Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

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bart
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by bart »

SSridhar wrote:
harbans wrote:We see that the Paki behaviour is confusing Indians for a long time. Now Rajnath is the latest cauality spouting the "Pakistan stable is in our interests' thing. Things are increasingly becoming clear for those who today want to see what many here have seen for years.
Harbans, good post. Someone must tell our PM, FM, bureaucrats, some influential & young and fresh politicians to spend sometime in BRf every day. I seriously mean it.
I think there is a difference between what to say in public and what to believe/think/implement.

I think public figures in India should continue to say stuff like 'Stable Pakistan is in India's interest' etc, while actually knowing better and in private putting all their efforts towards anarchy or at least status quo over there. Time to learn from the UKstanis in that regard.

Having said that, I think fossils like Advani/Rajnath just dont get it, or are misled by their advisors, rather than any chanakian strategy here.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by Lalmohan »

Rajesh-ji

good analysis, and I largely concur. My interpretation was that Germany was more independant and emotional about the Eustachi loving Croats than rational. You're also right about the extra entropy in the Pakistan equation, and just like the Yugoslav situation, that entropy will unleash utter barbarism, but several notches higher and more grisly.

so, where is the Slovenia equivalent - is it Baluchistan? with Iran playing the part of Germany? Is swat the analogue of croatia? who else has fingers in this pie? real fingers

what will cause the dominant player (Unkil) to say - ok, let it go. What role will dragon play in 'stay' or 'go'? If the dissolution is inevitable, who will back whom? Will pakjab end up like Serbia?
SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by SSridhar »

bart wrote:I think there is a difference between what to say in public and what to believe/think/implement.

I think public figures in India should continue to say stuff like 'Stable Pakistan is in India's interest' etc, while actually knowing better and in private putting all their efforts towards anarchy or at least status quo over there. Time to learn from the UKstanis in that regard.

Having said that, I think fossils like Advani/Rajnath just dont get it, or are misled by their advisors, rather than any chanakian strategy here.
bart, the reason why I said that was because we have a centralized source here for all info and anaysis on Pakistan. Whether the GoI leaders and public figures mouth pious platitudes but pay back in the same terror coin (or even worse) is a matter of implementation, though the pay back must be really, really painful.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by komal »

Why is the AQK Labs/its employees under attack?

because they serve as 'cover' for the ISI?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by harbans »

I think public figures in India should continue to say stuff like 'Stable Pakistan is in India's interest' etc, while actually knowing better and in private putting all their efforts towards anarchy or at least status quo over there. Time to learn from the UKstanis in that regard.

Why not state it openly? Is Pakistan not stating openly that Kashmir should detach? Was Balochistan not annexed by Pakistan? Why not openly say " we ascertain that a stable entity with nation state boundaries as controlled by Pakistan today will always be obsessed by Kashmir and be a source to foster perpetual instability and unrest in it's neighbourhood and beyond, as has been witnessed over the last 60 years. India has also been watching genuine nationalistic aspirations surface in Balochistan, Sindh, Seraistan, and the North Western provinces. The opinion of the Indian state is that transitioning Pakistan peacefully into smaller nation states is in our best interests. We do not support any longer, the notion that a stable Pakistan will be in the future interests of India."

Imagine if the Indian Minister of State for Foreign affairs or someone makes this statement. What do you think will be Pakistan's reaction? Their goose is cooked. Just think about it..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Norway closes down its Islamabad embassy
Norway closed its embassy in Islamabad Wednesday over security concerns, sources said Thursday.

According to Norwegian embassy official Austin, Norwegian Foreign Office issued directives to shut down the embassy over security reasons.

Austin said the decision regarding re-opening the embassy will be taken in the light of orders received from the Foreign Office.

According to sources, the Pakistani employees at the embassy have also been laid off. {which means the closure is more long term}
bart
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by bart »

SSridhar wrote:
bart wrote:I think there is a difference between what to say in public and what to believe/think/implement.

I think public figures in India should continue to say stuff like 'Stable Pakistan is in India's interest' etc, while actually knowing better and in private putting all their efforts towards anarchy or at least status quo over there. Time to learn from the UKstanis in that regard.

Having said that, I think fossils like Advani/Rajnath just dont get it, or are misled by their advisors, rather than any chanakian strategy here.
bart, the reason why I said that was because we have a centralized source here for all info and anaysis on Pakistan. Whether the GoI leaders and public figures mouth pious platitudes but pay back in the same terror coin (or even worse) is a matter of implementation, though the pay back must be really, really painful.
True. Its good that people like B. Raman and others in the media like Vishnu Som openly visit here, I am sure a lot of other such folk lurk as well.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by CRamS »

harbans wrote:I think public figures in India should continue to say stuff like 'Stable Pakistan is in India's interest' etc, while actually knowing better and in private putting all their efforts towards anarchy or at least status quo over there. Time to learn from the UKstanis in that regard.

Why not state it openly? Is Pakistan not stating openly that Kashmir should detach? Was Balochistan not annexed by Pakistan? Why not openly say " we ascertain that a stable entity with nation state boundaries as controlled by Pakistan today will always be obsessed by Kashmir and be a source to foster perpetual instability and unrest in it's neighbourhood and beyond, as has been witnessed over the last 60 years. India has also been watching genuine nationalistic aspirations surface in Balochistan, Sindh, Seraistan, and the North Western provinces. The opinion of the Indian state is that transitioning Pakistan peacefully into smaller nation states is in our best interests. We do not support any longer, the notion that a stable Pakistan will be in the future interests of India."

Imagine if the Indian Minister of State for Foreign affairs or someone makes this statement. What do you think will be Pakistan's reaction? Their goose is cooked. Just think about it..
Man, you've got to be kidding. Indian elites, and I am 400% sure Indian public at large, are willing to surrender Kashmir to TSP, and you are saying such a deluded eunuch populace is capable of the kind of aggressive, nationalistic posture you advocate, let alone back it up with substance?

I think that article by Kanwal Sibal highlights the pathetic state of India's policy towards TSP. Only is "Hindu terrorists" like you and me advocate what you suggest (yes, this is what an Indra Nooyi type corporate bigwig childhood friend of mine told me when I insisted that India should have nothing to with TSP until it stops terror). There is this cancerous growth in Indian thinking that India is on its way to superpowerdom, and economic might is what is in India's interests, and MMS is this stalwart bringing this about, and 'minor irritants' like TSP should not be an impediment in this endeavor.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by kenop »

A US soldier is in the hands of the Taliban

Will be interesting to see how this develops.
The Haqqanis -- who operate on both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border and are well known to the U.S. military -- are assembling shuras, or local councils of leaders, to talk and try to "legitimize" what they have done, the official said.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by RajeshA »

Lalmohan wrote:Where is the Slovenia equivalent - is it Baluchistan? with Iran playing the part of Germany? Is swat the analogue of croatia? who else has fingers in this pie? real fingers
As things stand, Iran cannot play the part of Germany. They have their own problem with the Baluchis, and they know, that other powers, aka, the Americans are more than keen to exploit those fissures. Any Baluchi independence from Pakistan will be a red rag for the Iranians.

Baluchi unrest in Pakistan has a destabilizing effect on Iranian Baluchistan as well. At the moment, all powers can exploit this Iranian weakness. Every Sunni fascist wants Shia Iran wiped off the map, far more than Ahmedinejad ever meant w.r.t. Israel. So pressure can be built by the Saudis, by Al Qaida, by Americans, by the British, etc. etc. Once the Chinese get Gwadar, even they could build up pressure on Iran to decrease the strategic value of its ports. So basically Baluchestan is one of the 6 Achilles heels of Iran, these being: Kurdish Kordestan, Arab Shia Khuzestan, Baluchi Baluchestan, Mujahideen-e Khalq Organisation, Pahlavi Monarchists & disenchanted liberal youth.

They can however be motivated to accept that, under a different premise. Baluchistan does not go for Independence, but rather for integration in the Indian Union. Baluchistan was a part of British India, and can again become a part of Independent India. Would Iran however want to share borders with a major country like India?

So what is on the table for Iran. In general, should India and Iran share borders, the Baluchi independence drive could be cooled in a similar way it has happened with Kurdistan. Kurdistan is split between Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran, as such there is hardly any hope for the Kurds to break free from Iran. Similarly Iran would want Baluchistan (portion under Pakistan now) to stay captive in a bigger federation. It does not matter whether it is Pakistan or India. But Pakistan already does that. What can India give the Iranians more than what they get on this issue?

One of the major reasons, why Iran would be afraid of taking down the Sunni 'power' to its east, is exactly because it too fears, that on the one hand the Baluchis in Pakistani Baluchistan would become free, giving the independence aspirations of Iranian Baluchis a shot in the arm, or that what would replace Pakistan would be an even bigger Sunni Talibanic/Al Qaida monster.

So if one wants to assuage Iran's fears on this score, one would have to give an alternate plan.
1. Basically it is the same plan that Indian idealists want to offer Pakistan - make LoC irrelevant, free flow of goods and people, etc. etc. India can offer Iran the same thing - free flow of goods and people across the 'Indo-Iranian' border, between the two Baluchistans.
2. Moreover there are far bigger chances, that India could quench Baluchi desire of independence, by treating the Baluchis with far more respect than Pakistanis ever gave them, by sharing with the Baluchis the fruits of prosperity. If the Pakistani Baluchis calm down within the Indian Union, the chances that the Iranian Baluchis too would calm down are far greater.
3. A far bigger market for Iranian gas and oil and other goods.
4. A stable border manned by the Indian BSF.
5. No interference would be allowed from the Americans.
6. The danger from some Sunni insurgency in Baluchistan would rapidly decrease. Taliban and Al Qaida and Jundollah will not be using Baluchistani territory or any other territory in India against Iran.

Only if we get Iran onboard on the break-up of Pakistan, would the chances be good that Pakistan does ultimately break-up, and India can create some other sort of a regional order there.

All this is a lot of convincing India would have to do, for Iran to accept the plan. But as of now, Iran will not play the role of Germany, but Baluchistan does have the potential to be the 'Slovenia'. If the Pakistani Army remains bogged down by the Pushtuns, the Taliban, then Baluchistan can be taken without Pakjab being able to do much about it. There are of course many other factors which decide on the feasibility of such a move.
Lalmohan wrote:what will cause the dominant player (Unkil) to say - ok, let it go.
When the costs outweigh the benefits, the threat outweighs optimism, and chaos causes thinktank overflow, then they will let it go.
Lalmohan wrote:What role will dragon play in 'stay' or 'go'?
A dominant player, a stabilizing factor, be it the Pakjabi Army or the Taliban even, is favorable to the Chinese, as they can hire any faction, which can deliver the goods. But what if no faction can do it, and those who can deliever, are either mighty pissed off at China or are aligned with India? An insurgency both on the Karakoram Highway and Gwadar takes away all economic benefits from China. A Pakistan busy only in cutting at each other, takes away all strategic benefits from China too, as these assets cannot be used against India. If Chinese involvement in Pakistan only leads to one or the other faction getting pissed off at China, and these factions start kidnapping Chinese workers and technicians as happened a couple of years ago, then the Chinese may rethink about continuing their cooperation with Pakjabi Army.

India just needs to keep on chipping off at Pakistani groups and their loyalties away from Pakistan.
Lalmohan wrote:If the dissolution is inevitable, who will back whom? Will pakjab end up like Serbia?
Pakjab is basically India's buffer/sink/helmet against all Sunni violence in Central Asia. All extreme Sunni violence should and would fall upon the Pakjabis, because they will be the ones who will be punished if Al Qaida's plot for the region goes wrong. Actually they will be punished even if it goes right! Also they are the ones who will have to face the tribal barbarians on the other side of the Indus.

So after India has hammered Pakjab long enough to form it into the right size and right quality helmet, then we will also have to take care of it, that it doesn't break. So unlike Serbia, who nobody needs, Pakjab can rest assured that India has great plans for it.

JMTs
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by RajeshA »

US soldier believed captured in Afghanistan by Khan Mohammad (the author :) ): AFP
A commander of the Taliban's hardline Haqqani faction told an AFP reporter that his militia had captured a US trooper and three Afghans in the province of Paktika, which borders Pakistan.
Question to the Gurus:
What are going to be the consequences of this kidnapping.
1. Exchange Sirajuddin's birathers for the American soldier.
2. Hamid Gul will be approached to talk to Jalalluddin to free the soldier, and Gul becomes nice guy.
3. Americans promise to leave the Haqqani Network alone in the future.
4. Haqqanis are promised a seat at the table in Kabul as the good Taliban.
5. The Americans get enraged so much that they give Haqqanis hell.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by chetak »

porkis waking up to smell the coffee.

‘Investigating Kargil’

'What have you done, my friend, Nawaz Sharif?' was how, as narrated in Bill Clinton's memoirs My Life, the Clinton-Nawaz discourse began soon after the photo-op at the steps of the White House on July 4, 1999. Nawaz Sharif had embarked on that fateful sojourn a little over ten years ago for a face-saving climb-down from Kargil. It triggered politico-military consequences for the country and within a span of another three months, Sharif was overthrown, and the country is still reeling from its effects. Musharraf's unceremonious exit after a rule of nearly nine years has made little or no difference at all.

During much of the eight week period preceding the July 4 meeting in Washington, we had looked helplessly at TV images of pinpoint artillery shoots and resultant instant pulverization of some of the nation's bravest sons on such mountainous salients in the war zone as Point 5140 (Dras), Point 5203 ( Batalik), Three Pimples (Dras) and Tiger Hill.

'Operation Badr', as it was called, was launched to coincide with thawing of snow and summer opening of India's National Highway 1A, which links Srinagar to Leh via Kargil. Regular army personnel of the Northern Light Infantry, supported by special forces, artillery, engineers and other combat support personnel, in the garb of mujahideen and under a well-executed cover plan, infiltrated through gaps into Indian territory to occupy mountain tops between the LoC and the highway at several points.

The writer is a retired vice-admiral and former vice-chief of the Naval Staff, Pakistan Navy. Email: [email protected]
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by KLNMurthy »

chetak wrote:porkis waking up to smell the coffee.

‘Investigating Kargil’

...


The writer is a retired vice-admiral and former vice-chief of the Naval Staff, Pakistan Navy. Email: [email protected]
This has more to do with inter-service rivalry in Pakistan than with any real coffee.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by Dipanker »

CRamS wrote: Man, you've got to be kidding. Indian elites, and I am 400% sure Indian public at large, are willing to surrender Kashmir to TSP, and you are saying such a deluded eunuch populace is capable of the kind of aggressive, nationalistic posture you advocate, let alone back it up with substance?

What is your basis when you claim you are 400% sure that Indian public at large is willing to surrender Kashmir to TSP?

Are you basing your comment on any recent poll I am not aware of? The last poll I am aware of, 70% Indian wanted Kashmir to remain part of India.

If you can't substantiate your above claim then you might want to move this post of yours to "Whine thread" maybe?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by Vivek K »

I second Dipankar's suggestion that CRAMS move his post to the whine thread.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by pgbhat »

COMMENT: Pakistan’s Kashmir problem —Alok Rai in Daily Times edit ...
(The present article grew out of a series of exchanges between two friends, one Indian, the other Pakistani. “Kashmir” is a problem with far-reaching consequences for both societies. It is important that members of civil society on both sides of the border talk to each other in a spirit of serious engagement, and so carry forward the people-to-people dialogue beyond the not insignificant level of biryani and banter. It is in that spirit that this view from India is offered.)

My proposition is simple — despite the proclamations of generations of Pakistani leaders, Pakistan’s Kashmir problem has nothing to do with Kashmir. It is a fact that the transfer of power in Kashmir way back at the time of Independence and Partition was a messy business — but that is over and done with.

As far as the UN Resolution is concerned, there is simply no possibility of a return to the status quo ante. Even if it were possible to imagine Pakistani forces vacating “Azad Kashmir” — a.k.a. POK, but why bother to go that way? — and of Indian forces vacating Indian Kashmir, there is no possibility of returning to that time in which the plebiscite was supposed to be held.

Further, it needs to be asked: what is the nature of the engagement of Pakistani civil society with “Kashmir”? Is it an engagement at the level of our common humanity — in the sense in which I may, for instance, be deeply involved with the tragedy of Africa? But if it is something more or other than that, it needs to be spelt out just what that something more is. Because the most evident explanation for Pakistan’s special claim to a locus standi in “the Kashmir problem” can only be in terms of the two-nation theory.

I realise that the state of Pakistan must have a somewhat fraught relationship with the two-nation theory — it is after all the necessary foundation for the state of Pakistan. But members of civil society may well feel — on both sides of the border — the “theory”, first propounded by the ideologue of Hindutva, Savarkar, was a historical blunder, a catastrophic political mistake, one that was at the root of millions of destroyed lives, Hindu and Muslim. It also left the Muslims of India, the putative beneficiaries, somewhat less politically consequential than they would have been otherwise.

(This rejection of the two-nation theory is entirely consistent in my mind with accepting the present reality of two independent, sovereign states, India and Pakistan, which should have mature relations.)

In the light of this, “Kashmir” becomes a way of addressing the Pakistani problem of legitimacy — because if Kashmir can be maintained as an “issue”, then the “two-nation theory” is still available as a founding principle, despite all that has happened in the last 60 years.

In the context of “Kashmir” that fatal “theory” raises its ugly head again. Still, it would be the height of political irresponsibility if it were to be legitimised now, and allowed to work its malign destruction again, unleashing the ethnic cleansing that would necessarily result in Kashmir — with its Muslim majority and its Hindu minority, in Jammu with its Hindu majority, and in Ladakh with its Buddhist majority. The notion of a religion-based plebiscite at this point in history is quite simply a horrible idea — and one that should be unthinkable even, perhaps particularly, in contemporary Pakistan. Is it?

I do not by any means wish to suggest that all is well in Kashmir — even in Indian Kashmir — I don’t know enough about the other one. The Indian state has a serious problem with commanding the loyalties of the people of Kashmir, who might legitimately be said to have a problem with the state of India and its armed forces.

It may be argued that the widespread exercise of democratic franchise by Kashmiris in the last election shows that the situation might be changing — that the people of Kashmir have, so to speak, voted with their votes, and voted not only in the immediate elections, but even in that hypothetical plebiscite on whether they wish to be a part of India.

But it would be silly — worse, cruel — to pretend that “India’s Kashmir problem”, and “Kashmir’s India problem”, has thereby come to an end. It hasn’t. A lot more needs to be done — and trigger-happy soldiers cannot be part of the solution.

But all this — and more, much more — has nothing to do with Pakistan. In fact, the best thing that Pakistan can do for the people of Kashmir — for whom many tears are shed — is to lay off, let be, recognise that while it can certainly make things worse — difficult for Indian forces of course, but also worse for the people of Kashmir — it can certainly not make them better. Pakistani meddling — infiltration, “freedom fighting”, etc — can only prolong the agony of the people of Kashmir and their ordeal at the hands of Indian forces.

But is Pakistani civil society prepared to recognise this? It appears that there is far too much invested — in terms of material resources, of course — but also in terms of emotion, of national purpose — for Pakistan to be able to let go of “the Kashmir problem”. This is not the same as letting go of Kashmir — nothing is going to change the situation on the ground, not in J&K, not in AJK. It is “Kashmir” — the foolish fantasy of “freeing” Kashmir — that enables the Army to maintain its stranglehold on Pakistan. The ideological investment in “freeing” Kashmir — in schools and out of them — will not easily be dissolved. Pakistan’s Kashmir problem is its inability to rid itself of the notion that it has a role to play in the resolution of Kashmir’s India problem.

There is of course the valid military insight that Pakistan can, by keeping “Kashmir” on the boil, bleed India, and “avenge Bangladesh”. But such is the dynamic set in motion by the explosive rise of jihadi Islam in Pakistan that now India, too, can crucify Pakistan by teasing it over Kashmir and so prolonging its ordeal at the hands of the jihadis.

However, it devolves upon civil society in both countries to force their states not to continue with this cynical game, a game in which Kashmir — and Kashmiris, “ours” and “yours” — are merely the pretext; the instrument, the bloodied means to a suicidal end, a wilful prolongation of the tragedy of South Asia.

But my Pakistani interlocutor assures me that it is the hour before dawn that is the darkest, that the present generation, even in Punjab, is ready to move out of this mutually destructive cycle and start a new chapter in the sad history of our sub-continent. I am writing this in the hope that he is right and I am wrong. Happy to be wrong.

The writer is a professor at the University of Delhi
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by Prem »

Even Kulkalank Nayyar knows Gilani/ Zahardair are Khusras and the power rest with Kiyani . This exposes WKK' idiotic
vision of Pakis being normal human. Paki Stable next door is not good for the region.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -379-hs-01
One does not see how the point of the terrorists’ attack on Mumbai can be stretched to a solution for Kashmir, however important the latter is. But then the Pakistani prime minister also raised the Kashmir issue when Jamaatud Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed was set free by the Lahore High Court.

The solution lies in both the civilian and military wings in Pakistan agreeing to a détente with India. But the army has given no evidence that it wants to bury the hatchet. Its proximity to America and the military aid it is getting from it has made Islamabad stiffer than before.

The Manmohan Singh-Gilani meeting in Egypt or the meeting of foreign secretaries can be successful only to the extent that Gen Kayani is willing to go. Can

he look at Pakistan’s relations with India without bringing in the past? Normalcy between the two countries depends on that. Washington can play an important role
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by SSridhar »

TSP files appeal against Hafeez Saeed's release. (Rediff, no URL)

This is pure natak just ahead of the proposed meeting between MMS & Gilani in Cairo.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by RajeshA »

‘Maulvi Nazir won’t resist operation’: Daily Times
PESHAWAR: Taliban leader Maulvi Nazir on Thursday distanced his group from Baitullah Mehsud’s TTP, and told Ahmedzai Wazir tribes that he would not attack the army, said tribal elders. “Maulvi Nazir has assured the Ahmedzai Wazir tribes that he would not attack security forces in case a military operation against Baitullah begins,” one of three tribal elders who met the Taliban leader told Daily Times.
These guys don't seem to make up their mind, and keep changing camps. Maulvi Nazir, from reports, do not seem to be that enthusiastic about taking on the Pakistani troops as Hafiz Gul Bahadur from North Waziristan, and has been known to be 'pro-Government'.
Another reason could be that Maulvi Nazir and Baitullah Mehsud both share South Waziristan, and he might have felt that it is a bit tight for him.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by shravan »

15 dead in suspected US missile strike in Pakistan

ISLAMABAD (AP) — U.S. missiles struck a training facility allegedly operated by Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and a militant hide-out Friday, killing 15 people and wounding 27 others, intelligence officials said.

The two attacks took place in South Waziristan, a Mehsud stronghold close to the Afghan border, two officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

=====
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by shravan »

2 Policemen killed in remote control blast

PESHAWAR: At least two Policemen were killed and four others received injuries in a remote-controlled blast in Berry Bagh area of Peshawar.

The blast occurred when unknown militants detonated remote-controlled bomb, as a police mobile patrolling in Yakatot area reached at Berry Bagh, killing two Policemen on the spot while four others including two passersby were injured in the attack.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by Lalmohan »

right now, life for a pakistani rural ordinary person in the north west must be pretty fraught. at least two taliban factions, the pak army and unkil are all shooting in your general direction. if you can avoid the cross fire, you might wonder if you are going to receive any of the services of the state, or law and order or even the most basic economic activity. your entire life may now be consumed by trying to feed your children and keep your womenfolk safe.

how long can this situation persist?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by arun »

X Posted.

The “Peoples Under Threat” Survey” which “seeks to identify those peoples or groups that are most under threat of genocide, mass killing or other systematic violent repression in 2008” has just been released.

Pakistan follows the form shown this month in the “Failed States” report and likewise puts in a strong performance in this report.

The press release put out by those who prepared the report, the Minority Rights Group, has a goodly proportion of its column inches devoted to Pakistan.

The Groups in Pakistan identified in the report as being at risk are “Baluchis, Hindus, Mohajjirs, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Ahmadiyas, Christians and other religious minorities”. Very interestingly the Punjabis of Pakistan are not identified as a Group that is at risk :wink: .:
War against Islamic extremists putting lives of civilians in Asian countries under extreme threat

2 July 2009

Being in the frontline of the war against Islamic extremists has put people under severe risk in Pakistan which leads a global ranking of countries where the threat to civilian life has risen the most in 2009, Minority Rights Group International says as it launches its annual global ‘Peoples Under Threat”’ ranking.

Pakistan is the most significant riser in the ranking compared to the last year and is now placed sixth. This is due to a dangerous combination of a rapidly escalating conflict against different Islamist groups in North-West Frontier Province and the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas, the existing use of violent repression to suppress dissidents in other areas of the country, and growing violence in national politics, MRG says.

“Ethnic and religious minorities across West Asia are under greater threat than ever before as a result of escalating military operations against Islamic extremists,” says Mark Lattimer, Director of Minority Rights Group International.

“As identity conflicts have taken hold, Pakistan and Afghanistan have become among the most dangerous places in the world for civilians,” he adds.

The recent escalation in fighting in Pakistan has resulted in the largest forced movement of civilians in the country’s history with some 2.5 million people displaced. Many of them are ethnic minority Pashtuns and include religious minorities such as Christians and Sikhs.

MRG says the crisis in north and west Pakistan can be seen as an extension of the failed tactics used in Afghanistan, with high civilian casualties from military operations, including aerial bombing from un-manned US drones, stoking opposition in Pashtun communities to the government and its allies.

Peoples under Threat is a ranking of countries where civilians face the biggest risk of genocide, mass killings or violent repression. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Burma, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Nepal are the Asian countries placed highest in the list. ……..............................

MRG
A briefing note, links to ranking tables, methodology etc. is available here:

Peoples Under Threat 2009
SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by SSridhar »

RajeshA wrote:These guys don't seem to make up their mind, and keep changing camps. Maulvi Nazir, from reports, do not seem to be that enthusiastic about taking on the Pakistani troops as Hafiz Gul Bahadur from North Waziristan, and has been known to be 'pro-Government'.
Another reason could be that Maulvi Nazir and Baitullah Mehsud both share South Waziristan, and he might have felt that it is a bit tight for him.
RajeshA, I do not believe this report about Maulvi Nazir of South Waziristan. Of course, there has been a long running feud between Nazir & Baitullah and a much longer running one between the Waziris and the Mehsuds. This was the clannish division that the PA wanted to sharpen and exploit and to a large extent they succeeded, but, the efforts of Sirajuddin Haqqani under a request from Mullah Omar to unify the warring factions, have largely succeeded. Gul Bahadur & Nazir hunt in pairs, like good fast bowlers in a game of Cricket. With Gul Bahadur having solidly thrown his support behind the TTP, I do not expect Maulvi Nazir to do otherwise. This story of Nazir promising not to scrap the Peace Deal or not to attack the PA, therefore, appears to me to be a planted story by the PA.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by RajeshA »

'Loose nukes greatest danger in Pakistan': IANS
"Pakistani authorities have a dismal track record in thwarting insider threats," writes Rolf Mowatt-Larssen, who served as a CIA officer for 23 years, in the July/August issue of Arms Control Today, published by the Arms Control Association.
Thus "The greatest threat of a loose nuke scenario stems from insiders in the nuclear establishment working with outsiders, people seeking a bomb or material to make a bomb. Nowhere in the world is this threat greater than in Pakistan.
"With the passage of time, the odds steadily increase that Pakistan will face a serious test of its nuclear security," he says suggesting, "for its part, the United States must be fully prepared to respond to this eventuality."
The Report:
Nuclear Security in Pakistan: Reducing the Risks of Nuclear Terrorism by Rolf Mowatt-Larssen: Arms Control Today » July/August 2009 Issue
RajeshA
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by RajeshA »

SSridhar wrote:
RajeshA wrote:These guys don't seem to make up their mind, and keep changing camps. Maulvi Nazir, from reports, do not seem to be that enthusiastic about taking on the Pakistani troops as Hafiz Gul Bahadur from North Waziristan, and has been known to be 'pro-Government'.
Another reason could be that Maulvi Nazir and Baitullah Mehsud both share South Waziristan, and he might have felt that it is a bit tight for him.
RajeshA, I do not believe this report about Maulvi Nazir of South Waziristan. Of course, there has been a long running feud between Nazir & Baitullah and a much longer running one between the Waziris and the Mehsuds. This was the clannish division that the PA wanted to sharpen and exploit and to a large extent they succeeded, but, the efforts of Sirajuddin Haqqani under a request from Mullah Omar to unify the warring factions, has largely succeeded. Gul Bahadur & Nazir hunt in pairs, like good fast bowlers in a game of Cricket. With Gul Bahadur having solidly thrown his support behind the TTP, I do not expect Maulvi Nazir to do otherwise. This story of Nazir promising not to scrap the Peace Deal or not to attack the PA, therefore, appears to me to be a planted story by the PA.
SSridhar ji,
From what I understand, and that is not that much, Maulvi Nazir supported Qari Zainuddhin in the Mehsud tussle. The latter met his 72 some time back. That is a possible source of discontent. Maulvi Nazir was also a mujahid with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hizb-e-Islami, which had close relations with the ISI. He is still possibly under the ISI influence.

Sirajuddin Haqqani and Mullah Omar were able to unite Baitullah, Gul Bahadur and Nazir under one umbrella in order to get them to together fight the Americans in Afghanistan. However there remained a difference between Baitullah and the rest regarding fighting Pakistani troops. Hafiz Gul Bahadur, as I read somewhere, did not mind locking horns with the Pakistani troops, but the elders in his tribe, the Utmanzai were adamant about a peace treaty with the Govt. and held him back. Maulvi Nazir was never too keen on taking on the Pakistan govt. anyway. He also made common cause with the Pakistani Govt. in pushing back the Uzbeks. In that way, he is indeed different from Hafiz Gul Bahadur. Recently the attack on the Pakistani Army troops that killed 27 soldiers was carried out by Hafiz Gul Bahadur. I haven't heard of Maulvi Nazir being that active against Pakistani troops and really hitting out at them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by arun »

Moveover Iraq.

All the many IED Mubaraks affirming and reaffirming the IEDology of Pakistan result in a Pakistani proclaiming the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to be the “Suicide Bombing Capital of the World”.:
Pakistan turned into suicide bombing capital of the world

Amir Mir
Friday 3 July 2009

LAHORE: The unending spate of lethal suicide bombings across Pakistan has killed 465 people and injured 1121 in 36 attacks carried out by human bombs in the first six months of 2009 - between January 2 and July 2 - literally turning the country turned into the suicide bombing capital of the world.

…………….... Data compiled by the Pakistani authorities, shows that the human bombs struck 36 times in the first six months of 2009 in various parts of Pakistan and killed at least 90 people a month on average. While the per week average killing for the first 180 days of 2009 comes to 18, the daily average casualty rate due to suicide attacks stood at three persons………….............

The number of suicide attacks rose up from 56 in 2007 to 66 in 2008, killing 965 people during that year compared with the 837 people killed by human bombs in 2007. The bombers killed 78 people a month on average in 2008 across Pakistan, compared with the average of 70 killings a month in 2007. But if the brutal trend of suicide strikes recorded across Pakistan in the first six months of the year 2009 is anything to go by (465 people killed in 36 attacks), it may turn out to be the worst year ever for the people of Pakistan.

M E Transparent
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by sum »

And these were the same turds who were gloating and virtually bursting with joy when the first suicide bomber/fidayeen struck in J&K somewhere in 2000-01(??), saying that the SDRE would soon pack up after being unable to match the suicide bombers/fidayeen.

8 years later, every nook and corner of Pak is being IED mubarak-ed by suicide bombers while the SDREs using their cunning have virtually wiped out such tactics from their territories.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

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Ahmedzai Wazirs to abide by peace deal
The tribe took the decision after its 120 elders and notables met Political Agent Syed Shahab Ali Shah and other senior officials in Wana.

Officials claimed that a group of elders had earlier met militant commander Maulvi Nazir and held ‘successful’ talks with him.

However, sources close to Maulvi Nazir, a staunch supporter of the Taliban movement, expressed ignorance about any such meeting.

Maulvi Nazir, who won government backing after he had launched an armed campaign against Uzbek militants in 2007, joined Baitullah Mehsud and Hafiz Gul Bahadur and formed a united front in February this year, pledging to fight their common ‘enemy’. {The three declared at that time that they had overcome the ‘divide and rule’ policy of the Pakistani government which they blamed for “more losses to mujahideen than the US. It handed over 700 Arab mujahideen to the US and jailed our people”. }

The sources said the Ahmadzai Wazir jirga was a part of government’s attempt to isolate Baitullah Mehsud, the head of the banned Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.

The government came under pressure when Hafiz Gul Bahadur, who was in its good books, scrapped the peace agreement in North Waziristan and claimed responsibility for the June 28 attack on a military convoy in which 27 soldiers were killed.

Assistant Political Agent Abdul Ghafoor Shah described Thursday’s jirga as successful and said that Ahmadzai Wazir tribesmen would work for peace in their area.

The political administration released six tribesmen as a goodwill gesture at the request of the jirga.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by RajeshA »

SSridhar ji,

A more clear picture as to where Maulvi Nazir stands will become clear once he undertakes some concrete operation against the Pakistani troops. Until such time, IMHO, he should be considered a fence-sitter and one who uses empty rhetoric to prop up his Taliban credentials.

Perhaps more importantly, it is to be seen whether Pakistani Jernails have been bribed enough to backstab Sirajuddin Haqqani, or whether ISI continues to act as the patron, savior of the Haqqani network. Now that Operation Khanjar is on from the Afghanistan side, and the Pakistanis have promised to cut off the border for the fleeing Taliban, would the Pakistanis finally take down their protégés.

It will be a big thing should the Haqqani Network turn their backs on Pakistan and join Baitullah in teaching Pakistan a lesson about meddling in Pushtun affairs.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by AmitR »

Swat, Bajaur IDPs face bleak future

I read this article and felt really sad for the Pashtuns. They are the ones who finally got caught in the cross-fire between the pakis and the Americans. Especially heart rending is to read about the children that have been orphaned. Pakjabis have completely managed to destroy the tribals there is no hope left for them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by anupmisra »

AmitR wrote:I read this article and felt really sad for the Pashtuns.
The same pashtuns who would, throughout history, periodically raid the plains of India to rape, pillage, loot, murder, kidnap, destroy, mutilate and burn our ancestors? The same pushtuns who, in 1948, carried on their fine tradition (see above) in J&K? Amit, I think you should reconsider your current affection for the pashtuns. Hang around BR for a bit longer.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Big Breaking News

UNSC & US Treasury implicate Dawood Ibrahim, LeT & Al Qaeda for Samjhauta & Mumbai commuter train bombings.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Punjab Govt appeals against Hafeez Saeed's release and the reason given betrays intentions
The appeal against the Lahore High Court order, filed in the apex court this morning, said Saeed needed to be detained for his own "protection".
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by pgbhat »

SSridhar wrote:Punjab Govt appeals against Hafeez Saeed's release and the reason given betrays intentions
The appeal against the Lahore High Court order, filed in the apex court this morning, said Saeed needed to be detained for his own "protection".
:roll:
Ofcourse yes ... otherwise he will blow himself up .
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Selected Nuggets from TFT
Jamaat-e-Islami fighting Pak army

Federal Minister for Food Nazar Muhammad Gondal was quoted by Jang as saying that men belonging to Jamaat Islami were involved in fighting the Pakistan army on the side of the Taliban. He said the Jamaat had converted the NWFP into a ball of fire (aag ka gola).

Russia, come help!

From London Barrister Zahur Butt wrote in Nawa-e-Waqt that in the 1980s America came and helped the Afghans in defeating Russia. Now America had come to Afghanistan just as Russia did. It was now time for Russia to come down and help the Afghans and others in defeating America.

Treat Hafiz Said well!

Chief Editor Jinnah wrote that he noted that leader of Jamaatud Dawa was being brought to the court in an ordinary police van in which he must be subject to great heat. He should be provided with an air-conditioned car because he was the general of those people who fought India without a salary. Why should we maltreat him to please the Indians?

Lashkar Jhangvi links

Columnist Nazir Naji wrote in Jang that sectarian jihadi organisations such as Lashkar Jhangvi were linked to Al Qaeda and were working together with Jandullah to target Shias in Iran and Pakistan. Under these two, a large number of youths from Balochistan were taking training in South Waziristan. Al Qaeda, Jandullah and Lashkar Jhangvi had set up their office in Karachi recently. According to Nawa-e-Waqt, Pakistani ambassador was protested to by Iran after Jandullah accepted responsibility for attacks in Zahedan.

Former ISI chief speaks!

Daily Nawa-e-Waqt Magazine interviewed ex-ISI chief General (Retd) Javed Nasir describing him as the warrior who together with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif fought the chau-mukhi war against the US, India, Russia, Israel and many other countries. General Nasir said the Americans were after Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and Taliban were foreigners who were peaceful citizens living in Pakistan after marrying Pakistani wives.

Jamaat Ali Shah shocks

Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt Indus Waters Treaty Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah, while leaving for New Delhi to talk about waters shared by India and Pakistan, said that Pakistan was getting its share of waters under the Indus Treaty and that building a dam was the right of India. He said less water in Pakistani rivers was because of lack of rain, not because India had blocked it. The statement was a shock to many who thought India was waging a water war against Pakistan. :lol:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by RajeshA »

Back to Mumbai by Wajahat Latif: The Nation
Visitors from the third world these days, especially, from Pakistan, know the cold treatment given to them at the Heathrow. Regardless of sex they are singled out at the slightest pretext. A wrongly filled landing card, a question asked in accented English not immediately understood; any excuse is good enough for harassment of the unfortunate green passport holder.
Gong to restaurants, theatres and department stores of the West End, there is a noticeable change of attitude. There may be no blatant rudeness in shops and cafes but as a coloured person you are made to feel different. The sales persons in upper crust stores seem reluctant to serve you, giving you the minimum time necessary, the face straight, no trace of a smile. A white cabbie may not stop when you hail a taxi. And when he does, you are made to feel he is doing you a favour you may not deserve.
I thought this sort of treatment was reserved for Pakistanis, but towards the Indians it was a degree less discriminatory. The Indian image in the west is comparatively less trashed than that of Pakistan. Their economic growth and IT capability has helped to create that impression. Shining India became an international slogan in the time of the previous BJP government. But since the 80s in England, I believed the Indians had less reason to complain.
Miyan Latif,
If it is any consolation, the Brits would be forced to forget all racism towards India, and who knows, may be you Pakistanis may also benefit from that. So for your own sake and those of your grandchildren, hope that India makes huge strides in her economy and national strength. May be then even the vermin from Pakistan may be able to hide in her shadow.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Post by bart »

SSridhar wrote:Big Breaking News

UNSC & US Treasury implicate Dawood Ibrahim, LeT & Al Qaeda for Samjhauta & Mumbai commuter train bombings.
I dont think this will translate to concrete action on the ground against Dawood, given that the US has yet to get Pakistan to act against OBL.

But it does give the lie to all the equal-equal Paki BS that 'Indian terrorists' sabotaged the Samjhauta express, so India should not point the finger at Pakistan for 26/11 atacks from Paki soil.
Last edited by bart on 03 Jul 2009 18:26, edited 1 time in total.
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