive alternative to reality.

After Sept 11, a twice convicted gang member from the 90s, who converted in jail, subsequently went to Pakistan in 1998, returned in 2002, and who is known to have met with Bashiruddin Mehmood is like walking 100000 KW neon sign. It is impossible to miss such a person. Even if the connection to Mehmood is not known, someone with a history like that and a passport in a name like that and returning from Pakistan is bound to raise attention or atleast merit further questioning after Sept 11.

So Padilla came into this country with a neon sign on his head. The sign said, "Arrest me". Now the question is who put that sign there.. and why?

jarugn · Post by **jarugn** » 12 Jun 2002 21:59

Pakistani Christian arrested in Lahore as a co-conspirator of Dirty Nuke Bomber.

http://nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Terror-Arrest.html [ROTFL]

The associate worked with Padilla, an American, on researching ``dirty bombs'' in Lahore, Pakistan, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. The official said the second person is not an American but declined to name the associate or the country where the questioning is being conducted.

In Islamabad, Pakistan, a senior Pakistani intelligence official said Benjamin Ahmed Mohammed is being held and questioned by FBI agents for his connection to Padilla. The official did not know Mohammed's nationality.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2002 22:06

Sunil I heard on NPR that Maureen Dowd has a column in NY Times(June 12, 2002) where she thinks that this Muhajir guy was set up by Al Zubeydah. So maybe he sacrificed a pawn (goat) to protect a higher piece?
Can anyvone post full text of this column please?