INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 04 Jun 2010 21:21

^ Nope definitely nothing like Akula , Akula has a distinctive center plate above the nose for loading counter measures , it also has counter measure dispensers above the torpedo tubes all over the nose cone . None of these are visible in Aroor's pic , more importantly Akula's nose cone is huge it has additional 4*650mm torpedo tubes apart from the standard 4*533 ones.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/akula_class.jpg

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 04 Jun 2010 21:57

to me Akula is the prettiest looking SSN design till date. flowing combo of form and function like a luxury car.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby bhavani » 04 Jun 2010 23:12

Singha wrote:to me Akula is the prettiest looking SSN design till date. flowing combo of form and function like a luxury car.


Akula is a very good design, they should have removed the last remaining drain holes from the design. i hope our Arihant has no drain holes.

Arihant has the looks of a pretty big sub. Is the quoted weight of 6000 tons surfaced or submerged? Going by the size of it this baby should weight any where between 7000 - 9000 tons submerged.

I would be really surprised if this baby weighs more than 9000 tons.

A victor III with a length of 102 m and beam of 10 m and draft 7 m weighs 7000 surfaced. If the quoted dimensions of Arihant are correct at 115 m length and 15 m beam and draft 15 m are correct then this baby must be more than 8000 tons easy.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby aditya.agd » 05 Jun 2010 00:22

Has arihant fired any missile until now???? Until it fires any missile against a land based target, Arihant remains and Technology demonstrator vehicle only ...

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby nikhil_p » 05 Jun 2010 01:31

aditya.agd wrote:Has arihant fired any missile until now???? Until it fires any missile against a land based target, Arihant remains and Technology demonstrator vehicle only ...


Oh!!! so the Kilo class is a TD Submarine!! and the venerable Los Angeles class (block1) was also a TD!!!

Forgive the sarcasm, but a submarine is originally meant to be undectectable...missile firing is also possible from a pontoon.

To put it simply, first you test the submarine for its basics and then you design a missile which can fit into the tube!

:) :)
Last edited by nikhil_p on 05 Jun 2010 01:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby putnanja » 05 Jun 2010 01:32

I think aditya.agd is a newbie.

aditya, please post your thoughts in the newbie thread instead of posting random stuff here and derailing threads

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 05 Jun 2010 06:22

when IFF reports unidentified, we shall release AAMs. thats a brf rule. so what if a innocent new Cessna or Citation. tough.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ShauryaT » 05 Jun 2010 09:00

I am new to this, but how feasible is it to have the size, it has, from the one photo published/sneaked? and yet, still have the weight of 6000 Tons, using composite materials, on the lines of the LCA?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Willy » 05 Jun 2010 09:26

Kanson wrote:
sgopal wrote:Is'nt Arihant's sonar spherical?


I guess, the current Arihant nose cone is based on Akula, so whatever Sonar Akula supports can be expected in Arihant. This is for current Arihant only.



Sonar will most probably be Indian or French..............?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby vic » 05 Jun 2010 10:51

tsarkar wrote:Gagan,

Geeth,

My understanding is there are four 2 meter diameter tubes in a single row.

Reasons being the three submarines are essentially technology demonstrators with each successive submarine incorporating lessons learnt.

The design and constituent subsystems isn’t operationally proven and single row offers better ship handling and easier to design, rather than two rows with consequent handling and ballasting issues when larger 2 meter diameter missiles are fired.



If the sub is wide enough then it mean single row 1x4 tubes will naturally increase to 3x4=12 tubes without much ado!

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Amitabh » 05 Jun 2010 11:04

Singha wrote:yuk yuk yankee class http://perch-base.org/Glossary/Graphics ... marine.jpg

I think its most similar to yankee class among RuN subs.

in rough LOOKS only ofcourse and a better shaping on exterior.

Interesting you are making the Yankee comparison Singhaji; you were much more sceptical when the idea was first suggested. :D

Anyway we will eventually see for ourselves when the high-and-mighty decide we are ready for a proper viewing!

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby dinesha » 05 Jun 2010 12:31

Below is the Arihant's pic of front section published few months back by Sandeep Unnithan.
This pic as well as the one released at UPA-II report card clearly shows flat surface in front of the conning tower...
it further shows that the hull upto the conning tower having the horizental profile...
from the UPA-II pic one can make out that the gradual "hump" starts at quite a distance beyond the conning tower..

Image Image Image

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby prahaar » 05 Jun 2010 15:00

Dinesha, in the above pictures of Arihant, do the wedges/slits on the sides represent flood holes or something else?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Austin » 05 Jun 2010 16:48

A bit dated but still interesting Office of Naval Intelligence Chart on submarine radiated noise released in 1997 . The NSSN ( Virginia ) and Yasen did not existed (and still does not ) so its probably a best guess intelligence.

Image

And just to compare the latest ONI estimates recently released , Although it just compares Russian and Chinese subs

Image

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 05 Jun 2010 17:08

so the Akula2 we are getting is really a quiet vessel if the chart be true.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Marut » 05 Jun 2010 17:37

Willy wrote:
Kanson wrote:I guess, the current Arihant nose cone is based on Akula, so whatever Sonar Akula supports can be expected in Arihant. This is for current Arihant only.



Sonar will most probably be Indian or French..............?


It will be the India developed USHUS or some variant of it.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Gagan » 05 Jun 2010 18:28

The USHUS is supposedly specially customized to tropical waters, and is supposed to give a much higher performance than comparable sonars. I remember a IN officer commenting that the DRDO USHUS is superior to the Ohio class sub's sonar.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 05 Jun 2010 19:08

Although dated (1975) - I found the following link (about 2 1/2 pages) a great way to inform an ignoramus like myself about detection of submarines.

kelik

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby SNaik » 06 Jun 2010 02:49

Gagan wrote:The USHUS is supposedly specially customized to tropical waters, and is supposed to give a much higher performance than comparable sonars. I remember a IN officer commenting that the DRDO USHUS is superior to the Ohio class sub's sonar.


Any IN officer coming closer than a mile to operating an Ohio sonar?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby ShauryaT » 06 Jun 2010 04:59

ShauryaT wrote:I am new to this, but how feasible is it to have the size, it has, from the one photo published/sneaked? and yet, still have the weight of 6000 Tons, using composite materials, on the lines of the LCA?

Someone can at least tell me that the question is stupid. :mrgreen:

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 06 Jun 2010 07:11

SNaik wrote:
Gagan wrote:The USHUS is supposedly specially customized to tropical waters, and is supposed to give a much higher performance than comparable sonars. I remember a IN officer commenting that the DRDO USHUS is superior to the Ohio class sub's sonar.


Any IN officer coming closer than a mile to operating an Ohio sonar?


Americanitis.

When the US says it is best, nobody must question it. Nobody asks if USN officer can come within a mile of the Indian sonar. When an Indian says it we get fractal recursivity in the language that asks almost contemptuously if an SDRE can come anywhere close to fondling the great gori's humps.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Gagan » 06 Jun 2010 08:32

SNaik wrote:
Gagan wrote:The USHUS is supposedly specially customized to tropical waters, and is supposed to give a much higher performance than comparable sonars. I remember a IN officer commenting that the DRDO USHUS is superior to the Ohio class sub's sonar.


Any IN officer coming closer than a mile to operating an Ohio sonar?

I know how it sounds, but I've actually read this. I'll post a link when I can find it.
PS: One line I write here, and google search keeps throwing it up! This google is khatarnaak I tell you.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 06 Jun 2010 08:38

^ It is nice to raise above point for the sake of argument but given the kind of money and resources US pools in defense R&D and the sheer experience in designing , manufacturing and operating nuclear submarines gives them an obvious edge in this area. Btw the OHIO class submarine is larger than Arihant and unlike the latter it does not have to share its fore section for torpedo tubes and one more thing Arihant is a double hull so the actual volume available for sonar must be even less than what one might think.So even if USHUS is based on same technology as that of Ohios's sonar it won't have the luxury of fielding a transducer array of same size as that on Ohio.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Misraji » 06 Jun 2010 08:42

I think SNaik's point is pretty valid.
Ohio and Arihant would both be using sonar passively.

It would be interesting to see how the IN officer could gauge the performance of Ohio's sonar
either generally or in a passive mode.

~Ashish.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 06 Jun 2010 08:58

negi wrote:^ It is nice to raise above point for the sake of argument but given the kind of money and resources US pools in defense R&D and the sheer experience in designing , manufacturing and operating nuclear submarines gives them an obvious edge in this area. Btw the OHIO class submarine is larger than Arihant and unlike the latter it does not have to share its fore section for torpedo tubes and one more thing Arihant is a double hull so the actual volume available for sonar must be even less than what one might think.So even if USHUS is based on same technology as that of Ohios's sonar it won't have the luxury of fielding a transducer array of same size as that on Ohio.


Well the kind of money and resources that the US pours into its military was supposed to ensure certain victory in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Unless there is an open third party comparison of Ohio and Arihant sonar, the amount of money spent by the US is not proof that one is better than the other. By the level of salaries paid to Americans, all Americans are better than Indians.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 06 Jun 2010 09:12

Shiv ji I am amused with the kind of arguments you are making did I anywhere say that Ohio would always come on top in a hypothetical face off with Arihant ?

i.e technological or platform superiority does not guarantee success , so your point about American debacle in Afghanistan or Vietnam does not make sense, likewise what do you make of IPKF and its campaign against the LTTE in SL ? should we like Pakis make fun of IA and its capabilities based on casualties we suffered in SL ?

Ohio's have been in water for more than two decades and have received several upgrades to their Sonar suite . How long has Arihant been in the waters ? Does its nose size and the fact that a significant part of its is reserved for torpedo tubes allow space for a transducer array which can remotely match the size of the transducer array on board a SSBN which is almost twice as big as the Arihant ?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 06 Jun 2010 09:30

negi wrote:Shiv ji I am amused with the kind of arguments you are making did I anywhere say that Ohio would always come on top in a hypothetical face off with Arihant ?

i.e technological or platform superiority does not guarantee success , so your point about American debacle in Afghanistan or Vietnam does not make sense, likewise what do you make of IPKF and its campaign against the LTTE in SL ? should we like Pakis make fun of IA and its capabilities based on casualties we suffered in SL ?

Ohio's have been in water for more than two decades and have received several upgrades to their Sonar suite . How long has Arihant been in the waters ? Does its nose size and the fact that a significant part of its is reserved for torpedo tubes allow space for a transducer array which can remotely match the size of the transducer array on board a SSBN which is almost twice as big as the Arihant ?



Saar I am equally amused by your arguments.

The amount of money spent is not an argument, and you seem to have removed that argument from your post. Thank you.

You have no more information that I do. You are making an inference about relative capability and your inference may be wrong. If you have any problems with this statement please state them.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby uddu » 06 Jun 2010 09:40

Story: One of the Ohio class entered the Indian Ocean waiting for the Chinese to launch a nuclear attack on the U.S and as a retaliatory platform against China. One of the Indian Kilo (INS Sindhughosh) in the area was able to detect the U.S sub. The U.S sub was stalked until it left the IO. The officer was surprised at USHUS how the USHUS sonar was able to detect the U.S sub and how the U.S was unable to detect the KIlo in passive mode.
Then on an interview to a news channel he bragged abt the USHUS sonar being superior. The U.S Navint guys are now really pissed off. They want to know more abt USHUS.
Interval.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby uddu » 06 Jun 2010 09:48

Some news reports of USHUS after searching using the Khatarnak Google.
New Sonar system to boost Navy’s warfare capability
John L. Paul
Link
KOCHI: The Kochi-based Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL) is working on developing Sonar (Sound Navigation and Ranging) systems, which are lighter, compact and superior in performance, to boost the maritime warfare capability of the Navy’s ships and submarines. Scientists here are conducting research on developing micro electro-mechanical systems (MEMS)-based sensors to improve underwater surveillance capability of the vessels.

The compact Sonar thus produced will fit more easily in submarines and ships. The latest in its inventory is a new generation Sonar — Humsa-NG for use in warships.

The cost of manufacturing Sonar systems is Rs.20 crore to Rs.60 crore for each unit.

The Navy stepped up research in anti-submarine warfare after INS Khukri, an Indian warship, was lost to a Pakistani submarine in the1971 war.

The Pakistan Navy has a formidable submarine capability and the Chinese Navy operates nuclear-powered submarines, which India is yet to acquire. The NPOL is the sole Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) laboratory in the State. “We are the only agency in the country with core competence in Sonar technology,” said director S. Anantha Narayanan, who was project director of ‘Panchendriya,’ the first indigenously-developed Sonar system for submarines.

Recently, the agency developed the Ushus Sonar for use in submarines and this won the AGNI Award for self-reliance from the Prime Minister in May last. This Sonar is considered to be a versatile system to detect submarines and ships and is comparable to the best in the world.

Helicopter Sonars

Opening another chapter in its 56-year history (NPOL is older than the DRDO), the laboratory is working on inducting Sonars in helicopters.

“When this is done, we can meet even the air-borne requirements of the Navy, thus fulfilling our three-dimensional role,” Mr. Narayanan said. Associate director (Sonar systems) of the laboratory, R. Kanakarajan, said scientists and officials of the laboratory often worked in harsh environments on board submarines for weeks together, in close interaction with Navy personnel — the end users of Sonar systems. “For us, each project is a challenge”.

Public sector agencies such as Bharat Electronics, HAL, Keltron and some prominent private firms are involved in the development of advanced Sonar systems, so that the products are ready in lesser time

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 06 Jun 2010 10:33

shiv wrote:The amount of money spent is not an argument, and you seem to have removed that argument from your post. Thank you.

No amount of money is a data point and unlike piskolology like Americanitis and such it is definitely relevant to the topic being discussed. I did not emphasize on it as I can very well support my case without harping on it.

You have no more information that I do. You are making an inference about relative capability and your inference may be wrong. If you have any problems with this statement please state them.

Ohio is more than 2.5 times larger than the Arihant
It has a higher draft as well as beam than Arihant
It is a single hull design
It does not have to spare room for torpedo tubes in the nose unlike Arihant
Ohio class has been in waters since 1970's
Captain Paulraj a key player in developing Indigenous SONAR technology now resides in USA. (That is the kind of intellect their academia attracts )

Above all are irrefutable FACTS.

If this discussion is all about seeing and believing then one can might as well digress to a level saying that Tejas flies faster than a SR-71 and no one would be able to question it as no one has seen them flying side by side.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 06 Jun 2010 10:42

negi wrote:If this discussion is all about seeing and believing then one can might as well digress to a level saying that Tejas flies faster than a SR-71 and no one would be able to question it as no one has seen them flying side by side.


Saar - you are doing nothing to prove or disprove that something about Indian sonar may be better than the Ohio class that you are trying to support by every indirect argument that you can muster.

How are you able to tell that Indians do not have more experience than the Americans with sonar in the muddy waters of the Indian Ocean? It is possible, but not provable. But you insist on trying to highlight the opposite view by harping on money, size, piskology and the American way. You are only adding to the point I have been trying to make - i.e that for Indians, the Americans do not have to do much - many Indians are there who will go out of their way to prove that America is superior in any way that anyone can name.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby negi » 06 Jun 2010 10:52

negi wrote:Saar - you are doing nothing to prove or disprove that something about Indian sonar may be better than the Ohio class that you are trying to support by every indirect argument that you can muster.

Was this even about the Indian Sonar ? Last I checked you merely glossed over Snaik's comment with a refernce to Americanitis .

How are you able to tell that Indians do not have more experience than the Americans with sonar in the muddy waters of the Indian Ocean?

Experience ? American subs have been globe trotting for all these years , that news snippet quoted by Uddu again goes to show they have their eyes even in the Indian ocean compared to that how many IN Kilos/Foxtrots or U-209s have been to the Pacific ?

It is possible, but not provable.
I knew it was gonna come to this , but then where did I say that Ohio's SONAR is superior to the one on Arihant ? :mrgreen:

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby shiv » 06 Jun 2010 11:09

negi wrote:
It is possible, but not provable.
I knew it was gonna come to this , but then where did I say that Ohio's SONAR is superior to the one on Arihant ? :mrgreen:


Your very first reaction:
It is nice to raise above point for the sake of argument but given the kind of money and resources US pools in defense R&D and the sheer experience in designing , manufacturing and operating nuclear submarines gives them an obvious edge in this area.


US scores in money, experience and has an obvious edge in "this area". That was your reaction to the post linked below
viewtopic.php?p=883264#p883264

That post is a comparison of Indian and US sonar. If you can clearly disown your statement and state that by "this area" you did not mean sonar but meant something else - like "Aircraft Carriers" i will be in a better position to understand your vigorous defence of all that is American.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2010 12:00

looking at how nasa cannot make a screwdriver without a billion $ budget and costly project failures and the record of the JASSM that looked like a obvious shoo-in given the decades of experience with cruise missiles and proven turbofan engine, makes me think ultimately american money pit is not a sure fire guarantor of success. other things like ambitiousness of goals, project management, political support and urgent need also kick in. eg. things may be available on the shelf but unable to deploy as product in a fleet of units due to funding priorities.

one cannot conclude anything good or bad about ohio sonar vs arihant sonar based on a few think tank/pentagon slides. as pakistan has shown, even on small budget and national will, "great peaks can be conquered" - the country that makes the habib sitara also manufactures bums that can blow apart washington and nyc. I would not underestimate anyone.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 06 Jun 2010 13:11

One noob pooch onlee:

Since the Arihant is a TD onlee and there are "Confirmed reports" of 2 more of the same class already in construction, does it mean that the entire set of 3 initial SSBNs are TDs ( since we are not waiting for results of the 1st one before starting work on the other 2)?

Also, the very first article on the Arihant in India today when the ATV was made known to the world the first time talked about a set of 3 indigenous SSBNs and 6 SSNs by 2020 to protect them. Any clue as to whether any work is ongoing on the SSNs since we should be seeing the 3 SSBNs in IN colors within 4-5 years max?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2010 13:12

the US response to arihant class induction will follow the same tiresome template pattern defined by the state dept. someone could even call it a N-step cycle.

[a] "leaks" will be made to NYT/WP that Arihant was tracked at silent underwater speed of 25 knots by a seawolf submarine during sea trials
in middle of indian ocean (even if its really 15 knots). "it repesents a quantum leapfrog over chinese capabilities and the maturity of the
indian covert technology transfer programs" . reference will made to distinguished academicians who contribued to the SSN program.

[b] a couple of desi businessmen exporting pink victoria's secret thongs to india will be hauled up under export control acts "after a
prolonged 10 month FBI probe involving 400 agents nationwide" and accused of being tech transfer fronts to export classified dual use
tech because the dupont fibres uses in the said garments are used in submarine machinery noise isolation rafts also.

[c] NYT/WP op-eds will bray and mewl about need to tighten export control to all indian entities deemed indulging in defence and dual use
techlogies, including the makers of zandu balm and pan parag.

[d] indic subalterns residing in think tanks and "institutes of disarmament/social justice/third world studies" will be kicked awake
and asked to write studies and op-eds denouncing the indian nuclear and missile program.

[e] their gora overlords in the arms control "wonk"(wanker) community will go to congressional hearings and say how urgent it is to CRE
(cap rollback elimiate) indian missile programs given this launch platform "which could lurk unseen off the eastern seaboard"

[f] pentagon in "leaked" briefings to the congressional budget committee will seek $200b for a NSSN mk2 program and a new generation
of sonars to detect these next gen emerging threats.

[g] the indian foreign minister will reiterate our no-first-use policy and our humble goals of 5000km range onree

[h] A3-SL is launched from underwater pontoon a couple times, followed by a submerged launch from Arihant and her sister ship Agnipankh.
the footage is recorded in glorious detail by a indian express blogger from a survey and appears that evening with no captions just a one like
type tweet

[i] BR goes into a collective orgasmic frenzy. calls for "br meets" all over the place to discuss this. old baiters hug and make up.

[j] pakistan announces it shall give a befitting reply and tests a DF21 and a Babur2 the next week.

life goes on...

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2010 13:15

sum saar, one hears the 3 arihant class expected to be all done by 2015. the serious game will begin then perhaps with parallel construction of a proper SSBN and a dedicated SSN. watch for doubling and tripling of the vizag submarine construction yards and how the sub base in rambilly shapes up (me thinks its going be under the mountain)

we might just decide to stick with the scorpene line and double its construction rate using a pvt yard than attempt to absorb yet another SSK line from HDW/Rubin which is the only other options. there are hundreds of suppliers for such vessels and much less of a headache to manage one set of people and no prolonged tendering process to increase numbers of a existing contract...just exercise the "options"

the battle has just began.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeiBE8QPAlo
Last edited by Singha on 06 Jun 2010 13:23, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby sum » 06 Jun 2010 13:26

sum saar, one hears the 3 arihant class expected to be all done by 2015. the serious game will begin then perhaps with parallel construction of a proper SSBN and a dedicated SSN. watch for doubling and tripling of the vizag submarine construction yards and how the sub base in rambilly shapes up (me thinks its going be under the mountain)

Singha-ji,
Thats why i was wondering as to how there is not even a peep/leak/rumor about any Indian SSN project even being in the works considering we are talking 5-6 SSNs required by 2020?

Am thinking that the Scorpene deal has some Rubin type backdoor deal also thrown in( Bharat Karnad in his book talks about some sensitive technologies being part of the Scorpene deal which arent publicized and im thinking if its N-related) else cant see a SSN coming out of nowhere by 2020...

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Gagan » 06 Jun 2010 14:15

India seems to have a penchant for calling everything a TD.

Now Arihant is a TD,
Agni was supposed to be a TD
India's TN is a TD

Yes the current N sub called Arihant is a TD, but when it finishes its trials it will be a full fledged battle ready N-sub will N tipped missiles.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2010 16:03

its part of our culture to be apologetic and shy about display of naked power (only some goonda politicians get past that dharmic niggle).
we are not shy about display of raw nakedness as the people doing their thing openly in the bushes will attest, but raw power - no no.

so calling a bum as "recessed bare minimum deterrence" as if its just meant to keep us alive hanging by the fingernails from a cliff.

there is never any talk of overkill/overmatch, always "minimal response" to any new threat.

Sum, the SSN/SSBN project will likely be done in vizag itself. looking at arihant those guys kept it close to chest for many years, so its
unlikely there will be any overt info except google earth reporting new construction.

its easier for india to stick to the Arihants reactor section and power plant, which means a big SSN of the 688 mould than a small
sdre rubis/trafalgar SSN.


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