India to consider sending 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Shivani · Post by **Shivani** » 30 Dec 2008 10:11

We do not have the logistics to support 120,000 troops in Afghanistan.
Any such presence will rely heavily on US and Russia for keeping the logistic doors open. Essentially, US will control the lives of 120,000 Indian citizen. They'll use this to control India even more so than now.
A presence is going to be utterly meaningless if the RoE are 'humanist' and the Armed forces are misused as a police force. 120,000 people only make sense if you are going to eliminate the entire country -every man, woman and child- not (pretend to) rebuild it.

Finally, 120,000 troops in Afganistan only makes sense if they travel through Pakistan (turning it into kabristan as they stroll through, eliminating all vermin in sight). And we do not have the ability to do that either.

Happy new year.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 30 Dec 2008 10:13

Update from Orbat!

0230 December 30, 2008

Correction: India mulling offer of 120,000 troops for Afghanistan Thanks to some quick work by Bill Roggio and Mandeep Singh Bajwa we were able to avoid getting a big smack on our news story yesterday. India has not offered US troops, but is working on a proposal to make an offer, to the new Administration. We got the military details because the military was quick off the mark with a response.

So today you should have the details of the formations etc. India is earmarking - in case the proposal is made and accepted.

Nonetheless, when planning goes as far as to identify specific units, a force commander, and matters such as the battle-training schools will be set up, you have to see this is completely serious from India's view.

Warning on "Bombay 2, 3, 4" A source from Kabul warns Orbat.com that other Bombay-like attacks are coming and that certain sections of the Pakistani military are determined to push India-Pakistan to war.

Speculation on next Pakistani move on withdrawn troops We hear rumors that Pakistan will offer to return troops to the NWFP if the US pressures India to change the status quo on Kashmir more to Pakistan's liking.

We've heard of Red Herrings and can with authority say this is a Dead Red Herring. There is absolutely no chance India will compromise on Pakistan, unless Pakistan is thinking of allowing free elections in its part of the disputed state. India has just completed elections in the state for the umpteenth time, the turnout at 61% was higher than ever before and this was possibly the fairest election ever held there. This despite a boycott by the pro-secession parties.

Now before the usual western suspects start talking about this was not a free election, can we ask a question: would the US permit Washington and Oregon states to hold an election on secession? The day that happens, okay, you can come back and say the Kashmir election was not fair. Then you can explain to the Indians why they should allow a vote on secession of the whole state when except for the districts (counties) that make up the Valley, no one else wants to secede. So really this is akin to 40% of Washington/Oregon's counties they want to secede, but all of the two states will have to accept the verdict because these 40% hold a majority of the population.

Further, India has defeated the Pakistan-based insurgency.

The Indians wouldn't negotiate anything even if they were losing the war, and they have won this phase, so what is there to talk about?

Israel and Hamas There is something in the Israeli consciousness that approaches psychopathy when the Israelis know perfectly well they cannot force Hamas or its successors from continuing to attack Israel anymore than could stop Hamas' predecessors, but they still keep thrashing the Palestinians.

Please understand we do not object to hard Israeli action. If they simply came out and said "we won, you lost" as winners have done since recorded history began and likely before, and if they expelled the losers, Orbat.com for one would not be happy, but we'd say: "The Israelis did what they had to do. The strong inherit the earth..." - at least that's our understanding of the Old Testament, and Judaism does not recognize the New Testament with its meek and meeker business.

Sure, the Egyptians and the Jordanians wouldn't accept the expellees, so go and grab enough of the Sinai and Jordan to send the refugees there.

Okay, so the world will hate you, but does any Israeli really Feel The Love that is gushing from the rest of the world on their repression?

Its this business of crippling the cripple who lands a blow with his crutch because you made him a cripple to begin with that is bothering us. If you don't have the guts to kill the animal you wounded and keep shooting him everywhere except on his head, to "persuade" him to leave you alone, there's something wrong with you, not with the animal.

Moreover, what's this business of we're willing to make peace but we're going keep grabbing territory from you, and we're going to tell how you're going to live your life, and then expect the Palestinians to accept it? Any fool knows there can be no peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians. You've kicked the man put of his house, but let him set up in your back garden and you expect him to accept it and leave you alone?

Come on folks, its time to grow up.

Mayura · Post by **Mayura** » 30 Dec 2008 10:22

I don't think GOI would have given a thought about this.

This involves a lot of expenses and we have to give a second thought during this time of economic crunches.

What will be our objectives:Like most of them discussed to end the sweet relation of PAK army and ISI and eradicate the terror weed.

But, that comes with a hefty price.Those talibanees attacking more of our troops.More indian workers targeted.

If at all we have this plans on our papers;then must ensure these:
-Make it clear to unkil what are our objectives by sending in our troops.
-Not to be the sheild to NATO force for incoming terrorist bullets.
-Our soldiers report to their Commanders and take orders from GOI timely (however, will assist NATO forces for certain operations sharing equal risks)
-Assist anti-Pak communities there and get their help if at all we may require them in due course of action
-Always have a safe enter and exit passes ( not sure of Iran and Russian passes)
-Keep our old friend russians in the loop
-Ask unkil to pay us atleast so as to manage our troops there (donno if this is feasible)
-Do not send a massive army there.Start off the good work with a few and checking the reality may consider unleashing more tigers
-Most importantly we have to make sure we assist them (US/NATO) for their WOT but not to be their bulletproofs/armour.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Dec 2008 10:34

I don't think GOI would have given a thought about this.

I am not sure if you read one of my earlier posts, but, just to recap, GoI not thinking is nothing new. GoI is still not capable of thinking or at best it has delayed thinking.

However, the armed forces of India have given this a thought more than 20+ years ago.

And, as a FYI only, India has a signed treaty with Iran to allow India to build a base on the fly in the event of a war with Pakis. Now, having said that, we cannot be very sure where the treaty stands, but, it is there.

This involves a lot of expenses and we have to give a second thought during this time of economic crunches.

Not doing anything also has a big cost. Which Indians do not consider when thinking.

What will be our objectives:Like most of them discussed to end the sweet relation of PAK army and ISI and eradicate the terror weed.

But, that comes with a hefty price.Those talibanees attacking more of our troops.More indian workers targeted.

The existence of Pakistan is big and hefty price to all nations.

WRT India there is no way that the PA is going to quit at this point in time. They have to ratchet it up even further.

Now IF anyone has a better idea to diffuse the issues for all time (goal/objective/etc) please let us know what they are and what is the (estimated to the closest million) associated cost.

Doing nothing has a cost too - in the form of another attack. Note that this attack has cost multiple NSG centers, equipment, training, more surveillance along coast, more funds for Mumbai police to upgrade lathis and 303 (gosh we used them during NCC training 30 years ago), loss of foreign funds, etc - runs into the billions easily.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 30 Dec 2008 10:41

Afghanistan is supposed to be Porkistan's strategic depth!, remove that, they are b/w sea and two front war. 120,000 pairs of boots on the ground will change the game...forever.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 30 Dec 2008 10:45

The objectives are clearly mentioned in the report from orbat. besides the ones mentioned there,
- you get a lauchpad for funding/arming the balochis and others
- you stop the taliban takeover of afghanistan
- you can launch attacks on the PA from this fluid border and noone will be able to clearly point out the source... unlike the indian border.
- piss off the pakis. if its so bad for us, why do they wet their pants everytime indian deployment is mentioned.
- remove the paki dependence of the US. this is very key. if their utility is gone, who would want that rabid dog in their living rooms?
- you can literally have a constant battle with PA / taliban on this border without the rest of the world ever noticing.
- gives moral support to the paki provinces on the afghan side to break up. they always have the indian army to help them out.
- the alternative is bad...sitting on the indian border and fuming. Any action from Afghanistan cannot cross the nuke-red-line. they can never establish who did it.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2008 11:10

Gosh.Atleast some one in Babudom "strategic" circles have gotten their heads out of their Musharrafs and started thinking again for sure.

There is no way you win the war against the terrorist threat from Pakistan by being purely defensive and wringing your hands in despair. The Pakis have created a stalemate with their nukes and taken direct punitive punishment off the table as an option. There has to be another strategic front that has to be opened.

What can work is encirclement and long term strangulation of Pakistan. We need international support for that and the only one who can help us there is Unkil , like it or not.

Now Afghanistan is where India and Unkil's interest fully converge and though they might not accept it , on Pakistan as well. Pakistan's strategic objective is Afghanistan , which they hope to use against India , like they managed to do when they got the Taliban installed there. The last time that happened, 9/11 was the result.

Obama has is strategic priorities right. The fact that idiot Bush went on a wild cowboy adventure of zero value in Iraq and ignored Afghanistan is the problem. The surge in Iraq has worked well. Obama will disengage from Iraq and get the focus back on Afghanistan and getting Bin Laden and Taliban. Now everyone knows perfectly well that , getting Bin Laden and Taliban wont happen unless the strategic rationale Pakis have in Afghanistan is completely broken /made unattainable and the costs of holding Taliban and Bin Laden become unbearable. Only then will the Pakis cough them up.

The Americans are going to have the surge in Afghanistan once Obama's team takes over. Now that surge will enjoy only moderate success if the costs for Pakistan in helping and not acting against Taliban are not raised. The Americans have tried the strategy of getting Pakistan to cooperate (that is the first thing I would have tried if I were on the American side) has been a failure and the Pakistanis have been playing them like a drum for the past 8 years now. As a result, the American war in Afghanistan has dragged on and it is close to becoming unhinged and a strategic failure. Clearly the Americans need a different strategic option than Pakistan's cooperation. That is why they are trying to get alternate supply routes and all else into Afghanistan from the north and via Turkmenistan /Tajikistan etc via Russia's Caucusus. Dependence on Pakistan is the single point of strategic failure in the current US strategy in Afghanistan. The Pakis know that and are milking it dry. The US thinks that if there are strategic alternatives to that, it takes the critical path to success away from Pakistan's hand. However , that is not enough and the US Afghan strategy will still fail, if they cannot get the Pakistan Army to act against Taliban and wipe them out.

The US and India's Our dominant strategy (that is regardless of whatever else we will have to execute) is to get the Pakis to act against the Taliban and terrorists targeted at Kashmir and break the infrastructure for terrorism once and for all. Now of course the part against Kashmir directed terrorists is not dominant for US ,but for India it is. At present we lack leverage to make the US align with our interests in Kashmir .

But regardless, where India and US converge strategically is in Afghanistan. The effect way to get Pakistan to act is to encircle it and sqeeze it to the point of strangulation. For that , India getting boots on the ground in Afghanistan is vital. It has to be a joint Indian and American strategy. With feet on the ground in Afghanistan, India gains strong leverage over US to make it align with taking out the Anti India terror groups in Pakiland, along with taking out the Talibunnies.

What is will work is arms embargoes and economic embargoes against Pakistan , backed by UN sanctions. Pakistan being declared a state sponsor of terror will work . The Paki Army is using the civilian govt as a mask to show to the world to avoid sanctions, and tripping up the world in its own bootlaces in the nuanced play in distinctions of the civilian govt vs "non state actors" and military etc. The time has come to do away with nuances and raise the cost for the avg Abdul Lungi Pakistani in not taking on the Army and Jehadis and supporting them either actively or passively.

The way to break the Pakistani Army and destroy it's capability to make war either overt or covert is not in the India-Pakistan border , but in the Pakistan Afghanistan border. Afghanistan is Pakistan's strategic objective and battlefield. Defeat it there and make it impossible for it to win there and it's maneuver room is limited . The Pakis will be forced to kill the devil's spawn they nurtured,becuase with no outlet in Afghanistan and India, they will turn inward and destroy pakistan (it is already happened. Shut off afghanistan even in a limited way and the Taliban have already turned on Peshawar, Pindi and Lahore!).

Oh.. I am not too worried about the Americans not seeing it this way. Even if Obama, tries coopting the Pakis, that is destined for long term failure. The Americans will learn eventually, it is only a matter of time, that the only way to win in Afghanistan is to squeeze Pakistan out of the critical success path and coerce Pakistan in to destroying the vermin it spawned.

Whoever thought about putting boots in Afghanistan and aligning with the US there has his head screwed on the right way and is good.. very very good, brilliant in fact.. Let me explain why ..

Now consider what this trial balloon possibility would have revoked as an alarm in Rawalpindi.. with it's usual "tactically brilliant" folks. This surely was not the response they gamed out when they did 26/11 in Mumbai. This unexpected strategic response that gets around the "MAD" stalemate they erected will surely make them brown their pants.. The "thinking" Paki Jarnaill (an oxymoron I admit) would counter that by aligning fully with the Yankees and proactively take out the Taliban and hand over Bin Laden !.. With that done and Afghanistan strategically lost, there is no way the Pakis can sustain the Kashmir side of the story! .

So in both cases, India's dominant strategy gets executed. In the first case, we would actually put feet on the ground in Afghanistan. If the well thought out trail balloon compels the Pakis to act, India would have won a huge strategic victory ,without firing a shot. This is the best case scenario . Very Chankian and earth-e-shaster indeed !.

For it to work, we should credibly negotiate with Obama admin on the upcoming surge in Afghanistan and the price in strategic terms for our participation. Do that and you create a perfect set of conditions for Paki Army and military establishment to self destruct. Think about it. The Paki Military establishment could create the most mischeif, why even survive, when it had the US pinned strategically on the board. During the cold war, it was CENTO, which they used to get massive arms transfers and support which they used against India in 65 and 71. In the 80s, it was the Soviet invasion and the loss of Iran for the US, which enabled Paki land to survive on handouts military and economic. Then after 9/11 , Pakilalnd got bailed out economically becuase of the same strategic pin.

Break the strategic pin that Pakiland has on the US and it will not survive for long.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Dec 2008 11:14

Arun_S wrote:IMVHO Indian troops to Afgahnistan will only be real of there is any evidence of Unkill giving open support to Baluchistan.

Otherwise this so called scoop news of 120,000 Bharathiya Fauj is bakwas.

Supply route via Iran IMO is a non starter unless again USA patches up with Iran big time and let Iran make a Shia Nuclear Bum. Iran providing land corridore for Indian supply routes to Afghanistan perhaps plausible, but as an agent for USA will be unacceptable HARAM that Iran IMO will refuse because they are not rudderless Dhimmi idiots with no any sense of history.

Good move and should be supported on the grand chessboard. This is the one way to win without firing a shot. Indian logistics can be routed thru Bandar Abbas and the Black Sea ports.

India is no ones agent. It will be under own flag. Iran might go along for that helps reduce US troops in their negihborhood.

BTW, IA was packin up kit bags to go to Kabul and Baghdad during NDA time. The only hitch was India wanted independet command.

Also if any one cares its was the Indian offer fo troops and bases to attack the Taliban that forced the TSP hand in GOAT.This is per Mushy who told ReDiff "India ne khel khatam kar di!"

A bigger question is will UK let US take the offer?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Dec 2008 11:16

trial balloon is the only thing that makes sense, IMHO !

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Dec 2008 11:25

Actually BRF members can force the issue by voicing this proposal in talk shows and letters to editors and give it more hawa.
And the more canny ones can flesh out the taskforce name

I propose FORCE Zorawar for the deployment. Work out how much tonnage is need to support 120,000 troops and the units to be tasked. I suggest they should be elite strike corps units to assuage the TSP and to make sure the right kind of troops are there in Afghanistan

. "Reserve" units can take over for the strike units which are moved.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 30 Dec 2008 11:40

The idea is pretty tempting but can't be done unless a direct supply route is available which means a free pro-India/western/democrazy state of Baluchistan is a prerequisite. Even after a safe supply line it would take a Genghis khanish brutality to accomplish anything in that shithole. An attack would do nothing but to unite them on relegious lines. Bad idea.

It's just a rumor so I vote IB4TL

Harish · Post by **Harish** » 30 Dec 2008 11:43

Sounds more like wishful thinking from people who could not keep quiet anymore - whether Indian military types or goras. Instead of dealing with camps within striking distance in PoK, we send troops across to a neighbouring country to fight and die for the Americans. Hopefully we will earn brownie points for each soldier's (imminent) sacrifice. Meanwhile the piglets lash out even more savagely for encircling their sty. Brilliant move indeed.

BTW, no reports anywhere in the media yet, and we already have a thread on BRF. That reliable source, or that much desperation for India to do something, anything?

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 30 Dec 2008 11:50

sorry esteemed gurujis and fellow jingoes,

I have only question ji.

Post our experience with the third expeditionary force deployment under our own flag (first one ji in 1971 - very successful one ji, second one ji in malidives - very successful ji and third one ji IPKF in Sri lanka ji - partially successful onlee ji) was there not a parliamentary resolution/amendment, by Veepy Singh ji (our bhootpoorv Pradhan mantriji) government that stipulated stringent conditions before Indian troops can be deployed overseas?

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Dec 2008 11:54

shiv wrote:But tell me detractors, why would this be a bad idea if we could get logistics set up right. OK maybe not 120,000 as planned - but 45000?

1) Is the idea bad because Indian troops will not be Muslims by and large?
2) Is it bad because Indians have no sense of history?
3) Is it bad because we are just not attuned to think in this way?
4) Is it bad because India is a poor country?
5) Is it bad because India is caste ridden country that suppresses minorities?
6) Is it bad because India has 2567000000 insurgencies?
7) Is it bad because we do not believe we are equipped for an out of country campaign (as were were in WW2)?

I did think of this idea and now ruminating why I did not post here earlier

I do not see anything bad in this development, provided it is followed through and sustained over a long period of time. That is a big if and there are several hurdles to be crossed. We still have several Shakunis around even before we reach Gandhar.

Yes and the questions like above will be raised by the Obarfs! [Obama + Barfs = Obarfs (tm)]

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Dec 2008 12:01

Harish wrote:Sounds more like wishful thinking from people who could not keep quiet anymore - whether Indian military types or goras. Instead of dealing with camps within striking distance in PoK, we send troops across to a neighbouring country to fight and die for the Americans. Hopefully we will earn brownie points for each soldier's (imminent) sacrifice. Meanwhile the piglets lash out even more savagely for encircling their sty. Brilliant move indeed.

BTW, no reports anywhere in the media yet, and we already have a thread on BRF. That reliable source, or that much desperation for India to do something, anything?

Nah - we are not fighting and dying for the Americans. We are fighting for us and in the process saving the H&D of the western world. There will be some H&D loss for the pigs.

Harish wrote:Hopefully we will earn brownie points for each soldier's (imminent) sacrifice.

Just like when we earned when Sri Ombale died a martyr! Right?

Harish wrote:Meanwhile the piglets lash out even more savagely for encircling their sty.

Which they will lash out now in J&K by raising the spectre of Azaadi! Again!

Harish wrote:BTW, no reports anywhere in the media yet, and we already have a thread on BRF. That reliable source, or that much desperation for India to do something, anything?

Yes, at least we are not inactive - keeping our brain cells warm - that's better than lashing out internally.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 30 Dec 2008 12:02

Boss log while its good psy ops, think of this We had to wait NSG to be airlifted from Nai Delshi searching for a/c and paper work like boarding passes etc.

1971, Maldevies, 1987 SL deployments are entire different ball game whe compared to Afghan venture. We better do it right or dont get there any where near Hindukush. This is more difficult than war in Tibet games we thought.

Evene NATO is dependent on TSP, Russia does not want Unkil to succeed....

We are short on Garam hawa lift.

My sources say that central babus are designing a Chabees January Tableux with Taj hotel replica, with MARCOS and NSG Storming it and MKN beamimg as to how succesful we were...

Chabees ko do maina hoga Taj ka hungama

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Dec 2008 12:06

Katare wrote:The idea is pretty tempting but can't be done unless a direct supply route is available which means a free pro-India/western/democrazy state of Baluchistan is a prerequisite. Even after a safe supply line it would take a Genghis khanish brutality to accomplish anything in that shithole. An attack would do nothing but to unite them on relegious lines. Bad idea.

It's just a rumor so I vote IB4TL

Who is talking about attacking? This is nation building! We are already involved and we now have to ensure that whatever we put in place in Afghanistan is better protected. With NATO's experience the current troop level is already short.

And what was the chai-biskoot session with Iran was for? They want to get out of the "Axis of evil" branding, the US wants to talk to Iran, this is a good cause for Iran to show that they can behave responsibly. That also explains why Israel's action on Palestine did not go down well for India and hence the terse statement. Further, the US is letting Israel a free ride. There is wheel within wheels. If Iran is intelligent, it will be acting on India's side!

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Dec 2008 12:14

Shivani wrote:

We do not have the logistics to support 120,000 troops in Afghanistan.

Finally, 120,000 troops in Afganistan only makes sense if they travel through Pakistan (turning it into kabristan as they stroll through, eliminating all vermin in sight). And we do not have the ability to do that either.

Happy new year.

It will be interesting to see what will be Pakistan's reaction when it is asked to provide safe passage to the Indian troops going into Afghanistan for Nation building under the aegis of UNSC? Just thinking...

Added later. US desperately needs help in managing Afghanistan

Afghan bombs kill five, wound 40. http: ... 6BJYNZlk7w

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2008 12:21

Frankly, the Afghan deployment idea is a good one, though fraught with risks. India if it goes in should make sure that there are multiple access routes in. I dont trust the Iranians with their current mindset and regime. Iranian support will immediately bring in Soddie support for the Pakis and the Talibunnies. India should get Russian help with logistics and also open the black sea /caspian sea route with the Americans. Tajikistan, Uzbekistana and Turkmenistan should be the routes into Afghanistan.

This trial balloon is well worth floating . The precursor to this trial balloon is the "news"

(another trial balloon) that the Americans are trying to get alternate access to Afghanistan. The key to squeezing Pakistan is like I said is to break their strategic pin on the Americans. An alternate route for Nato into Afghanistan squeezes Pakistan out of the game makes it lose leverage. From being a "partner" it becomes a slave that needs to obey orders without question or suffer bad consequences.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Dec 2008 12:25

If India can act successfully as a mediator leading to US-Iran tension reduction, that too would be a useful and successful management of the neighborhood.

IMO, Iran holds some of the keys to peace in Iraq, Afghanistan and in Israel's neighborhood.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Dec 2008 12:25

If India can act successfully as a mediator leading to US-Iran tension reduction, that too would be a useful and successful management of the neighborhood.

IMO, Iran holds some of the keys to peace in Iraq, Afghanistan and in Israel's neighborhood.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 30 Dec 2008 12:28

There is a way though, recall that NATO was expeditiously getting alternative routes of supply after the burning of Humvees?

If that route is for US

then IND_US valley civilization can spring to life, like in Scorpion king movies.

Bahut Maza agaya "Gabbar Singh"

***
Added later

( A little deflated Vina garu already thought of it,

but I puntered it into goal though

)

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 30 Dec 2008 12:40

All talks here have revolved around strategic and tactical implications of sending 120000/45000 of your Indian soldiers to Afghanistan.

However has anybody considered if this proposed proposal to the americans would pass muster among our politicians - many among the ruling coalitino have vote banks to protect by opposing on the ground that the action by Indian soldiers would be seen by the Indian Muslims as an attack on Muslims in general [doesn't matter if the people they represent actually think on this line]

But the most serious opposiot would come from the Communist parties who would use this issue to reiterate their allegations that India is becoming a US stooge post Nuke deal

Though I personally am in favour of sending our troops to Afghanistan and sqeezing the Pakistanis from both sides, I really doubt it would ever be approved

[as for Al-Qaeda tagetting India as result of our involvement, we could leaverage our involvement in afghanistan to extract hi-tech slam bam goodies from the Americans at bargain price wich could then be used in effctive neutralization of terrorist threat perceptions in ndia]

However I do agree with @Shivani's assesment of the Rules of engagement under which India would be mandated to operate - it has to be effective and not another IPKF

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 30 Dec 2008 12:48

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 24#p584824

What can India do in covert ops ? There is lot of debate going on. I feel it already gained mass and going to roll irrespective of any outcome. Seriously, if what i heard could come true, mindboggling, a new era has began, where the sign reads, DON'T MESS WITH INDIANS.

US Navy seals is just a paltry.

When I wrote this the number mentioned was something half of what the current quoted number is. Neverthless it will not be less than a corps formation and it wont be a typical corps size. It consists of all speically trained/raised units and in most possibly equipped with american equipments along with indian. Only formal agreement is pending i guess. And it dont have to be only afghanistan.

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 30 Dec 2008 12:52

Could this possible deployment of Indian troops be quid pro for the nuke deal? But some questions need be answered:-

1. Who will pay for it-deployment? and who will also pay for stocking up for war/cut off of border corridor for say upto 1 year?

2. Will India permanently increase its military strength for very long term deployment to Afghanistan

3. Reaction in Middle east muslim nations from where we get around US$ 30Billion dollar repatriation?

4. Will Russia & CIS co-operate?

5. Will US decrease pressure on Iran so that we have closer corridor to troops through Iran?

6. Will US-western alliance cut off military supplies and impose economic sanctions against Pakistan?

7. Will India to allowed to encourage freedom movements in Pakistan and hit terrorist targets with UCAVs etc?

8. What additional economic and military tech will be given to India by US & western powers?

9. US used Pakistan like condom in Afghanistan in Cold War, how do we know that the same will not happen to India?

10. Will US acknowledge an Indian sphere of influence and help in curbing terrorism in say North East?

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2008 12:54

Guys.. Guys.. The troops in Afghanistan threat works!..

Breaking News from Pee Pee Cee
Pakistan Suspends Nato Supplies to fight Taliban

BBC NEWS
Pakistan suspends Afghan supplies

Pakistan has suspended supplies to US and Nato forces in Afghanistan via the Khyber Pass to begin operations against militants in the area, officials say.

Troops backed by helicopter gunships and tanks began an operation early on Tuesday, a local administrator said.

There has been a spate of hijackings and attacks on vehicles carrying crucial overland supplies to US and Nato troops fighting the Taleban.

The route from the port city of Karachi is a major source of supply.

Recently thousands of protesters turned out in Pakistan's city of Peshawar to demand an end to the supply route and to strikes by US drones into Pakistan.

Published: 2008/12/30 07:05:29 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

Print Sponsor

Like I said, the "thinking Paki " Jarnails are acting!! Now time to turn on the heat and credibly negotiate with the US for feet on the ground in Afghanistan. That will put the fear of god in the Pakis. Time to turn the squeeze on.

I think our babus have been doing stuff away in the background for the past month or so. Now I think we will see the increasing pressure on Pakiland and the PA. We need to get leverage in the game to break the game the Pakis are playing , where they play in the gap between India's and US interests . ie act against Taliban and not against terrorism directed to India. Getting feet in the ground in Afghanistan as part of the surge is a surefire way of gaining leverage , that we can parlay into making sure that Pakiland doesnt get away with acting against the Taliban alone.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 30 Dec 2008 13:50

Conceptual good.

Practically?

Since you all know better, could we know where we scrape the barrel and what does it imply in psychosocial way, whereas in the current scenario there is more deployment and less of peace time life!

Why don't you all stand post or encourage people to join the forces even if the pay is a pittance?

KSubramanian · Post by **KSubramanian** » 30 Dec 2008 14:03

India to send 120,000 troops to Afghanistan

Is this what chidu meant when he said hard decisions would need to be taken in the coming months? And did Advaniji not say that we will support you unequivocally in all "hard decisions"?

I wonder if this has been cooking for sometime on the back burner.

Harish · Post by **Harish** » 30 Dec 2008 14:05

I fail to see how putting Indian boots in Afghanistan can help secure our citizenry and assets from baki depradations.

- LeT, PA and other elements will only intensify their terror campaign against India. Remember that all terror attacks cannot be prevented. This means that we *will* be attacked more, and more savagely. The internal costs multiply.

- Pakis will have escalated the external costs to India massively. Something they could not manage so far. They did impose some internal costs, but our rising economy was able to absorb them. Not so if we have to pay by the billions to support a massive Indian force in A'stan.

- Pakis will try even harder to force an India-Pak war where the main focus of action will be Kashmir and the plains. I am not sure if our presence across the Durand line is then an asset or liability - how will we cope with the need for extra boots in and around Kashmir? Unless the elements we will send to A'stan are capable of extreme penetrative attacks using massive firepower. In short, a mini-strike corps supported by Indian airpower, no less. a) Possible? b) Can be done under unkil's beady eyes?

- What the hell are we trying to do here - defeat the Taliban in line with unkil's wishes? Aren't we supposed to be actually cheering the taliban on - toward their objective of rending bakistan apart? And then what - we ensure a safe and stable bakistan that continues to practice deniable terrorism against India, albeit on a smaller scale? Will they forget Kashmir and their dreams of Islamizing the subcontinent?

- I thought we wanted bakistan to disintegrate in a controlled manner. Is our force intended to do that? Or even if we intend to do so, is this in line with unkil's far stronger will in this matter? Remember: US wants Taliban destroyed and bakistan ressurected as a thorn in India's side or for whatever other reason. US does NOT want that country destroyed. Whereas we want. Or should want. So how do our objectives jell with theirs? Or have we accepted that a stable bakistan is in our interests, like our Mr. NoBalls pontificates?

- When do our jawans come back? After ensuring everything is all right, no more Taliban, no more AlQ, but with LeT, JuD and PA intact? How exactly does that help?

We are dealing with the international component of the WOT, not with the local, India-specific component. The local component will continue to thrive. By all means we can send troops to A'stan, but how are we going to secure the lives of ordinary Indians?

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2008 14:23

Harish wrote:I fail to see how putting Indian boots in Afghanistan can help secure our citizenry and assets from baki depradations.

- LeT, PA and other elements will only intensify their terror campaign against India. Remember that all terror attacks cannot be prevented. This means that we *will* be attacked more, and more savagely. The internal costs multiply.

That they will do anyway, even if you sit back and do nothing or directly attack their now empty huts with the big wigs safely under the protection of the Paki Army.. You will be wasting your time and effort.

Harish wrote:- Pakis will have escalated the external costs to India massively. Something they could not manage so far. They did impose some internal costs, but our rising economy was able to absorb them. Not so if we have to pay by the billions to support a massive Indian force in A'stan.

Get Unkil and Nato to pay for it! . Nato countries will have to send in their own troops otherwise anyways!. This can and must be negotiated.

- What the hell are we trying to do here - defeat the Taliban in line with unkil's wishes? Aren't we supposed to be actually cheering the taliban on - toward their objective of rending bakistan apart? And then what - we ensure a safe and stable bakistan that continues to practice deniable terrorism against India, albeit on a smaller scale? Will they forget Kashmir and their dreams of Islamizing the subcontinent?

Taliban and India directed terrorists will turn inwards and destroy Pakistan only if they are bottled up within Pakistan. As long as there in an outlet for them to act against Afghanistan and India, they are a useful tool and not a mortal danger to Pakistan. Bottle them up in Pakistan , then you have a snake running loose within the 4 walls of your house bottled up and no way for you to throw it across the wall to your neighbor's house. That is when Pakiland will implode.

By all means we can send troops to A'stan, but how are we going to secure the lives of ordinary Indians?

By getting PA to wipe out the terrorist base for good. You need to get that done via Unkil and the rest of the international community via sanctions and embargoes. For that you need leverage over Unkil with a firm tie in over strategic goals and the ability to unhinge Unkil by walking out if they rat out on commitments against terror directed towards India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Dec 2008 14:29

to be realistic, India is unlikely to deploy more than a couple of divisions i.e. around 40,000 people in AF. secondly unlike the amirkhanis Indians do not want the huge fortified "green zone" compounds made of imported materials and having pizza hut and burger king. local materials, labours will be extensively used. thirdly the amirkhans probably import all of their food and water, which we can locally source - lot of bakras & fruits in that region to eat. we do not have the heavyweight logistical tail of a amirkhan division nor
we have so many air assets or a tail stretching back 10,000km to supply depots in europe.

but even though of 4000 extra RAW agents on the pak border is like a brown
pants job in pstan.

those who think Let/Jem are somehow "holding back" today are mistaken, they
are trying their level best to hurt us and some strikes are getting through. those that didnt get through, there are people bullets in their heads encased in concrete, feeding the fishes or in some forest ditches. true picture of the
dark war will only be revealed in future decades.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Dec 2008 14:55

This is a sick joke.India can put more pressure on Pak through Afghanistan by increasing and accelerating development works which is earning us the gratitude of the Afghan people.The US/NATO have badly handled collateral damage in fighting the Taliban and their stupid indiscriminate strikes have been exploited by the Taliban.We might end up in a similar situation as we found ourselves in Sri Lanka,where the IPKF ended up fighting the LTTE.OK,imagine that the Taliban is the equiv. of the LTTE,but the moment the IPKF killed civilians caught in the crossfire,they lost the goodwill of the locals who immediately sided with "their own kind",the LTTE.The same will happen in Afghanistan if we send in large number of troops,who will inevitably kill innocent Afghans.

Secondly,we are playing right into Uncle Sam's gameplan,that India must do the dirty work for the US in Asia.How can we let ourselves be fooled into this absurd situation.We are running shit scared-at least this govt. is,of fighting the real enemy Pakistan,but offers troops to fight another man's war in Afghanistan,the graveyard of invaders over the centuries! The British have tried twice and are losing the second round too,the Russians withdrew,the Pakis too,so is the US and NATO now.Afghanistan is divided all along tribal lines and alliances that change with the seasons.Let the Afghans find their own style of govt.,provided the poppy crop is under strict control.

If we really want to put military pressure on Pak in Afghanistan,then we should use only air power from our Central Asian bases existing or planned.The IAF could support allied ground forces (very carefully and only after the targets have been correctly identified as being Taliban/hostile) and with logistic help.It would also reduce the risk of casualties,which if we send in ground troops will be huge,from IEDs,etc.Did we not learn this the hard way in Lanka?This way both the Russians who are the regional overlord of Central Asia and the western alliance will both be kept happy.We will retain our neutrality and our anti-Pak/ISI stance,checkmating Pak's moves to conquer Afghanistan by its taliban proxy.Sending troops to Afghanistan when we cannot deal with Pakistan is going to be a political pwoderkeg and one can expect massive anti-govt. protests from a wide section of the country.It is a disastrous policy that could not have been better drawn up by a CIA cell if it existed in the current GOI/MEA/MOD setup.There appears to be a sinister group within the current GOI whos ee India's future only as a second class nation of slaves to do Uncle Sam's bidding.Does Uncle Singh want to be remembered by history as India's Uncle Tom?

India should instead shore up its defensive position all along the Indo-Pak border,especially in J&K where if any further mischief from the Paki side takes place must see us strike hard and deep into POK,which belongs to India.India can also use the covert method most effectively both in POK as well as in Afghanistan which will be less visible.Pak should be caught in a cleft stick.Unable to remove large forces from Afghanistan,in support of the US,while we support the govt. there through our air power based in the Central Asian republics,and unable to use the bogey of an Indian invasion to redeploy in strength on the LOC.

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 30 Dec 2008 15:01

Time to redraw the paki map to trace the path of the kabuliwala.

The front in Afghanland doesnt need to be be large imo, just enough to have them pakis look behind themselves once every two seconds. Soon they will be seeing visions of the yindu everywhere. This should drive them crazy. I see visions of the napaki not even going to the loo without the light on. The sdre kufr's are everywhere....

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 30 Dec 2008 15:07

ndia should instead shore up its defensive position all along the Indo-Pak border,especially in J&K where if any further mischief

Defensive position, further mischief,....

How much more sirji. Its like saying I will act tomorrow.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 30 Dec 2008 15:08

First prediction of mine to come true.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 21#p592021.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Dec 2008 15:09

and lo he raises the toilet seat to see a jack in box spring out singing hindu chants

even a 8000 person detachment would drive the pakis nuts imagining all sorts of moves and conspiracies in the shadows...

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 30 Dec 2008 15:17

There are potty training seats that belt out some smooth jingles...supposedly helps go....

Go pakis go and dont bother pulling your pants down.
Ya dont know when a sdre yindo will spring you,
so be ready to bolt...

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 30 Dec 2008 15:25

Singha sir... err I hope that was not a reply to my post.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Dec 2008 15:31

no, it was in response to earlier post about paranoid pakis.

chandrabhan · Post by **chandrabhan** » 30 Dec 2008 15:58

I simply can't make any head or tail of this hot air. Whoever has thought of this brilliant idea needs to let the moment of madness pass for the reasons..
1. What do we gain by putting our troops in harm's way doing the bidding of British and their attack dog - Amir khans? Putting pressure on TSPA to fight the taliban with a renewed zeal due to the fear of having arch enemy on western front as well, right? This is too costly a thought.

2. Why do we want the US to win in Afghanistan in the first place? How does it help us. AFAI think it wuits us to let Amirkhans bleed profusely and eventually scorch the land with some Bio/Chemical weapons as they just can't afford to be seen as defeated. Anyway they have also started realising that Tulli-bans are nothing but TSPA in mufti.

3. Are we afraid that US will pressurise India in respect to kashmir? We have resisted far more pressure and during far worse times and any letting of territory is a strict no-no.With the successful completion of Cashmere elections we have to more boastful and ask them to simply shut up. All we need to do is Allow some FDI in retail and get into No-clear power agreements.

4. How putting boots in Afghanistan will solve our terrorist problem? It will not help us in any way. The answer lies in just one way, across the LOC camps and decimation of top TSPA leadership along with always serving Hamid goool along with containment of IM's.

5. We must utilise our good relations with northern alliance to invest more money in Tajik-ujbek areas. Open more hospitals, schools.

6. Use the fissures between Ghilzais and durranis openely and work towards making the durand line redundant. This itself can occupy the TSPA. we don't need to put our boots on the ground.

7. I have mentioned earlier also, it suits us to do lip service to Amirkhans, engage them in nice chai-biscut sessions( expertise of our babus) but never commit any troops. We have been a direct victim of this 'Great Game theory' and now the the players are have become the pawns.

8. For the first time the attack dog and the master have got embroiled in this and that too in our backyard. We must watch with patience, Let the Anglo-saxons fight the scourge of radical islam they have helped create to to fight the ruskies also helped by their greed for oil. If we are serious about getting the older glory of Indic civilisation then this fight must continue. One day Amir khans will start pounding the TSPA directly for their complicity.

9. Europeans don't have the stomach for dead bodies. they just cna't take them. it means No-bama will have to bear more and the likely hood is that he will have to face the propect of a Shia bum very soon. It will sap their power and thus ability to needle India with respect to Pak-is- satan. We must continue to build our defence might with focus on indeginous production of key items. This is going to be a long and drawn out battle and there are going to be lot of dead bodies.

10. IMO we must not loose the upper hand in Afghanistan by putting our men in line of fire. We must infiltrate it with more RAW men, Activate support to Baluchis, they too have been done great injustice by that Jihnaaaa in 1948 by sending tanks. It's high time they too have their own country like the Pathans - ruled by Durranis off course. Get ready to give asylum to Karzai whenever he is dumped by Amirkhans in agreement with TSPA(good Taliban demand).

a. In case Amir khans want our help, we must ask for a 50Km wide land corridor through Norhtern areas of POK.
b. Nothin else can ensure the safety of our troops but we must wait for the right time.

Let us beef our internal security, wreck Porki security by creating more Toofan wazirs

We must not forget that we have been played for the past 60 years post independence by these guys Brits and US. SIt tight and watch the match, let the costs go high and don't try to replcae the 'Rentier state' in their list as new MUNNA. Let them kill more of each other.