INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

[Raj Malhotra]

I think our fleet should be SSN=24 SSBN = 12 and Conventional no more after 6 Scorpene

[Singha]

thinking outside the box - why do nuclear subs have sails at all ?

the old WW2/50-70s method of sailing on the surface at night to snorkel and recharge
batteries is gone

a MPA plane will easily pick up the radar return of even a periscope from tens of km away,
not to speak of a huge sail

periscopes and other masts are all going in for stealth shaping

the only time people emerge from the sub is dockside

optronic mast and sonar does a far better job of collision avoidance than a lookout
up in the sail

with physical telescopes being replaced by kollmorgen style masts seen in virginia,
the need for a huge hydraulic tubes and CIC located just below sail is gone.
CIC can be relocated anywhere and fed by fiber optic and electrical lines.

onlee reason I can think of is a 'hammer' to break thin sheet of artic ice sheet
and a place to hold the hydroplanes.

I can see sails becoming stubbier and even more Akula-mki-ish until just a hatch,
hydroplenes is left. the optronic masts would slide down and be flush with the hull.

if a sail is retained, it could well be a armed UUV/SFsub that clips on flush where
the old sail used to be and detaches as needed.

DCN was even showing off a twin hulled catamaranish sub design...massive increase
in internal volume, though implications of a underwater catamaran are uncertain.

[NRao]

My guess is that Arihant has a backend of Akula mated to truncated front end of Borei

would like to agree with you on that say 70% akula 30% borei

Fine, if you say so.

The question that I still have is , wasn't the Borei design fairly late in the game to be incorporated into the Arihant class?

[shiv]

Is it at all possible that there is some originality in thought and design with regard to Arihant?

Aren't we master self goals scorers wherein we insist that anything made in India has some major firangi input, and later claim it is indigenous and end up sounding exactly like Pakis. (which is all that we may be ultimately, given the history of the subcontinent)

The ALH for instance has some European input - but actually has no European competitor. The LCA? Is it the back end of a MiG mated with the wings of something else?

Ultimately all subs, all planes and all tanks look like each other. Despite its later origins I cannot recall people insisting that the F 15 was a copy of the MiG 25. they certainly have similarities. There is absolutely zero factual basis for what is speculation on this thread. But the speculation like Paki pindigenous production is getting more and more "certain" and soon, in the absence of other information we will have description of Arihant on Facebook, Orkut, Twitter, a hajaar blogs and a few "respected military publications" saying Arihant has the ass end of X and nose of something else?

[symontk]

Not sure if this can be done, but gurus can contribute.

Can a Nuclear submarine practically "recharge" the batteries of a Diesel Submarine deep underwater?

[Surya]

now now shiv - how dare you !!!!

over to you shankarosky

[dinesha]

Submarine reactor was built from land-based prototype

Looks like this news item is sourced from now very famous paanwala..

Kalpakkam (Tamil Nadu), Aug 2 (IANS) INS Arihant, India’s first indigenously designed and built nuclear powered submarine launched a week ago, is energised by a power pack that was developed from a land-based prototype version, a nuclear scientist revealed here Sunday.
The scientists’ team was given the mandate to develop a land-based prototype power pack for a submarine and development and construction of a nuclear steam generating system for the sea-going version, There is a sea of difference between designing a nuclear power pack to propel a submarine and a land-based atomic power station, Srikumar Banerjee, director of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) and member of the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), told reporters here.

The 82.5 MW nuclear reactor for submarine has been designed here by PRP Centre - PRP originally stood for Plutonium Reprocessing Project - under the BARC. The PRP Centre is located inside the Kalpakkam nuclear enclave, 45 km from Chennai, housing various atomic energy related entities.

“While a land-based atomic power plant gets support from the grid and others, a nuclear power pack in a submarine does not have such fallback systems,” Banerjee said. He said the major challenges were miniaturisation of the land-based plant to fit into the confined space of a submarine and also making it lightweight but strong enough to endure the shock due to depth discharge. “The reactor while withstanding the pitch and roll of a submarine should also be capable of accelerating and decelerating at a quick pace - unlike a land-based power plant which would ramp up speed in a gradual manner,” he added.

To generate power, the steam turbine should be operated at 3,000 revolutions per minute (rpm) whereas the nuclear submarine propulsion turbine will be operated at variable speed of 0 to 4,000 rpms. The reactor designed for a long fuelling cycle time is capable of remaining under water for an extended period, the sortie time being essentially dictated by the endurance of the crew.

The land-based version kept here was conceived and built as a technology demonstrator for the compact pressurised water reactor with a load following capability.

Also known as ‘half boat’, the entire propulsion plant with primary, secondary, electrical and propulsion systems along with its integrated control was packed in the aft end of the land-based submarine hull designed and built specifically for this purpose.

While in sea the reactor supplies super-heated steam to the propulsion plant to run the submarine, at the PRP Centre the propulsion power is absorbed in the dynamometer which in turn is cooled by sea water.

Banerjee said major components of the submarine reactor were made by domestic industries. “The reactor vessel is made of special grade steel by Heavy Engineering Corporation, Ranchi, steam generator by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL), pressure valves were made by Audco India, Chennai, and others,” he added.

New materials of construction and new technologies were used in building the reactor. The uranium enriched metallic fuel is new too.
There are around 13 fuel assemblies with each assembly having 348 fuel pins.

“It is not just building a nuclear reactor to power a submarine. For us, it is capacity building in the country to get into high technology areas,” said AEC chairman Anil Kakodkar.

PRP facility director Sekhar Basu said the centre will now be the training ground for personnel planning to operate reactors in submarines apart from carrying out research activities.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/sci ... 26603.html

[negi]

So it is now confirmed beyond any doubts that the reactor that powers INS Arihant is designed and developed inhouse (w RU consulting); following few nuggets are very promising and noteworthy.

“The reactor vessel is made of special grade steel by Heavy Engineering Corporation, Ranchi, steam generator by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL), pressure valves were made by Audco India, Chennai, and others,” he added.

i.e. we are all set for indigenous design and manufacturing of Arihant class nuclear submarines .

[Gagan]

The Delhi class destroyer was supposed to be a mix of the Kashin class, a Godavari class and a Sovremenny class. But does it at all look similar? Does it at all perform similar? It is a wonderful design, done jointly by Indians and the Russians, somewhat inspired from, but completely different from those three classes of destroyers.
Try telling someone, that the Delhi class is a Kashin's front end stuck to the Sovremenny's middle end with the godavari's hanger.

The arihant is, in plain words, The Arihant Class.

[John Snow]

So my gues was correct about involvement of PSUs and the design being uniquely Indian.

But note that HEC and BHEL benefitted from initial Russian collabration, (later Siemens, Mitsibushi/Hitachi Brown Boveri lines were added)

Wish BHPV, IL, ECIL, BEL also contibuted ( I am sure they might have indded in a small way otherwise the boat would have been finished by now )

***
Added later there were Czech designs for the steam turbines for BHEL manufacture at HYderabad

[NRao]

Is it at all possible that there is some originality in thought and design with regard to Arihant?

Aren't we master self goals scorers wherein we insist that anything made in India has some major firangi input, and later claim it is indigenous and end up sounding exactly like Pakis. (which is all that we may be ultimately, given the history of the subcontinent)

To add to that:

In all honesty I think the fact that the Russians "consulted" is totally misplaced or perhaps even lost. Consulting is not ToT, but could be confused with ToT because the consultants, obviously, are biased by their own experiences. The final product will take on a look-and-feel of what the consultants at hand are used to. Specially in as a complex a system like the Arihant.

From an Indian PoV, sure there will be plenty of ideas that are "borrowed" - BUT, I would hope with the explicit intent to improve upon them and create something that is desirable for the Indian environment.

[John Snow]

From an Indian PoV, sure there will be plenty of ideas that are "borrowed" - BUT, I would hope with the explicit intent to improve upon them and create something that is desirable for the Indian environment.

It is always so. From my experience in Design, Manufacturing, commissioning and consulting I can give you very many examples from both Pvt sector, Public sector, and OFB.

One example, In medak project for BMP, the Russian consultant and drawings for a component called for 2000T mechanical press, but the Indian bidders for the press and tools came up with many different solutions which were more effective and all locally made, the component was made in different capacity (smaller) presses with multiple operations. It was not just the press of hoigh tonnage but the tool was 4 times more expensive with Russian design.

Even the WDM2 Railway engines of Alco make were heavily modified by Chittaranjan Locomotive Factory, the same with many white goods of be it GE or carrier we have to modify to suit local manufature, skills, equipment and ambient conditions and the doctrine.

( Godrej, HMT, and many foreign suppliers were tugging in the case of OFP Medak, but the guys though corrupt always picked best of the lot )

[Austin]

this technology surely even they will not give to thier newest ally -we need to develop ourselves and quickly -no point in having anuclear sub and making it vulnerable everytime it comes up near surface to communicate

Thank Shankar ,blue green laser for sub surface communication was something I had read a decade and half back and DRDO had some generic paper on it since early 80's ,
but all said and done Blue Green laser still seems to be in the domain of research and proof of concept demonstration.

Once operationalize this will revolutionalise deep subsurface communication with high data rates , but to be practical feasible blue green laser is still decades away.

[dinesha]

'N-submarines with missiles offer best second-strike chance'

Kalpakkam (Tamil Nadu), Aug 2 (IANS) Nuclear-powered submarines with capacity to launch ballistic missiles offer the best second-strike capability for a nation, an Indian naval officer said here Sunday.

Kalpakkam (Tamil Nadu), Aug 2 (IANS) Nuclear-powered submarines with capacity to launch ballistic missiles offer the best second-strike capability for a nation, an Indian naval officer said here Sunday.

'It is the only system that offers safe second-strike capability. The normal range of submarine-launched ballistic missiles will be 8,000 km. Compared to land-based missile launch pads, submarines are difficult to detect,' Rear Admiral Michael Moraes, Flag Officer (submarines), told reporters at Kalpakkam, around 45 km from Chennai.
He was participating in the fifth year celebrations held by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre's (BARC) PRP unit here.

For the first time in its history, the BARC threw open the PRP Centre that developed the nuclear reactor powering India's first indigenously developed nuclear submarine INS Arihant, launched last week.

India launched its first indigenously developed SSBN INS Arihant last Sunday. Moraes said the Indian Navy needs around 13 more submarines to beef up its fleet.

'We may need four SSBNs and nine SSNs. Our current submarine fleet strength is 16.' SSBN denotes submersible ship, with ballistic missile launch capacity and nuclear powered, whereas SSN implies submersible ship, nuclear powered.

The government has already approved the building of four SSBNs.According to the officer, the commissioning of SSBN INS Arihant will take around two more years as all the systems have to be checked. He said the nuclear submarine will be manned by a 100-member crew. 'The noise levels in the nuclear submarine are fine and the hull life is around 25 years.' Queried about the reactor life, he added: 'Normally the hull and reactor life would coincide. The reactor will not be dismantled and fitted in another submarine.'

[John Snow]

The SSBN communications issue is especially acute, but China has been grappling with this particular problem for more than two decades. According to Admiral Liu, China on 16 April 1984 used "the satellite communications system for our nuclear-powered submarines to test the channels" of the Dong Fang Hong-2 communications satellite, which had been launched eight days before. "The navy's satellite communication system for its nuclear-powered submarines was the first one to open a test communication line with the satellite," Admiral Liu reports. "The success of the nuclear-powered submarine's experiment on instantaneous transmission of messages via the satellite ... pushed China's submarine communication to a new level." (110)

Centralization is arguably essential for SSBN command and control, particularly in the highly centralized PLA. According to John Wilson Lewis and Xue Litai, China's SSBN force, like all other nuclear units, is overseen by the Strategic Forces Bureau. This arrangement is intended to ensure that "only the [Central Military Commission] Chairman--not China's president--has the authority to launch any nuclear weapons after getting the concurrence of the Politburo Standing Committee and the [Central Military Commission]." (111)

However, it is unclear to what extent centralized SSBN command, control, and communication (C3) would be technologically possible for China. "At present China's communications infrastructure is vulnerable to a first strike," Garth Hekler, Ed Francis, and James Mulvenon contend. "As a result, the SSBN commander would require explicit and restrictive rules of engagement and ... targeting data, lest crisis communications with Beijing reveal [the SSBN's] position to hostile attack submarines or if the submarine is cut off from Beijing after a decapitating first strike." On the broader question of submarine force command and control doctrine, it is suggested, "While the PLAN may recognize the effectiveness of decentralized C3 for certain types of submarine missions, it appears to be seeking to create a more tightly centralized submarine C3 system by developing command automation, network centric warfare strategies, and advanced communications technologies." (112)

Naval War College Review, Wntr, 2007 by Andrew S. Erickson, Lyle J. Goldstein

[Gerard]

Arihant propulsion reactor unveiled

The 42-metre-long land-based prototype submarine with eight compartments housing complex electrical and control systems and simulating ocean conditions, is a virtual testing ground for “similar systems that will go into a sea boat,” Atomic Energy Department officials said.

[shravan]

First-hand report of India's N-sub reactor
Video

Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 , India
For the first time, NDTV brings you details about the novel nuclear reactor that powers this submarine.

--
Sorry if already posted.

[csharma]

Kakodkar has emphatically said that the reactor is Indian and Indians should feel proud of it. So it is clear that the reactor is Indian designed and manufactured. He also said that noboby would sell this kind of technology.

[Gerard]

link

I'm more aghast by India's move into the nuclear arms front. To be fare, their dodgy neighbour is highly unstable and if you've watched any kind of decent television you'll know that the Pakistanis store all their nuclear material in leaky flasks on avalanche prone mountain tops in rickety sheds that could explode at any moment wiping out the entire region, so you can't blame India for wanting to be prepared.

But this is a civilised nation. They play excellent cricket for goodness sakes. They have Sachin. And Gary Kirsten. Why do they need a nuclear sub, especially one called Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies in plain "we intend to royally ****** you up" English)?

That's nice and subtle. "Hey Pakistan. We have a submarine. It's called Destroyer of Enemies. Just send some punks over to Mumbai again and see what happens. Bam. No more Lahore. That'll teach you."

[Bharath.Subramanyam]

Arun_S wrote : "BTW "anyone on this board" means those who participates and we can hear their postings on this board v.s non-discript stealth browsers like Condi Rice who is also known to brows this forum before she took a position in Bush administration."

Arun ji - isn't this a little exaggeration ? Most readers of BRF would be Indians who are interested in Military affairs etc. That too, Indian who are outside India and in India who are in big cities with access to good internet speed. This is a minuscule minority. And some Pakistani & Chinese internet "tigers".

How can we say, of all things Ms Rice used to browse this forum? If they had, they wouldn't have messed up Afghanistan to this extant. Isn't it?

[sivab]

http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/03/stories ... 810100.htm


A BEGINNING: The 80 MWe indigenous PWR at Kalpakkam. In the foreground is the pressure hull and behind is the shield tank that contains water and the reactor.

PWR building shows indigenous capability, says Kakodkar

T.S. Subramanian

CHENNAI: India building an 80 MWe Pressurised Water Reactor (PWR) at Kalpakkam near here “marks the beginning of its indigenous PWR capability,” Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) Chairman Anil Kakodkar said on Sunday.

An identical PWR of the same capacity would propel the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant that was launched on July 26. The two PWRs were built by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC). Enriched uranium would fuel them, and light water was both coolant and moderator. The Rare Materials Project at Ratnahalli, near Mysore, produced the enriched uranium. “For nuclear power generation also, the PWR technology is most popular worldwide,” Dr. Kakodkar said.

...

The PWR, housed in a huge hall, has a massive pressure hull, a shielding tank with water and reactor inside, a reactor pressure vessel made of special steel, a control room and an auxiliary control room.

“The reactor is running now. All the safety related parameters are monitored in the auxiliary control room,” said A. Moorthi, scientific officer, BARC, who showed reporters round the reactor. The land-based reactor and the PWR that has been packed into Arihant’s hull are on a 1:1 scale.

Dr. Kakodkar said the PWR at Kalpakkam was an addition to the nation’s family of reactors.
...

Srikumar Banerjee, Director, BARC, called the introduction of indigenous PWR technology in the country “a major step” in the activities of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE). The BARC was mandated to develop a land-based prototype PWR and also a compact nuclear pack for submarine applications.

“The complexity increases manifold in a submarine due to the miniaturisation of the already complex systems,” Dr. Banerjee said. Besides, power should rise fast from 25 per cent to 100 per in a few minutes in the reactor of a nuclear-powered submarine. It should reach full speed in a few minutes. So, special attention had to be paid to the design of the reactor.

S. Basu, Director of BARC Facilities at Kalpakkam, said the successful operation of the PWR at Kalpakkam for the past three years generated data for the submarine version.

Arihant was a joint project of the DAE, the Navy and the DRDO.

[Arun_S]

How can we say, of all things Ms Rice used to browse this forum? If they had, they wouldn't have messed up Afghanistan to this extant. Isn't it?

We know what we know. From all that I know Rice was here to get feel of the pulse of Indian people and Indian perspective, not to learn from BRFites how to run Iraq and AfPak campaign .

[rakall]

First-hand report of India's N-sub reactor
Video

Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 , India
For the first time, NDTV brings you details about the novel nuclear reactor that powers this submarine.

--
Sorry if already posted.

Some good details from the video..

1. Possible CAD model (first offical pics) of Arihant at 0.23sec (hull doesnt look circulat at all in this model)
2. Total containment volume 3 m^3 per MW at 1.29sec
3. Pallv Bagla says top speed of 70kmph = 37.8knots (should be submerged) at 1.32sec


Dirty Yindoo clandestine operation -- they name it Plutonium recylcing project; and actually go build a PWR for a nukeSub.. thats how yindoos maintain secrecy..

[PratikDas]

link

I'm more aghast by India's move into the nuclear arms front.
...
But this is a civilised nation. They play excellent cricket for goodness sakes. They have Sachin. And Gary Kirsten. Why do they need a nuclear sub, especially one called Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies in plain "we intend to royally ****** you up" English)?

That's nice and subtle. "Hey Pakistan. We have a submarine. It's called Destroyer of Enemies. Just send some punks over to Mumbai again and see what happens. Bam. No more Lahore. That'll teach you."

This is such a funny article. "Civilised nations" who keep touting themselves as developed countries invented the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction. How wonderfully "subtle" that was! India chose Minimum Credible Deterrence, and that isn't a surprise. But, the author is aghast so lets all empathise

[Arun_S]

http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/03/stories ... 810100.htm


A BEGINNING: The 80 MWe indigenous PWR at Kalpakkam. In the foreground is the pressure hull and behind is the shield tank that contains water and the reactor.

PWR building shows indigenous capability, says Kakodkar

T.S. Subramanian

CHENNAI: India building an 80 MWe Pressurised Water Reactor (PWR) at Kalpakkam near here “marks the beginning of its indigenous PWR capability,” Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) Chairman Anil Kakodkar said on Sunday.

BTW this is no typo error here the Arihant's indigenous power plant is indeed ~190MWt.

Indian navy sent crew of ~300 people to Russia to get experience on running a similar sized reactors, not to learn learn Charlie class reactor that in any case ceased to exist when teh last of the Charlie was wrecked in late 1990's. They were there working on bigger power plant.

Hats off to DAE/BARC/Anil-Kakodkar for this singular achievement. Good job !!

[Arun_S]

Yes top speed will be ~40 Kt. And obviously the submarine hull is bigger than what was initially thought.

[PratikDas]

.....
BTW this is no typo error here the Arihant's indigenous power plant is indeed ~190MWt.
.....
Hats off to DAE/BARC/Anil-Kakodkar for this singular achievement. Good job !!

Saar, at the 01:30 timestamp in the NDTV video a poster clearly shows the power rating to be 100 MWt, not 190 MWt.

Added later: I quoted the last line of your post because I too would like to join in congratulating our organisations in creating an indigenous compact nuclear power plant. Regardless of the exact power rating, the power plant is said to have a "fine" noise level. Surely that must be equally important. I am also impressed by this:

“The reactor is running now. All the safety related parameters are monitored in the auxiliary control room,” said A. Moorthi, scientific officer, BARC, who showed reporters round the reactor. The land-based reactor and the PWR that has been packed into Arihant’s hull are on a 1:1 scale.

When civilians are introduced to the reactor like this I guess it says a lot about the reactor's (very low) radiation level, and the confidence in our defence establishment about its operational reliability.

[rakall]

BTW this is no typo error here the Arihant's indigenous power plant is indeed ~190MWt.

Indian navy sent crew of ~300 people to Russia to get experience on running a similar sized reactors, not to learn learn Charlie class reactor that in any case ceased to exist when teh last of the Charlie was wrecked in late 1990's. They were there working on bigger power plant.

Hats off to DAE/BARC/Anil-Kakodkar for this singular achievement. Good job !!

Arun - please see NDTV video.. at 1.26sec to 1.32sec -- the presentation shows that the reactor rating is 100MWth with a containment volume of 300cubit.meters.... specifically mentions that 3cu.mt per 1MWth

unfortunately - uploading banned here Have saved screen shots of the video

[Arun_S]

What do you make of 1000MWe and 3,300MWth in the poster shown on the video?

People in the art will be able to read the 1000MWe and 3,300MWth in the video to belong to another power plant design and not the Arihant.

There are many other indicators in open source (apart from what is in this particular news/video) that converge to indicate the power plant is much bigger than 85MWe.

IMHO the reactor will turn out to be between 120 - 200 MWth and I expect the shaft power output of ~35 MWe compared to about 14 MWe for Charlie class vessel.

[rakall]

What do you make of 1000MWe and 3,300MWth in the poster shown on the video?

People in the art will be able to read the 1000MWe and 3,300MWth in the video to belong to another power plant design and not the Arihant.

.

The slide shows 1000MWe and 3,300MWth in the video - obviously belonging to the mother power plant design..

And the next slide heading says "Miniaturization of the power plant" - under that it says 100MW(th)...

But through out the narrative PBagla keeps saying 80MW & Hindu report says 80MWe..

keep speculating...

[Kanson]

with a low-powered( limitation is such that an efficiency factor of only 80% ) local built PHWR which can let the boy to speed upto 25 knots submerged.

You mean PWR ? and the rating could be even lower till it consistently proves it is reliable.

[Arun_S]

What I say is based on triangulating other pieces of info; the Arihant is definitely not powered by 85 MWth reactor, it has got to be much bigger.

TS Subramanium has in many earlier reports in HINDU has also stated the 190 MW figure, my initial skepticism was based on 10 m dia of the sub. Knowing how big the sub is and given that it needs to be able to escape hunters it clearly needs a speed much above 24 Kt (that Charlie had). Also one does not train military crew on MKI only to give them an indigenous SU-7 to fly back home.

Again my kudos to DAE/BARC.

[Kanson]

I think our fleet should be SSN=24 SSBN = 12 and Conventional no more after 6 Scorpene

It will approach the ratio of 1:1 between nuclear and non-nuclear

[Kanson]

Not sure if this can be done, but gurus can contribute.

Can a Nuclear submarine practically "recharge" the batteries of a Diesel Submarine deep underwater?

Possible.

[negi]

Wow so they actually showed the half boat on TV; even the Arihant pic was pretty neat and beautiful.Jingo khush hua

[Sanjay M]

Yup, I'm a grinnin'.


So when does Arihant do its first trip under the northern polar icecap, a la Nautilus?
Has the leased INS Chakra already done that at some point?

Where are all the cool places that N-subs can go, where all the action is?
Will Straits of Malacca become much more crowded now?
Will it be shadowing any Chinese naval exercises, like the US does?

[rakall]

Wow so they actually showed the half boat on TV; even the Arihant pic was pretty neat and beautiful.Jingo khush hua

The pic shown at 0.23sec is almost exactly like the sketches that SandeepUnnithan made and a drawing that Gagan posted (in page5 of this thread)..

[Arun_S]

Yes top speed will be ~40 Kt. And obviously the submarine hull is bigger than what was initially thought.

I estimate top speed to be between 33 and 37 Knots.

[Arun_S]

What I say is based on triangulating other pieces of info; the Arihant is definitely not powered by 85 MWth reactor, it has got to be much bigger.

TS Subramanium has in many earlier reports in HINDU has also stated the 190 MW figure, my initial skepticism was based on 10 m dia of the sub. Knowing how big the sub is and given that it needs to be able to escape hunters it clearly needs a speed much above 24 Kt (that Charlie had).

Triangulate using these datums :

• 1. 300 Indian Navy officers and men trained at Sosnovy Bor near Murmansk, the home base for the Akulas, till 2007-2008.
  2. Charlies (I & II) were non-existent after 1994 (so much for the "gaining experience factor")
  3. The necessary Indian crew for the Nerpa moved to Vladivostok in 2008.
  4. Are 300 officers and men necessary for a single submarine whose compliment is 95-100 (with significant possibility that the Nerpa will/might have a skeleton Russian presence)
  5. One does not train flying crew on a SU 30 MKI so that they may eventually fly the SU-7BM
  6. TS Subramanium's many earlier reports stating 190 MW reactor in HINDU

[John Snow]

I thought they would errect the whole mockup of the system on Jolt Squeeze table to simulate the shocks and viberation of with standing the depth charges

Great job BARC & DRDO kudos and salute to all the teams for their hard work