Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 13 Feb 2010 22:01

This is the latest that I can find:
http://www.sakaaltimes.com/SakaalTimesB ... 007518.htm

8 killed, 33 injured in Pune bakery blast

PUNE: In a suspected terror attack, eight people were killed and upto 40 injured in a bomb explosion in a popular bakery near a Jewish prayer house here in the first major strike after the 26/11 carnage in Mumbai.

The blast took place in the German Bakery, an old business establishment in the Cantonment area of the city, at around 1830 hours. The famous Osho Ashram, frequented by foreigners, is also located in the vicinity of the blast site.

US terror suspect David Headley is believed to have stayed at the Ashram during his visit to the city.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 13 Feb 2010 22:03

x-posted

My condolences to the victims and their kin.

Initial take on this issue:

1. This is almost surely an ISI/LeT operation, the prime evidence for that is the Feb 5 pigLeT rally where LeT's #2 Makkhi-choos said this:

At one time, jihadis were interested only in the liberation of Kashmir, but the water issue had ensured that “Delhi, Pune and Kanpur” were all fair targets, he said.

2. TSPA and pigLeTs have calibrated their terror output to achieve tactical politcal objectives. 26/11 was meant to guarantee a border crisis so that TSPA could escape US pressure to take on their own assets. Today, the immediate political objective is to force India to back off talks.

3. The reason for TSPA to force India to back off talks is that India's offer, although borne out of weakness, caught Kayani by surprise. Kayani had just launched a verbal offensive hihglighting the India threat, with ISI moutpieces raking up the bogus water issue along with the usual J&K stuff. If talks were to proceed, even if superficial, it would severely undercut TSPA efforts to thwart US pressure to act in N.Waziristan. Unkil can say - India is talking and offering x,y,z so why can't you move a few more brigades to FATA if not a division or two?

4. Given the limited objectives, pigLeTs and ISI could not use their own assets like in 26/11, so they likely used SIMI/IM people for this, the same people who were probably interacting with Headley/Rana and provided local support for 26/11.

5. Usually attacks by pigLeTs or their subcontractors precede a verbal volley by Hafiz-e-pig or other top leaders. Given this, we can expect follow on attacks of the same scale in Delhi, Kanpur, Hyderabad etc., all of which were mentioned in last week's rallies as targets

6. If GoI does not back off from talks now or after the immediate follow on attacks, or if the follow ons fizzle out, we can expect another 26/11 type attack originating from TSP not too long from now

7. From the current set of weaklings in New Delhi, we can expect another stellar exhibition of spinelessness. P.Chidambaram at Home may be one small exception but he is pushing against a tide of jelly spines.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 13 Feb 2010 22:12

Taliban blow up boys school in NW Pakistan

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 13 Feb 2010 22:21

A sad part is,

Maharashtra CM Chavan and HM Patil were busy providing security to people watching movies and to prince Rahul

mandrake · Post by **mandrake** » 13 Feb 2010 22:48

Gagan wrote:After having read 20 odd pages of this thread and some excellent analysis by Rangudu, CRamS, SSridhar, harbans, amit et.al. I come to the following conclusion, and if I may add to the discussion in a small way:

1. India will NEVER fight another all out war with Pakistan.
a) Cold start non withstanding, Nuclear weapons in India and Pakistan's hands, another or several 26/11s non withstanding.
b) Cold start seems to be one of the sticks that India will threaten Pakistan with, but I don't think ever enact. But the point is, that the mere presence of such a doctrine and the means to carry it out will have that calming effect on pakistan fauj all the same. In other words, India will use Cold Start every day.
c) India will never use nuclear weapons either. Perhaps not even if pakistan or its terrorists use a dirty nuclear device against India. In this regard it seems that the possession of a huge and devastating arsenal in possession of India means that any nuclear retaliation by India will mean the deaths of perhaps 10 million pakistanis, a prospect no Indian leader is willing to contemplate.
d) The reason why India will not fight an all out or even a limited war with paksitan is demonstrated by the fact that India did not go to war even during Kargil as also after 26/11 because of the same reasons - the economy.
e) Pakistan's possession of Nuclear weapons and India's interest in developing its economy and industrial base to equal and surpass China is the main reason.

2. India will instead resort to:
a) Using the good offices of the US and its War on Terror to pursue a change in the way Pakistan is run. The ultimate goal seems to be to separate the Pakistan Army from the center of Power and the running of that country.
b) India's other option is to internally destabilize that country, so that the Pakistani army comes to its knees.
c) India is willing to pay lip service to dialogue on all issues to keep pakistan engaged till such time as the fissiparous tendencies, and economic collapse within that country tear it apart. Meanwhile India along with the United States, Great Britain, Russia etc will encourage the separatist tendencies within Pakistan.
d) The aim is to squeeze Pakistan diplomatically, militarily, economically until the Pakistan Army gives up governance within that country or that country tears itself apart into smaller states.

3. These goals are the same that are sought to be achieved, except that utilizing this route:
a) The end result of a Pakistan that is stable and prosperous, but is not a challenger to India in any sphere.
b) By and large India's goals get achieved without the proverbial 'firing a single bullet'.
c) In a democracy where the parliament and the civil administration are the supreme arbiters of state power, the military will be used but as one of the tools along with several other means to achieve desired goals.

4. The downside is:
a) India will have to not only face a few more 26/11 type incidents, but Indian leaders will also have to manage public anger and restrain the tendency to lash out at Pakistan in anger.
b) The thing we need to understand and accept is that a sinking pakistan will undoubtedly lash out, India will have to grit its teeth and bear it for a while.
c) There are no guarantees that this approach will be successful. There remains the possibility that the Pakistan-China combo along with an indifferent US might push India to such a state that the one thing that it seeks to preserve - economic growth, and some level of safety and security for its citizens is threatened.
d) In such a situation, India may resort to limited military posturing, even a border skirmish, but will withdraw to the earlier policy as soon as the limited goals of any military move are achieved.

5. Bottom line:
a) This appears to be the only wholesome approach on the table, and as such its chances of success seem to be the highest as compared to a pure military or a purely diplomatic solution.
b) The end result of a defanged Pakistan is achieved without too much hardships to India or retardation of economic growth.
c) Pakistan and China seem to have realized this, and their accent is on targetting India's centers of economic and scientific growth.
d) Nothing in this approach means good news for the paksitan army, the main culprit in this entire imbroglio.

Comments and thoughts welcome.

SSridhar wrote:I think that GoI is aware of an impending attack and that was the reason for the haste with which it 'offered' talks lest it is put in an awkward position vis-a-vis internal pressure. Moreover, I also believe that the theory of some internal pressure group within the Congress (last time, after SeS, it was AK Antony, Pranab da and P.Chidambaram) that is 'opposed' to talks, is a carefully stage managed affair to wriggle out of embarrassing tight situations if anything develops like that.

Someone said something in the lines of "India is preparing itself for another set of attacks", Can't find that post right now.
As usual, BRF is always ahead of the curve!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 13 Feb 2010 23:35

Pak troops violate ceasefire along border yet again

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 14 Feb 2010 00:53

From B Raman's blog, http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r3664.html
"For the present, the US objective is limited to encouraging a resumption of Indo-Pakistan talks under whatever format suitable to both. Its medium-term objective of persuading or even pressuring India to address Pakistani views relating to Kashmir and concerns relating to Afghanistan is likely to assert itself more and more as 2011 approaches."

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Feb 2010 01:10

^^^

Pretty much confirms that Western pressure is the only reason why Pakistan is not declared a state sponsor of terror by GoI. Question is if USA continues to want the preservation of Pakistan just as it did in 1971. All indications on this front are that nothing much has changed in the intervening decades.

Also need to reconsider the accepted wisdom that Mr. Headley was a rogue agent.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Feb 2010 03:25

Question is if USA continues to want the preservation of Pakistan just as it did in 1971. All indications on this front are that nothing much has changed in the intervening decades.

Vera ji, this is exactly the point., This will go on irrespective of who's in power. India does not have military options, India does not have Aman ki Asha options with this entity called Pakistan. People think that this government is bad another with spine will make a difference. Sorry, it won't happen. Becauset he fundamentals of the problem are beyond what anyone can tackle. Make Rudra the PM, what are his options? Another Parakrama? That should have ended terror if it was successful. It did not. Why? Because the institutions behind it were never satisfactorily dismantled. Why were they not dismantled or why if they were dismantled, they were put under some charity etc. But they were not really dismantled, why? Because this Paki state wants to do with India what India should now do with them. Dismantling. We have been lulled into thinking that these people want to exist in equilibrium with us. In peace with us. Whether it's ABV or MMS or IKG or IG, ultimately all of them exuded faith in the fact that Pakistan can be a stable entity one day.

Problem here is people still think there are solutions that work. Like military ones like Parakrama or on the opposite side Aman ki Asha. Well, lets hear more solutions on how to tame this terrorist state. Speak Rudra, i'm just spouting nonsense?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Feb 2010 03:39

This does not preclude taking actions within our control. The foremost is complete abstention from any kinds of "talks" with Pakistan, because talks simply lead to more terrorist attacks in India. Talks with Pakistan are happening only to find a way to relieve pressure on the NATO forces in Afghanistan, not because they are in our interests. I don't quite understand the hangup here - has Delhi refused to relieve NATO in AFG such that they are left with no other options?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 14 Feb 2010 04:07

My heartfelt condolences to the victims and their families.

Any info on the people who were killed?
Any statement from GoI?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Feb 2010 04:10

As per Sri B. Raman, http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r3664.html

8.The military objective of Gen.Jones’ visit was to ensure that the Pakistan Army would not allow a repeat of Tora Bora and would not come in the way of a decisive US victory against the Afghan Taliban in the Marjah area. { As per B. Raman, at Tora Bora, "Pakistan allowed Al Qaeda remnants, including Osama bin Laden, to withdraw into North Waziristan and re-organise themselves from sanctuaries there." }

Well, whatever India does can perhaps wait for a few days for the "decisive victory in Marjah"

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 14 Feb 2010 04:45

PUNE'S PAST JIHADI CONNECTIONS - Raman's strategic analysis

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Feb 2010 04:49

except for some minor disagreements, excellent analysis by Vir Sanghvi. This is what needs to be conveyed to the Americans.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 14 Feb 2010 04:50

U.S. delivers 48 field artillery cannons to Pakistan Army

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 14 Feb 2010 05:18

Bottom line is that India does not have suave Public relations people who can go on CNN, CBS, FOX, NBC, ETc to tell their side of the story.

The reason is because our IAS Babus are not being trained to do the above and thus it is left to us NRIs to constantly try to put forth the India's point forward.

GOI should relaxes some rules at least about Foreign affairs office to get some good, well educated people with good communications skill for the MaatraBhumi PR.

now watch the positive spin of this latest attack in Pune in favor of the Paksitani terrorists because neither of our politicians or the foreign affairs people can put India's point across on any of the international media. We are too humble and too timid when talking to the Gora log.

condolences to the victims and advice to the alive to leave india as soon as possible as Government of India only cares about nothing and their lives and progeny is in great danger in india.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Feb 2010 06:10

Jernail Kayani to serve the nation for 2 more years

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27249

ISLAMABAD: The government has asked General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani to accept an extension in his tenure as Chief of Army Staff for another two years. The verbal offer was made to sound out General Kayani whether he would agree to or turn it down.

According to the sources, the extension in service cases of Chief of Army Staff General Kayani, Chief of General Staff Lt-Gen Muhammad Mustafa Khan, and DG ISI Lt-Gen Ahmad Shuja Pasha are ready to be sent to the prime minister and the president for approval.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Feb 2010 06:37

Bajwaji,

rest assured the next day they will be filled next day with WKKs.

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 14 Feb 2010 06:38

Hmmmm let me be clear here. The US has a population of about 300 mil. The EU has about 350 mil. So, India needs some suave PR people to explain India's position to some 650 mil population that probably watch CNN, Fox, MSNBC etc? Heyyyyyyyyy what about explaining India's position to some billion Indians first????
Thats the trouble with India. Always worried about what the Gora population might think of her. Whats up with this?
If we look at things from historical perspective, there aint no permanent solution to any gorram thing in this world. Zilch. Nada. Only thing that can be done is some time-period specific solutions. If you catch a thief and put him in jail does not mean that no more thief will be born. Thieves will be born and they must continously be caught and sentenced. There is no permanent solution like a magic wand whereby you end thievery forever. Same is the case with Paki sponsored terrorism against India.
There are many troubles with India. One of it is hoping on others to help solve India's problems. In case of terrorism, India hopes on the US and some EU states. Interms of weaponry I saw the glee celebrating the Pak-Fa flight. What is this habit of riding on others' coat-tails?

Nothing will come out of this. India wants to expand anti-terrorism cooperation with Russia. India can organize international seminalrs and world wide conferences on terrorosm till kingdom come but zilch will come out of it except useless words like "India is a democracy"..."our sympathies are with India"..."we strongly condemn this act of terrorism"...."we strongly ask the govt of Pakistan to bring to justice these perpetrators" from the so-called friends of democracy in the west. After the presentations and talks, all the participants would have enjoyed helfy lobster and Chilean bass meals at some five star hotel and then everyone would go back to their homes satisfied that they have contributed in the fight against terrorism. Guess what? That would do zilch to stop Pak-Nazis and Muslo-Fascists from killing Hindus.

As long as India takes 20 years to buy fighter planes for the airforce, 25 years to induct subs into the navy and supply shoddy weaponry to her soldiers, there will never be a military solution either short term or medium term. And Pak-Nazis will continue with their shennanigans. Imagine what 126 to 200 extra fighter bombers in the arsenal would have done after 26/11? Still wanna wait another 10 yrs for the MRCA?

There is cowardice or negligence in the leadership. Not much discussion on this except in roundabout ways. And I think there is another element in the leadership that is being left out in discussion. There has to be a pro-Pak lobby within India leadership. This shadowy lobby could be the result of coercion or bribery or both. With so much corruption and the wide-spread labyrinth of the underworld network, I will not be surprised at all.

If India does not let the world know that there is a certain line that must not be crossed, Indians will continue to die. Right now, even the leaders appeared to be clueless as to what or where this sacred line is.
Avram

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Feb 2010 06:46

A_Gupta wrote: In your assessment, does Pakistan have more freedom of action - more viable alternatives - today as compared to ten years ago?

No. Pakistan has fewer options and wrt to India all they can do is encourage terror and behave in a generally recalcitrant manner. One of the things that struck me while I was researching material for the e book was that India and Pakistan are involved in a slow-motion development race in which India is putting in a lot more effort because of its size and is actually inching ahead of Pakistan. India has successfully educated, employed, vaccinated, treated and built houses for many Pakistans worth of people leading to a situation in which Indian development stats are marginally better than Pakistan's in most indicators.

This is less of a cause for shame than is generally made out because India, for example needs to educate 10 million people to improve literacy by 1%, while Pakistan need to educate only 160 thousand to do the same. If Pakistan educated 1 million it would achieve a 5% jump in literacy. But Pak figures have fallen behind Indian figures meaning that they are unable to reach even that lower target. This actually suits the Paki establishment because (like many other countries of the world, past and present) human suffering in the population does not affect the elite and the government and in fact aids them in supplying manpower for a feudal lifestyle or a lifestyle of conquest and war.

Conquest and war are not on the agenda for India and feudal lifestyle are being eliminated. To answer a question I posed to others many pages ago I believe that the GoI tends to see terrorism in India as a minor price to pay for the cause of development because the stated aim for India is development and removal of poverty, For the GoI, even 2000 terrorist deaths a year are technically less of a "problem" than millions of malnutrition and epidemic disease related deaths.

Even so, the GoI consists of many of the elite and can be pressurized by the elite. It was elite pressure that made the "nationalistic" BJP government buckle after IC 814 and Op Parakram. It was again elite pressure after Mumbai 26/11 that made the Kaangerss governmen appear more firm than the BJP at least for a while. The elite supported any anti-terrorist action by the Kaangress but opposed the BJP based on whether they were at the receiving end or not. (The elite of India is us and our relatives and social peers) But none of this takes away the fact that trying to stop terror by hitting Pakistan militarily is high on the elite emotions list while it is low on the GoI development priority list. Education, subsidized fuel and rice and Pulse Polio programs are high on the GoI priority list and low on the elite list who see the latter actions as "populist, vote bank actions"

India is seen as an ocean of international stability in the region because it is not making war. Is this a mistake? My answer is a qualified yes - but it is my well fed elite mind that tells me this. I will leave that for another post, but the reason for writing all this is that India's actions have less to do with Pakistan and more to do with India and what are considered Indian national priorities.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 Feb 2010 07:13

Shiv,
So true. War will be devastating for India. Till we can improve our HDI, we are better off avoiding war to assuage our egos

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Feb 2010 07:46

Let me do an India-Pak equal equal - but I do it in all seriousness.

In general it can be assumed that the elite of any country will work for themselves and their own advantage. The very existence of an elite suggests the presence of social inequity. A mass of poor and deprived people are always useful for the elite in any country to do the donkey work that needs to be done, but beyond a point deprivation leads to revolution. The more successful and popular systems of government have generally tended to minimize the exploitation of the elite by the non elite, but it still occurs even in developed societies.

In Pakistan there has been virtually no attempt to actively cater to the non elite. the elite rule supreme in power and wealth. India has taken the quasi-socialist route of trying to cater to the non elite. Indian democracy has attempted to elect the non elite into political power by means of the Lok Sabha. And because "quarrelsome dhoti and topi clad dehatis" occupy the Lok Sabha the Indian elite generally feel disdain for the elected representatives. But 60 years of this have converted a large part of the Lok Sabha into the new elite. And that makes the Lok Sabha (and therefore the GoI) remain somewhat susceptible to elite pressure, although government is not totally elite controlled in India.

This IMO reflects in the way the GoI responds to war and terror. The GoI responds to war because there is no other go. Terror on the other hand evokes an elite-non elite "caste system" of responses. To repeat myself - no amount of terror in Kashmir, Guwahati, Ayodhya or Lucknow or Delhi markets made much of a dent on the Indian consciousness. The parliament attack caused a sense of satisfaction among the elite who wanted our dhotis asses kicked. "I wish the terrorists had got a couple of politicians" was a common reaction. Op Parakram would affect Infosys and WIPRO so no war. On the other hand IC 814 was the elite and they needed to be saved.

Mumbai blasts in 1993 and 2006 had non elite victims and did not capture the elites' consciousness. But 26/11 did. A governmental non response to 1993 and 2006 was no problem, but the GoI had to be seen to respond to 26/11

The long and short of it is that the GoI has escaped pressure from taking strong action against Pakistan as long as terrorism affects the non elite. This mirrors the situation in Pakistan where an elite controlled government is not affected by non elite travails.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Feb 2010 08:11

Let's recall what P.Chidambaram said on the eve of the anniversary of 26/11.

“If terrorists and militants from Pakistan try to carry out any attack in India, they will not only be defeated but will be retaliated very strongly,” the Home Minister said at a public meeting in Madurai

We still do not know if Pune was indeed a Pakistani-sponsored terror attack. Let's see what happens if it was indeed so.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Feb 2010 08:26

SBajwa wrote:Now watch the positive spin of this latest attack in Pune in favor of the Paksitani terrorists because neither of our politicians or the foreign affairs people can put India's point across on any of the international media.

Why blame others ? Just wait for a day or two. If the bomb blast is confirmed to have had a Pakistani link, we can expect the analysts to start saying how the terrorists in a last-ditch desperate effort to stop the Indo-Pak talks have done this latest terror act. They will say now India should show the determination and go ahead with the talks that will expose the bluff of the terrorists. They will proclaim that we will send a strong message to the terrorists that we will not be cowed down by their actions. They will also say that having agreed at SeS to de-link terrorism from dialogue, we should regain the moral high ground as Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism. Some will suggest that the prolonged no-dialogue period has taken its toll now.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 14 Feb 2010 08:35

SSridhar wrote: Why blame others ? Just wait for a day or two. If the bomb blast is confirmed to have had a Pakistani link, we can expect the analysts to start saying how the terrorists in a last-ditch desperate effort to stop the Indo-Pak talks have done this latest terror act. They will say now India should show the determination and go ahead with the talks that will expose the bluff of the terrorists. They will proclaim that we will send a strong message to the terrorists that we will not be cowed down by their actions. They will also say that having agreed at SeS to de-link terrorism from dialogue, we should regain the moral high ground as Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism. Some will suggest that the prolonged no-dialogue period has taken its toll now.

Why wait for a day or two when Siddharth Varadarajan is alive?

http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/14/stories ... 240800.htm

Though the opposition will try and corner the government for trying to meet its goal of ending terrorism from across the border through both a focussed dialogue and renewed emphasis on homeland security, the Pune bomb blast has underlined the importance of staying the course. And one of the first issues India will have to raise with the Pakistani Foreign Secretary is the need for Makki to be arrested and interrogated for his ‘prescient’ statement about Pune. The fact that terrorist groups like the Lashkar-e-Taiba don’t want India and Pakistan to talk is a good reason to question the logic of not talking. Talks do not represent an easing of pressure on Pakistan to crack down on the LeT/JuD. Indeed, that they are likely to be a more effective instrument for pressing one’s demands is precisely why terrorist organisations are so keen to ensure the proposed dialogue never takes off.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 14 Feb 2010 08:46

Why wait for a day or two when Siddharth Varadarajan is alive?

He is a US citizen articulating a position that advances the strategic goals of his country.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Feb 2010 08:52

Abhishek_sharma, thanks. That was very quick indeed from Sidharth Varadarajan. Aren't we able to predict the terrorists, GoI, analysts and the WKKs very easily ?

Somebody here said that GoI should talk to the terrorists and the very next day Prof. Hafeez Saeed said that India & Pakistan should talk to him. Someone said here in jest and sarcasm that if talks are resumed. then GoI will have an instrument in its hand to retaliate if there was another terror attack. The very next day, we have the same views echoed by GoI officials. The jokers are becoming too easy to predict.

Let's see what is the next prediction and how quickly it comes true.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 14 Feb 2010 08:55

asprinzl wrote: There is cowardice or negligence in the leadership. Not much discussion on this except in roundabout ways. And I think there is another element in the leadership that is being left out in discussion. There has to be a pro-Pak lobby within India leadership. This shadowy lobby could be the result of coercion or bribery or both. With so much corruption and the wide-spread labyrinth of the underworld network, I will not be surprised at all.

+1. What will Sharad Pawar do if Dawood starts talking?

The cure has to start with verifiable voting mechanisms.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Feb 2010 09:06

Important and interesting article in HT. http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1
....And a counterpoint to the article (in HT again) http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1
After initial reading, I think HT has done a good job. But dont know if it is snake oil salesmanship/WKK-ism/PsyOps or the Real deal. If it is true, I hope MMS remembers Ambedkar's wise words.

Anybody have anything to say about Pramit Pal Chaudhuri?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 14 Feb 2010 09:14

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -320-za-01

Musharraf was guilty of many sins, including the Himalayan blunder of launching the infamous Kargil adventure, but he did genuinely try to achieve peace with India. When he claimed that the two countries were close to an end to the conflict as the result of back channel diplomacy, he was not far wrong.

Qureshi has debunked this claim, saying the Foreign Office has no records to support it. However, I have been talking to Musharraf’s adviser who was deeply involved in these secret talks over the years, and he has kept me in touch with their broad contours. He has also told me that both foreign offices were kept out of the loop, and no formal record was kept.

So the PM's office kept the External Affairs Ministry out of the loop?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Feb 2010 09:20

abhishek_sharma wrote:http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -320-za-01

So the PM's office kept the External Affairs Ministry out of the loop?

Musharraf's adviser says that Indian FO was kept out of loop by Indian PMO? I believe that.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Feb 2010 10:34

SSridhar wrote:Let's recall what P.Chidambaram said on the eve of the anniversary of 26/11.

“If terrorists and militants from Pakistan try to carry out any attack in India, they will not only be defeated but will be retaliated very strongly,” the Home Minister said at a public meeting in Madurai
We still do not know if Pune was indeed a Pakistani-sponsored terror attack. Let's see what happens if it was indeed so.

You still doubt it? If you still do, then please read

http://sify.com/news/headley-had-survey ... degag.html

Home Secretary G.K. Pillai on Saturday night said suspected Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) terrorist David Coleman Headley had surveyed the Osho ashram area, which is 200 yards from the German Bakery where a blast killed eight people and injured 40 people on Saturday evening.

archan · Post by **archan** » 14 Feb 2010 11:13

krishnan, that is a cause for suspicion, not a proof. Things such as recorded conversations, confessions etc. are different.
However, that is not to say that SS or I need to be convinced about paki involvement. We all know where 100% of world's terrorism originates from.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Feb 2010 12:30

Anujan wrote:Important and interesting article in HT. http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1

It is good to finally see the assumptions that the Prime Minister is working with. Since most of them are wishful thinking - at best - this peace overture while neglecting internal security is purely a quest for personal glory. It beats me how one can assume that the economic properity of India can be assured in 5-6 years when, for instance, infant mortality in Delhi doesn't budge for 10 years. Or how seeing India as a 1st tier world power is more important than ensuring the welfare of the citizens - I mean do any of you spend time obsessing about how the country is a 2nd tier power?

On the bright side, the Left / Garibi Hatao planks are now available to be appropriated by the right political dispensation.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Feb 2010 12:30

Apparently an unexploded bum has been recovered. If so, its good.
Details still sketchy.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 14 Feb 2010 12:57

CNN-IBN: Govt had factored in the possibility of terrorist attacks before offering talks.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 14 Feb 2010 12:59

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 14 Feb 2010 13:00

So talks would go on.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 14 Feb 2010 13:13

why would'nt they? otherwise terrorists win. We need to overcome terrorism and have candid discussions and resolve all outstanding issues peacefully and amicably. We should not allow terror take peace between India and Pakistan as hostage.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 14 Feb 2010 13:24

3 killed, 15 injured in blast in Pak's Sindh province