Managing Chinese Threat

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RajeshA
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by RajeshA »

Published on Oct 06, 2010
By Peter J Brown
Russia along for a Chinese ride: Asia Times Online
India, for one, has to be discomforted by Russia's closeness to China during this entire episode. However, for India, this is an opportunity at the same time to underscore its own fragile position with respect to its boundary disputes with China.

India has wanted the world to pay far more attention to China's "string of pearls" port development strategy in the Indian Ocean region anyway, and in September, China provided India with a new and important way to buttress its defensive capabilities on a much vaster scale. This is not to say that a new regional defensive plan is in place, but rather that the conditions for such a plan have improved immensely as far as Japan and India are concerned.

Consider the matter of the Japanese spy satellite that failed earlier this summer, for example. This was noteworthy only to a select audience in the space community, or so it seemed. Indeed, the Chinese must have taken a good deal of comfort in the rapid reduction in the size of Japan's fleet of surveillance satellites.

Although US satellite surveillance of China is intense and growing, India can now use Japan's space surveillance gap to India's advantage. And why not garner support for the creation of a much more tightly coordinated and shared surveillance network aimed at China, if one does not already exist involving India and Japan?

India's decision last month to relocate nuclear-armed Su-30MKI fighters to a base just a short hop from the Sino-Indian border demonstrates that India and Japan are both under increasing pressure as China's military buildup and movements along its borders increase in tempo and visibility.
The US does not emerge as a big winner here despite the shared opinions of many commentators to this effect. The US is not prepared to provide the essential glue for a consolidated military alliance between Japan and India. Any US attempts to rush this process will yield an incoherent US foreign policy in South Asia in particular which could trigger an embarrassing and enormous calamity.

Besides driving Pakistan further into the arms of the Chinese - a process that is already vexing to US policymakers in general - it would jeopardize the entire US military campaign in Afghanistan. A looming backlash in Islamabad is what prevents the US from being too overt or too vocal in support of firmer military ties between Japan and India. Watch for this to become manifest when Obama performs a delicate balancing act as he sits down with Singh later this year.
Lots of realignments under way!
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Hari Seldon »

Japan Recycles Minerals From Used Electronics (NYT)

Terrible how the normally caring and compassionate cheenis are forcing the compassion-worthy Japanese into scavenging electronic junkyards these days. Heartbreaking, some may say....
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:
But he also pushed for the EU to recognise China as a free-market economy, a move that would release restrictions on exports of high-tech to China, and also give the EU less scope for protectionist measures against Chinese imports.

Watch out for these countries to support China in any EU and international forum, where China's national interests are at stake.

China is slowly but steadily undermining the strategic autonomy of various powers.
But this free market economy is also a trap for China since it is not a sound economy. It does not have the bandwidth to expand in such ways.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by RajeshA »

Event Announcement
Oct 05, 2010 in US-China Institute
Presentation by U.S. Ambassador C. Steven McGann
The Changing Roles of U.S., Australia, China and India in the South Pacific
Fiji is expanding its ties with the new Asian superpowers, China and India, says the country’s self-appointed Prime Minister, Frank Bainimarama. The Prime Minister says that he is prepared to modify Fiji's traditional ties with Australia, New Zealand, and the United States in exchange for more aid and trade opportunities, particularly from Beijing.

China’s emerging role in the South Pacific will have implications for America’s Pacific policy, and there are debates whether the US should step up its diplomatic efforts in the South Pacific region.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by RajeshA »

Acharya wrote:
RajeshA wrote:
But he also pushed for the EU to recognise China as a free-market economy, a move that would release restrictions on exports of high-tech to China, and also give the EU less scope for protectionist measures against Chinese imports.

Watch out for these countries to support China in any EU and international forum, where China's national interests are at stake.

China is slowly but steadily undermining the strategic autonomy of various powers.
But this free market economy is also a trap for China since it is not a sound economy. It does not have the bandwidth to expand in such ways.
I think the import of the issue, is not whether China has a free-market economy, but rather whether EU recognizes China as a free-market economy. Such recognition would allow China to have better terms of trade with the EU.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:
But this free market economy is also a trap for China since it is not a sound economy. It does not have the bandwidth to expand in such ways.

I think the import of the issue, is not whether China has a free-market economy, but rather whether EU recognizes China as a free-market economy. Such recognition would allow China to have better terms of trade with the EU.
Even the recognition will have problem. The trade imbalance will start and that is what US found out after WTO entry of PRC in 2000. Now it is asking for currency change.

Free market does not go with fixed currency, protectionism and trade imbalance.
Free market is a fraud concept
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Montana: "Do you take pride in the fact that Chinese copy off Indian?"

The Chinese official position, the claim of many of their propaganda drones and apologists, as well as even individuals( including Indian!) who are non-Chinese, is that China does virtually nothing with India in mind. India is not a factor economically or politically. In fact, this is partly why China and its sympathisers link India with other less developed countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh or Mexico.

But as we know, India itself never follows the lead, or takes its cue from Pakistan or Bangladesh, positively not Pakistan. There is not a single industry, technology or activity(service, research) in which India looked at the example of Pakistan and said "Wow, they are really dynamic and advanced, let's try to compete and perhaps surpass them". But there are many examples, as pointed out, of China following India's lead, despite Chinese statements of non-interest in India.

The Chinese claims and positions are very contrived and manufactured, and all geared to power, money and geo-politics. When I try to put myself in the shoes of a Chinese propagandist or sympathiser, I suddenly feel dirty and in need of a bath, the same feeling one gets with respect to Pakistan or North Korea. Despite India's many faults, it's good India is not like China.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by sanjaykumar »

Some months ago, I had posted that India would not be a global player until it entered the Arctic. Seeeeee....I told ya. :P
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by rgsrini »

Tony Montana wrote:Next time try to be more spontaneous. It just seemed too forced. I knew you were setting me up for a zinger. When the punch line finally came it lost all of it's impact.
Tonyji,
Obviously, I didn't want to enter into a battle of wits with you sir... As a matter of policy, I don't hurt the unarmed.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Airavat »

Nepal stops voting by Tibetan refugees
Nepal acted on information provided by the Chinese embassy and foiled an attempt by Tibetans trying to vote for a government in exile. On Sunday a primary vote was on to elect a Prime Minister — a successor to the current Samdong Rinpoche —- and a 44-member government in exile. Tibetan activists protested against the government’s action saying it was “against the human rights of the Tibetans”.
Hundreds of Taiwanese attend a session by Dalai Lama
The teachings were organized at the request of a group of Taiwanese nationals. "The Dalai Lama is giving a four-day teaching which has just started. He is giving teaching from the text of Nagarjuna, who is a second century Indian scholar from south and also from Atisha's way to enlightenment. These teachings have been requested by a group from Taiwan so there are lots of Taiwanese people along with many locals and foreigners," said Lobsang, a follower. An estimated 80,000 Tibetans arrived in India along with the Dalai Lama after an abortive uprising against the Chinese rule in 1959 and over the years their numbers have swelled.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 06,2010
By Robert Karniol, The Straits Times
China reverts to the harder line: The China Post
It should be further understood that China's possessive view of the South China Sea and the Yellow Sea is not primarily driven by instincts to protect the maritime trade and oil imports underpinning the country's current prosperity. Instead, both are intrinsic to Beijing's broader offshore defense strategy introduced in the mid-1980s.

Some 25 years ago, Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping concluded that a major war with the then-Soviet Union had become improbable. Together with a re- evaluation of the established 'people's war' doctrine after China's disastrous 1979 border war with Vietnam, this saw the People's Liberation Army (PLA) adopt in 1993 a new strategy based on preparing for “local war under high-technology conditions.” And the offshore focus came with the land threat largely removed.

The 'people's war' doctrine is a defensive strategy dependent on massive ground strength to defeat an enemy on Chinese territory. The new posture aimed to meet any threat beyond China's borders, on land through the development of rapid reaction forces and at sea through enhanced naval and air power.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 06, 2010
By Daniel Ten Kate
Vietnam Asks China to Release 9 Detained Fishermen: Business Week
Oct. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Vietnam demanded that China “immediately” and “unconditionally” release a fishing boat and nine crew seized last month in the South China Sea, raising tensions before a regional security meeting next week.

China has held the fishermen since Sept. 11 and won’t release them until they pay a fine for fishing with explosives, Vietnam’s government said in a statement on its website. Vietnam denied the explosives claim and said the boat was operating in Vietnamese territorial waters close to the Paracel Islands, rocky outcrops also claimed by China.

The detentions, which follow China’s imposition in May of a fishing ban in some parts of the South China Sea, come as Vietnam prepares to host a meeting of 18 defense ministers next week that includes China. Last month, the Chinese government demanded that Japan immediately release a fishing boat captain detained in disputed waters after his boat collided with two Japanese coast guard vessels.

“This is clearly a double standard,” said Ian Storey, a fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asia Studies in Singapore. Chinese clashes with Vietnam in disputed waters are “happening on a much larger scale, with much more frequency” than with Japan, he said.

China’s seizure of the crew is “irrational,” according to the statement, issued late yesterday after Vietnam’s foreign ministry representatives met Chinese Embassy officials in Hanoi.

Competing Claims

The South China Sea covers 3.5 million square kilometers (1.4 million square miles) stretching from Singapore to the Straits of Taiwan. China and Vietnam hold the largest claims to the waters, which contain fisheries and oil and gas reserves.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 6, 2010
By Mark Drajem and Daniel Ten Kate
Malaysia Joins Pacific Trade Talks With U.S in Counter to China Influence: Bloomberg
Malaysia will join talks on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a free-trade agreement already being negotiated among eight countries that the Obama administration has offered to counter China’s influence in Southeast Asia.
Adding Malaysia, South Korea and Japan to the Trans-Pacific Partnership would create the largest U.S. trade accord since the North American Free Trade Agreement took effect in 1994 with Canada and Mexico.

The talks, which began this year, have involved the U.S., Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Singapore, Chile, Vietnam and Peru.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 06, 2010
By Ian Timberlake
Film for Hanoi millennium seen as too Chinese: AFP
A big-budget television series about the king who founded Hanoi will not be shown during the city's millennium celebrations after concerns were raised that it looks too Chinese.
Relations with its giant neighbour evoke strong emotions and contradictions in Vietnam, where many bitterly recall 1,000 years of Chinese occupation and, more recently, a 1979 border war.
"We cannot launch it on the millennium celebration, especially when the film is controversial," said Le Ngoc Minh, a deputy director with the government's cinema department.
While Vietnamese routinely express dislike for the Chinese, the country's culture has been greatly influenced by China, and Chinese historical movies are prominent on the country's screens.
The series entitled "Ly Cong Uan -- Duong Toi Thanh Thang Long (Ly Cong Uan -- The Road To Thang Long Citadel)" was shot mostly in China for about 100 billion dong (5.3 million dollars), people involved with the film said.
That is a large sum for a Vietnamese production.
Ly Cong Uan, whose royal name was Ly Thai To, moved the capital of Vietnam from Ninh Binh to Hanoi in 1010 and called it Thang Long, or "soaring dragon", symbolising the desire for independence after a millennium of Chinese domination.
Hanoi on Friday began celebrations, which end next Sunday, to mark the city's 1,000th birthday.
Is Bollywood making any historical films showing Indian cultural influence in Indo-China, or for that matter even in South Asia, some films that are not hokey?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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A very good article on the diplomacy around South China Sea

Published on Oct 05, 2010
By Donald K Emmerson
China's 'frown diplomacy' in Southeast Asia: Asia Times Online
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Good summary of various claims in the South China Sea

Published Oct 06, 2010
Factbox
The South China Sea's disputed maritime borders: Reuters Africa
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 05, 2010
By Hisahiko Okazaki
[former Japanese Ambassador to Thailand]
Mr. Kan, stop wasting time: Japan Times
If the DPJ wishes to emphasize its originality, it could start by reviewing the three-point ban on weapons exports that LDP governments dared not to address. It would contribute to the U.S.-Japan joint exploration of weapon systems. It is high time that the DPJ government depart from its student activistlike fervor and return to the basics of assuring the security of the Japanese people and strengthening the alliance with the U.S.
Does this mean, that Japan and India could better cooperate in trade and joint production of military hardware?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 05, 2010
By James Saft
China runs circles round adversaries: Reuters Blog
“Fiscal troubles in the euro area mean a volatile and most likely weakening euro. By contrast, support from a large outside player like China is likely to strengthen the euro. But against whom will the euro strengthen? Primarily against the dollar — to which the Chinese authorities have pegged their own currency at a rate generally accepted to be considerably undervalued. (If it is not, why the strenuous opposition to yuan flotation?)”

A weak euro means that Chinese exports to the euro zone become more expensive, hence the support, which is cheap at the price, because, after all, Greece is not currently issuing bonds and talk is, the last time it traded on the exchanges, fetching absolutely nothing.

That China was not in Europe solely on a mercy mission became apparent Monday when it met calls from EU officials for a flexible yuan with counter-calls for stability in major currencies.

Stability in currency markets, which by the way is highly unlikely going forward, is good for China because it makes the task of manipulating the value of the yuan to its best advantage that much simpler.

“Hold still,” the shearer said to the lamb.
China continues on its course of propping up other currencies, making them stronger and keeping own currecy undervalued, all to maximize exports.

That too is the Achilles heel of China.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Arihant »

China Threat Is Still Growing: Senior Taiwanese Official

(AP, Oct. 6, 2010)
A senior Taiwanese official has told a defense forum in the United States that despite rapidly warming commercial relations with Taipei, China's military threat against the island is growing, Taiwanese media reported.

The reports call into question the efficacy of China's efforts to use its huge financial resources to convince Taiwanese both in and out of government that political union with the mainland is in the island's interest.

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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 04, 2010
By Jeremy Page
China's Army Extends Sway: Wall Street Journal
The Chinese military's political clout is expected to grow as the Communist Party's ruling Politburo Standing Committee—whose nine members are all civilians and don't include a foreign-policy specialist— prepares for China's change to new leadership in 2012. That process begins in earnest with a party meeting, starting Oct. 15, when attention will focus on whether Xi Jinping, the presumed heir to party chief and President Hu Jintao, is appointed vice chairman of the powerful Central Military Commission, which oversees the PLA.

It is unclear to what extent the PLA is unilaterally expanding its traditional role—to defend the party and Chinese territory—or being encouraged by party leaders to redefine China's broader national interests. But the military has become far more outspoken in recent months, frequently upstaging the foreign ministry and heightening concerns in the region and beyond about how China plans to use its economic muscle.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Lalmohan »

^^^ if the PLA controls large but specific chunks of the economy, could its interests diverge from that of the foriegn service?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published Oct 04, 2010
By Joshua Kurlantzick
A Beijing Backlash: Newsweek
At the same time, many Asian nations are making deals with each other to create a balance against China. Vietnam recently announced a security dialogue with Japan, while India has invited Japan to make enormous new investments in Indian infrastructure—deals that, under different conditions, could have been captured by Chinese companies. What’s more, nearly every nation in Southeast Asia is laying out cash for weapons. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, the amount spent on weapons purchases in Southeast Asia nearly doubled between 2005 and 2009 alone, with Vietnam recently paying $2.4 billion for Russian submarines and jetfighters designed for attacking ships. Given that countries like Vietnam and Malaysia, another major recent arms buyer, face few threats within Southeast Asia, the weapons systems can only be designed to repel China. Beijing is also increasing its military spending by as much as 15 percent annually in recent years, suggesting the tensions between China and its neighbors are only just beginning.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Lalmohan wrote:^^^ if the PLA controls large but specific chunks of the economy, could its interests diverge from that of the foriegn service?
I presume that the focus between the two are different. Whereas the CPC would see more reason to enable an international environment more conducive to making business, businesses in which often the CPC leaders, their progeny and friends are heavily involved in, PLA would want to expand in businesses, where they may have bigger interests - infrastructure, expansion into Tibet and Xinjiang, weapons manufacturing, mining both in China and abroad like in Africa, etc. Expansion into South China Sea offers many tempting possibilities to PLA - mining for mineral wealth, expansion of Navy, etc. Especially as the area is disputed amongst so many parties, means that PLA would have to show much stronger presence, which is good for their pockets. PLA earns through mining there, as well as gets the rest of Chinese state to finance weapons procurement from the weapons factories they own. Both mining and military expansion is good business for PLA.

Just my reading!
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Philip »

Friendly advice on China from the US/CIA's outsourcing bum-chum Blackwater...

http://sweetandsoursocialism.wordpress. ... he-nation/
Total Intelligence and TRC also provided intelligence assessments on China to Deutsche Bank. “The Chinese technical counterintelligence threat is one of the highest in the world,” a TRC analyst wrote, adding, “Many four and five star hotel rooms and restaurants are live-monitored with both audio and video” by Chinese intelligence. He also said that computers, PDAs and other electronic devices left unattended in hotel rooms could be cloned. Cellphones using the Chinese networks, the analyst wrote, could have their microphones remotely activated, meaning they could operate as permanent listening devices. He concluded that Deutsche Bank reps should “bring no electronic equipment into China.” Warning of the use of female Chinese agents, the analyst wrote, “If you don’t have women coming onto you all the time at home, then you should be suspicious if they start coming onto you when you arrive in China.” For these and other services, the bank paid Total Intelligence $70,000 in 2009.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Philip wrote:Friendly advice on China from the US/CIA's outsourcing bum-chum Blackwater...

Blackwater’s Black Ops

Warning of the use of female Chinese agents, the analyst wrote, “If you don’t have women coming onto you all the time at home, then you should be suspicious if they start coming onto you when you arrive in China.”
Reminds me of all the Chinese women that are taken into custody and then deported to China from Pakistani brothels.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 06, 2010
By Adam Miller
Troubled waters: Southeast Asia Globe
China has aggressively staked its claim over the 3,500,000 square km territory that encompasses a string of more than 200 islands of various sizes, including the Spratly and Paracels, even going as far as planting a flag via submarine on the ocean floor 3,760 metres below sea level.
China claims complete sovereignty of up to 80% of the South China Sea, which includes the Spratly and Paracel Islands, intentionally stepping on the toes of Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam.
Image
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

"There is some serious angst on the Chinese side about India's ties with Taiwan"

There is a lot of vulgarity in China's behaviour with Taiwan. But if they have serious issues with Taiwan, why do they accept so much investment and trade from that country?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

"Tibet is alien to most mainland Chinese. Either there is awe of spiritualism or contempt."

Well said! I never tire of pointing out the irony and idiocy of Han Chinese bureaucrats, soldiers and politicians calling Tibet an integral part of China, while knowing nothing about the history or culture. Indians have been going to Mt. Kailash and Lake Manasarovar for centuries, and can you picture the irony of a Chinese dunderhead spokesman telling an Indian pilgrim "Welcome to our country" ? Really, it should be the other way around, if anything!
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Kanson »

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ if the PLA controls large but specific chunks of the economy, could its interests diverge from that of the foriegn service?
Maybe taking a clue from enterprising Pakistan Army, we can safely assume that its grip is only going to intensify.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Wednesday, Oct. 6, 2010
By Ramesh Thakur
Japan's loss, America's gain?: Japan Times
Driven by strategic narcissism, the $3 trillion wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have helped to bankrupt America, which, by outsourcing manufacturing to China and services to India, has enfeebled its capacity to produce enough goods and services to pay its bills. The demonstration of the limits to U.S. power in Iraq and Afghanistan has left others fearful of U.S. power. Abusive practices in the war on terror and the global financial collapse have made them less respectful of American values. Their own resilience through the financial crisis has enhanced their self-confidence.

China has strongly outpaced the industrial world in GDP and trade. It is no longer dependent on U.S. markets, managerial knowhow and technology, nor on U.S. power as a counterweight to a Soviet threat. It will be the major player in setting energy, mineral and commodity prices. The process, structures and rules of the game of international politics must be accommodated to China's growing clout.

China has become much more assertive on a range of issues around the world. From the Copenhagen climate-change conference to Internet freedom, relations with India, and territorial disputes with Asian countries in the South China Sea, Chinese officials and analysts from its state-funded think tanks have issued a string of tough statements.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by hnair »

Philip wrote:
“If you don’t have women coming onto you all the time at home, then you should be suspicious if they start coming onto you when you arrive in China.” For these and other services, the bank paid Total Intelligence $70,000 in 2009.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Who did the Deustche mensch sent for this study of unmensch? Jeff Foxworthy?

"If you work at the bank, but still dont have women coming onto you all the time, you might be a redneck from ze Bank"
"If a chinese girl comes on to you when you land in Beijing, you might be a redneck from ze Bank"
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by sanjaykumar »

What has China gained in the past few months-its peaceful rise mask has slipped, the Japanese are openly denouncing Chinese is the most racist terms. Vietnam is cosying up to those who devastated their country 30 years ago, ASEAN has made very clear where its security interests lie.India is being helped in what can only be described as a massive armament program by the US and Russia in addition to its domestic commitments.


China has demonstrated it is not a responsible member of the comity of nations. It is an overgrown North Korea with the PR skills of Pakistan.


Thank you China-you have made India's job so much easier.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^^^ but but but but ...I'd give the chinese more credit for rationality than just that. Besides, its bad strategy to bank on an enemy making mistakes. Besides, India shouldn;t do bad things like china does because India may not be able to get away with them like china has. And more such confusion confucian gems, only. LOL.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

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Published on Oct 06, 2010
Antony hints at military threat from China: PTI
NEW DELHI: In an apparent reference to China, Defence Minister A K Antony on Wednesday said India's neighbours are building military capabilities at a "feverish" pace and the country needs to be "vigilant and prepared".
Without naming anyone, he said some nations were keen to "incite" threats to India's unity and integrity and stressed the need for securing the country's land, air and sea borders in view of the current security scenario.
"Our neighbours are building their military capabilities at a feverish pace. To successfully meet such challenges, the need for us to be vigilant and prepared at all times goes without saying and is unquestionable," he said.
Antony, who was speaking at the Field Marshal K M Cariappa annual memorial lecture here, did not name any particular country but was clearly referring to China which has been boosting its military capabilities close to Indian territories.
China has been deploying missiles and constructing road infrastructure along the Indian border and recent reports suggested that it is also developing military infrastructure in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
Antony pointed out that the strategic and geo-political situation along with the compulsions of history posed unique challenges for the country.
Observing that country's economic success story, democratic political system and pluralistic society are an object of admiration and envy for several countries, he said, "Some nations are keen to incite threats to our unity and integrity."
He said the prevalent security environment "necessitates securing our land, air and sea borders to effectively guard against traditional threats to our land borders, defending our airspace and protection of our maritime energy supply routes."
At times, the strength we derive from our political system and social fabric throws up challenges, but the nation has by and large responded to these challenges in a mature and a peaceful manner, he said.
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RajeshA wrote:Published on Oct 06, 2010
Antony hints at military threat from China: PTI
NEW DELHI: In an apparent reference to China, Defence Minister A K Antony on Wednesday said India's neighbours are building military capabilities at a "feverish" pace and the country needs to be "vigilant and prepared".
And this is where cup must meet lip and rubber must meet road, after all, no? Why for then, is sri anthony not doing all he can to speed up various defence items in various stages of procurement that have been stuck and struck especially harshly during his tenure as raksha mantri, eh?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by shiv »

At least some of China's current posturing sems to be a conflict between the PLA-pasand factions of the CPC and others.

In this connection I have been trying to find out more about the business interests of the PLA
http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CADB7.htm
China has said that the increases in spending are to improve the living conditions for the military and to improve military hardware in line with hardware improvements around the world (13). In the 1980s, defence spending represented a decreasing percentage of government expenditure, and the PLA was forced to become more self-sufficient (14). This led to the PLA becoming involved in a range of non-military industrial ventures, from aircraft production to pig farming (15).

These entrepreneurial activities were at their height in the 1990s - in 1992, profits of the Chinese 'military industrial complex' are estimated to have been about 10-15 percent of the total defence budget (16). In the mid-1990s there were estimated to be 20,000 different enterprises run by the PLA (17). The state realised that this was not in the interests of a professional defence force and curtailed these activities, but as a result has had to raise the defence budget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s ... _interests
[img]Until the mid-1990s the PLA had extensive commercial enterprise holdings in non-military areas, particularly real estate. Almost all of these holdings were supposedly spun off in the mid-1990s. In most cases, the management of the companies remained unchanged, with the PLA officers running the companies simply retiring from the PLA to run the newly formed private holding companies.[citation needed]

The history of PLA involvement in commercial enterprises began in the 1950s and 1960s. Because of the socialist state-owned system and from a desire for military self-sufficiency, the PLA created a network of enterprises such as farms, guest houses, and factories intended to financially support its own needs. One unintended side effect of the Deng-era economic reforms was that many of these enterprises became very profitable. For example, a military guest house intended for soldier recreation could be easily converted into a profitable hotel for civilian use. There were two main factors which increased PLA commercial involvement in the 1990s. One was that running profitable companies decreased the need for the state to fund the military from the government budget. The second was that in an environment where legal rules were unclear and political connections were important, PLA influence was very useful.[citation needed]

By the early 1990s party officials and high military officials were becoming increasingly alarmed at the military's commercial involvement for a number of reasons. The military's involvement in commerce was seen to adversely affect military readiness and spread corruption. Further, there was great concern that having an independent source of funding would lead to decreased loyalty to the party. The result of this was an effort to spin off the PLA's commercial enterprises into private companies managed by former PLA officers, and to reform military procurement from a system in which the PLA directly controls its sources of supply to a contracting system more akin to those of Western countries. The separation of the PLA from its commercial interests was largely complete by the year 2000. It was met with very little resistance, as the spinoff was arranged in such a way that few lost out.[citation needed][/img]

http://www.david-kilgour.com/2009/Nov_30_2009_04.php
People's Liberation Army General Logistics Department Responsible for Harvesting Organs from Living Falun Gong Practitioners
By Zhen Jun, Clearwisdom.net
November 29, 2009

http://www.clearwisdom.net/html/article ... 12703.html

(Clearwisdom.net) When former Chinese leader Jiang Zemin launched the persecution of Falun Gong in 1999, he controlled the Chinese military forces. Although the military did not use weapons, it played a key role in the illegal persecution: the General Logistics Department served as the leading institution for removing organs from living Falun Gong practitioners for profit.

Jiang Zemin Nurtures the Liberation Army

When Jiang Zemin was in power, he assigned his relatives to high-ranking official positions in the military. Corruption in China intensified as Jiang indulged his people and allowed the military to run business. Higher rank was associated with more money. The military-run business was mainly involved in smuggling. Former Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji announced during a meeting that in the first half of 1998, the military shot and killed over 450 anti-contraband personnel, including public security guards, armed police, and judicial members, and injured approximately 2,200. During the military smuggling operations, they utilized services from the military weather bureau and communications technologies. They used the Premier's signature and seals of the Deputy Chair of the Military Commission without authorization.

In the middle of November 1998, the Central Military Commission and Central Commission for Discipline Inspection held a meeting in Xishan, Beijing. Former Minister of National Defense Chi Haotian spoke at the meeting. According to Chi, 80 percent of the income and capital of the military-run business was embezzled by middle to high ranking officials for personal use.
<snip>
After the suppression of Falun Gong started, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) Central Military Commission conducted six special meetings on "Handling Foreign Religious Issues." The Logistics Department followed Jiang's instructions for "Physically annihilating Falun Gong practitioners." The marketing of human organs became a highly profitable business for the military, approved and encouraged by Jiang.

The orders for removing organs from living practitioners came directly from the Chair of the Military Commission. The General Logistics Department ordered blood tests on practitioners, then arrested them all over the country and processed them. Practitioners were arrested and administered through an organized, systematic process by the Logistics Department. Utilizing military transportation, personnel and forced labor camps built on military facilities, the Logistics Department (LD) became the state live-organ bank. The LD decides which camps the practitioners are taken to, how practitioners are dispatched, transportation, shift procedures, guards, and the budgets. If an organ transplant procedure fails, the organ receivers' information and bodies are scheduled for destruction within 72 hours. This elimination procedure requires approval by a military supervisor. A military supervisor holds the authority to arrest, jail, and execute anyone leaking information regarding the transplant, including doctors, guards, police and researchers. Military advisors are appointed by the Central Military Commission.
http://www.jamestown.org/programs/china ... 4d85b125a4
The PLA’s budget remains veiled and apparently does not include at least some major items found in many Western defense budgets. These include foreign weapons purchases; defense industry subsidies for research and development; certain retiree benefits; and extra-budgetary revenues and resources from a limited number of surviving military commercial enterprises (e.g. hotels and military hospitals) and unit-level production. Also excluded are paramilitary forces, such as the 660,000-strong People’s Armed Police (PAP), and substantial military contributions from regional and local governments. China has never released budgetary breakdowns for individual PLA services. The closest equivalent is Beijing’s annual submission to the UN via the Simplified Reporting Form, which only enumerates respective active forces, reserve forces and militia spending on personnel, training and maintenance, and equipment.

At the same time, the PLA budget may contain costs not included in those of its Western counterparts. It contributes to national economic and infrastructure development, social welfare, crisis management and disaster relief in ways often covered by non-military organizations in the U.S. and other Western countries.

Much remains uncertain: the precise extent to which the PLA, as opposed to local governments, should fund such areas, including reserve forces and militia training and organization, is apparently under debate. For example, it has sought to transfer its retirement homes to local communities for the past decade, with no resolution in sight.
Last edited by shiv on 07 Oct 2010 08:32, edited 1 time in total.
naren
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by naren »

sanjaykumar wrote:What has China gained in the past few months-its peaceful rise mask has slipped
I was at this FBI presentation. They were seriously concerned about the espionage activity by the Chinese. They said that #1 threat to America (Colbert style :mrgreen: ) was PRC, followed by eye-ran. They mentioned that they noticed "increased investments" by PRC (I think in infrastructure, not sure) and are closely watching the events. Chinese origin nationals are most likely to engage in espionage. They were just short of saying "blady Pakis". :lol:
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by naren »

x-posted from Indian naval discussion
Juggi G wrote:Russia Should Help India in Developing N-Triad : Expert
ImageNews
Russia Should Help India in Developing N-Triad : Expert
Vinay Shukla

Moscow, Oct 5 (PTI)

Ahead of Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov's New Delhi visit, a Top Defence Expert has said Russia Should Help India in Developing its "Wholesome" Nuclear Triad to further advance bilateral defence cooperation.

"In my view, Russia Must Help India in the Development of its Wholesome Nuclear Triad, so that it has Naval, Air and Land Platforms for its Nuclear Delivery Systems," Ruslan Pukhov, Director of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) said.

Pukhov is also a Member of Public Advisory Board of the Russian Ministry of Defence and will accompany Serdyukov on his New Delhi visit beginning tomorrow during which the India-Russia intergovernmental commission on military- technical cooperation co-chaired by Defence A K Antony is to hold its annual session.

"Why Shouldn't We Jointly Work for the Development of an Indian SSBN (Nuclear Submarine for Launching Ballistic Missiles)" Pukhov told PTI.

He Suggested that India and Russia Could Jointly Develop a "de facto" Common Naval System of Nuclear Deterrence Similar to the one US and Britain Have.


"In case China Develops its Fleet of Aircraft Carriers, Russia could Offer Project 949 (Nato codename Oscar-II) Nuclear Submarines, Naval Tu-22M3 Bombers and Even, Although Could Sound Incredible, the Nuclear Propelled Missile Cruisers of Project 1144 (Orlan class)," Pukhov said.

Reacting to India's apprehensions about China's growing military clout, Pukhov termed as false reports that Moscow was giving superior weapons and technologies to Beijing.

"The Type of Harmony and Complementarity of the Military-Political Interests Russia has with India, will Simply never be in our relations with China. This Would Contradict the Elementary Norms of Geopolitics," he said.

"You will never hear Russian officials expressing concern at the growing Chinese military might, but all of them are well aware of its implications and very well understand that PRC poses a potential threat to Russia's Far East and Eastern Siberia," he said.

The Massive Wargames Vostok-2010 (Orient 2010) involving Thousand of Servicemen and Warships in the Far East and Eastern Siberia, during which the Russian Troops also Practiced the Use of Tactical Nuclear Weapons are the Reflection of this Concern, he said.

"The Indian Air Force's Sukhoi Su-30MKI is a Generation Ahead of Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters given to China. Same can be said about Talwar class Stealth Frigates built for India and ''Sovremenny'' class Destroyer sold to China.

"While India and Russia are jointly developing hypersonic BrahMos cruise missiles, Fifth Generation fighter (FGFA) and Futuristic Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA), No Such Project is Underway with China," Pukhov noted.
shiv
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by shiv »

China views the US exactly like Indian views China
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04762.html
Guan accused the United States of being a "hegemon" and of plotting to encircle China with strategic alliances. The official saved the bulk of his bile for U.S. arms sales to China's nemesis, Taiwan -- Guan said these prove that the United States views China as an enemy.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

The Chinese are bogus. India also has concerns about the US, but they are not so crudely expressed, even though the US has done things that have affected India adversely. Also, when India expresses apprehensions about China, it has a lot to do with China's ideology and political system, namely a regimented, secretive, totalitarian dictatorship, with whom India has actually fought a war.

The respective concerns are not on a morally or ideologically equivalent plane.
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