China Military Watch

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 27 Oct 2010 16:17

Originally Posted by dinesha in Indian Missiles and Munitions Thread

Northeast Rebels ‘Spy’ for China
The Telegraph - Calcutta

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Oct 2010 18:53

From BR news section
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=13668

The blog also refers to findings of British assessments that in 1993, China developed its first air defence system called S-300, to be followed by that of HQ-9 (Hong Qi-Red Flag 9) system in 1998 and a latest version of the same in 2008, capable of acting against Indian aircraft like SU-30, Mirage 2000, Jaguar, MIG 23,27 and 29.
<snip>
The blog remarks that as per British estimates, 30 sets of HQ-9 in China will be enough to enforce on India a 'no fly zone' of 100-125 km from the Sino-Indian boundary.

Excuse me folks where are the Chinese going to put these radars? On top of mount everest?

Mountains are opaque to radar and a plane flying between mpuntain ranges is not going to be seen by a ground based radar. I am willing to be corrected.

If its a Chinese AWACS it will need to be shot down.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 27 Oct 2010 20:12

I think S 300 is a russian system. Mount evrest in in Nepal and Nepal fortunately not yet gulped by Chipanda No thanks to Echuri sitaram

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Oct 2010 20:48

shiv-ji, not sure if you've read commander kohli's book on himalayan expeditions? the chinese in fact mounted a manned expedition to mt everest on the rumour that india and the us had planted a surveillance device on top of mt everest... sudden interest in mountaineering developing overnight!

the real listening devices were actually on nanda devi, and one got lost - and has never been recovered. it had a radio active power source, which led the CIA to forever suspect india of stealing it for the fissile materials, its out there even today, probably leaking rads into the watershed...

eventually kohli planted a device on a mountain in ladakh, which started to generate good data on lop nor, but was then superceded by satellite images

amazing stuff!

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Oct 2010 21:48

^^^And IAF is looking for 'man-portable' and light weight radars to mount them on top of mountains in NE and Ladakh/Northern and Central LAC.

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 28 Oct 2010 06:55

China Conducts Joint Military Exercises in Tibet; Air Force, Artillery, Electronic Warfare Divisions Participate

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2010 07:49

china has a army of trained yetis to carry the heavy S300 system radars to the tops of mountains. indian humans and mules can only lift light radars to such places. china hilo yindu zilo.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 28 Oct 2010 14:14

China Holds First Live-fire Joint Drills In Tibet
CBS News

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 28 Oct 2010 14:42

China’s First Air-Ground Exercise with Live Ammunition in Tibet
The Indian Express

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Oct 2010 05:26

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101027/ap_ ... hina_tibet
same from yahoo..

BEIJING – China's military on Wednesday said it held its first live-fire joint ground and air drills on the Tibetan plateau, likely setting off alarm bells in nervous neighbor India.

The exercises were held at an altitude above 15,420 feet (4,700 meters) and involved fighter aircraft, attack helicopters, artillery, tanks and electronic warfare units, the official People's Liberation Army Daily newspaper said.

No exact locations for the exercises or other details such as numbers of troops involved were given in keeping with usual military secrecy. Almost all the vast Tibetan plateau lies at or above 13,000 feet (4,000 meters).

The exercises stand to add to concerns in India over a Chinese military buildup in Tibet. The countries fought a brief but bloody border war in 1962 and continue to argue over territorial claims. More recently, New Delhi has complained that Chinese troops along the frontier have grown more aggressive and expressed concern over China's increasingly close ties to the military of India's arch rival, Pakistan.

The drills are part of a strategy by Beijing to upgrade training — increasingly involving the firing of real ammunition — and the integration of air, land and sea assets following a two decade-long process of acquiring sophisticated new equipment, much of it from Russia.

The PLA Daily report said the exercises included precision strikes on simulated enemy command posts, artillery positions and other targets.

It said participants successfully overcame hardships related to the high altitude, low oxygen, and extreme cold.

"This is extremely significant in regards to exploring models for training in mountainous terrain and raising the overall level of systematized warfare," the newspaper said.

Chinese Communist troops occupied Tibet shortly after the 1949 revolution that established the People's Republic and have been steadily upgrading their presence with new bases and infrastructure such as roads and airports.

(This version CORRECTS year of China-India war in paragraph 4 to 1962 instead of 1963)

all ready..

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 29 Oct 2010 05:59

India's Look East policy shouldn't mean 'encircle China': People's Daily

That's what SHE said

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Oct 2010 12:24

Underground facilites in Tibet, Yunaan, Chengdu, around Lhasa

WIll India be able to surmount this infrastructure to free Tibet in future

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Oct 2010 17:20

We need Russia's nod to encircle china. For every news about Indo-Russian defence venture, china will feel that way. Think about a joint exercise at yuzhno-sakhalinsk!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Oct 2010 18:42

SaiK wrote:We need Russia's nod to encircle china. For every news about Indo-Russian defence venture, china will feel that way. Think about a joint exercise at yuzhno-sakhalinsk!

leaving aside the question of whether or not encircling is a justified policy or not, why the heck would we need russia's nod to do it ?

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 29 Oct 2010 18:43

What about a Joint Naval exercise in IOR and Pacific ? That would give an even stronger message

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 29 Oct 2010 23:04

Cross - Post

India Today » The Big Story
The ChiPak Threat

Sandeep Unnithan
October 23, 2010

A Detailed Study carried out by the Indian Air Force was submitted to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) specifying Two Contingencies.

The First, a Full Scale War against Pakistan while Adopting a Dissuasive Posture against China. For this, a Force of 44 Squadrons is Required.

The Second Contingency sees A Simultaneous Conflict with China and Pakistan with the Capability to Hold Pakistan and Defend against China, Requires a Force of 55 Combat Squadrons."

This Stark Assessment comes from the MoD's Eleventh Plan, 2007-2012. This Secret Document, a Five-Year Acquisition Roadmap for the Defence Forces now with India Today Illustrates the Ultimate Nightmare of Indian Strategic Planners : A Simultaneous Attack by China and Pakistan along the Western, Northern and North-Eastern Borders. A Concerted Multi-Front Air-Land Battle over 7,000-km that Stretches the Indian armed Forces Thin and Potentially Threaten to Sever Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) and the North-east.

This is What the Eleventh Plan Outlines for Meeting this New Threat :-

• One Mountain Strike Corps Headquarters with 4,000 Support Troops.

• Two Mountain Divisions with 32,000 Troops.

• One Armoured Brigade with 3,000 Troops and 135 Tanks.

• One Amphibious Brigade with 3,500 Soldiers.

• Raising a Third Artillery Division with around 180 Guns.

• Prepare the Indian Army for High Intensity War against a Nuclear-Biological-Chemical (NBC) Backdrop by Developing Capabilities to Withstand NBC Attacks and Remain Battleworthy to Fight Efficiently in a Contaminated Environment.

• One Nuclear-Powered Attack Submarine or SSN (Akula-2 INS Chakra being leased from Russia in 2011. Second SSN in the Twelfth Plan).

From the Karakoram ranges to the Himalayas, India is being slowly encircled in a new strategic partnership between Beijing and Islamabad that could well be called the 'ChiPak' axis. It is now an Overtly Nuclear Alliance, Boosted through Clandestine Transfers of Cruise and Ballistic Missiles Technology, Nuclear Warheads and the Possibility of concerted military action. Completing India's strategic encirclement is the 'String of Pearls', a network of Chinese ports and facilities in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar.

In his Raksha Mantri's directives of 2008, a classified set of orders issued to the armed forces every five years, Defence Minister A.K. Antony asked the forces to prepare for a two-front war. "Logically, a 'two-front' strategy comprises first knocking Pakistan down by a blow from a Cold Start and then transferring the main effort to the relatively slower paced, but more portentous conflict in the eastern Himalayas," says Ali Ahmed, an analyst with the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses. Terming Pakistan and China 'two irritants', Army Chief General V.K. Singh said the terror infrastructure across the western border and Beijing's rising military prowess were a worry for India.

The Scale of the ChiPak Alliance could Prove to be More than just an Irritant. The Apogee of their Nuclear Ties was Revealed to the World in January 2004 in Sartorial Fashion: Two Plastic Bags from Good Looks Fabrics and Tailors, Islamabad stuffed with Chinese Uranium-Based Nuclear Weapon Blueprints. These Designs Sold to Libya by Rogue Scientist A.Q. Khan were Evidence of the Han Paternity of the World's First Islamic Bomb . A Nuclear Capability that has Allowed Pakistan to Counterbalance India by using Terror as an Instrument of State Policy.

Adding to India's Worries of Strategic Encirclement is the Use of Coordinated ChiPak Diplomatic Pressure on J&K.

Satellite Images obtained this month by the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security show Pakistan has completed Khushab 2 & 3, Three Plutonium Production Reactors Built with Chinese Assistance, Marking a Generational Leap from a Uranium to a Plutonium Bomb Line.
A Bulletin of Atomic Scientists report estimates Pakistan could already have between 70-90 nuclear weapons compared to India's 60-80 and had produced enough fissile material to make another 90 nuclear weapons. (China is estimated to have 240 nuclear weapons).

Each of these Reactors could Produce Enough Plutonium for between 40 and 50 Bombs each Year. The New Plutonium Bomb Line could Improve the Quality and Quantity of Pakistan's Nuclear Arsenal which will Arm a New Series of Missiles under Production. The Fateh Jang Missile Factory, 50 km west of Islamabad, Produces the Shaheen 1 and 2 Intermediate-Range Ballistic Missiles, Derived from the Chinese M-9 and M-18 missiles and the strategic 500-km range Babar Cruise Missile which are to be Tipped with these New Plutonium Weapons.

The Himalayas AFlame

India's New Battle Precis Factors in a Two-Front War with China-Pakistan. Brigadier Gurmeet Kanwal, Director of the Indian Army's Centre for Land Warfare Studies, says There is a 70 to 80 per cent probability of the next war being in the Mountains and a 60 per cent Probability it will be Confined there.

Three Probable Scenarios :-

FORWARD DEPLOYMENT : In case of War with One, the Side Not in the Conflict, either Pakistan or China, Occupies Forward Positions along the Border Freezing the Movement of India's Dual-Tasked Divisions in the West and East. This Imposes Serious Restrictions on the Indian Military Plan.

AGGRESSIVE PATROLLING : A Stage Higher. Side not in Conflict Clashes with Indian Patrols. Will again have the Effect of Tying Down Indian Reserves (the Dual-Tasked Divisions).

FULL SCALE WAR : Both China and Pakistan Launch Multiple Attacks on India. The Least Likely Scenario but One which Cannot be Ruled Out by the Indian Armed Forces.

"The ChiPak Relationship is the First and Oldest Proliferation Relationship, a Reward for Pakistan Supporting Mao at the UN at a Time when the US Demanded all Nations Support Chiang Kai-Shek. What Followed was Limitless Aid, Without Strings, Proffered Especially in the Military and Nuclear Arenas," says Adrian M. Levy, co-author of Deception: Pakistan, the United States, and the Secret Trade in Nuclear Weapons.

Adding to India's Worries of Strategic Encirclement is the Application of Coordinated ChiPak Diplomatic Pressure on J&K. From calling it a matter to be settled between India and Pakistan, China now unequivocally maintains it is a disputed area. For the past year, it has been issuing only paper visas to Kashmiris (largely a symbolic snub given the minuscule numbers applying) and, last year, invited separatist leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq to Beijing.

This July, it denied a visa to India's northern army commander Lt. Gen. B.S. Jaswal because he controlled a 'disputed area'. India lodged a strong diplomatic protest and suspending nascent defence ties-port visits by warships and military exercises with China leading to a chill between the two nations not seen in years. This comes even as a booming bilateral trade between the two is set to cross $60 billion, India's largest trading partner is also Swiftly moving into its Strategic Space.

In a Sense, this 'My Enemy's Enemy is my Friend' Version for South Asia has always been around. Since it's landmark border settlement with Pakistan in 1963 where Field Marshal Ayub Khan ceded over 2,000 sq km of the Shaksgam Valley to Mao's China just a year after it inflicted a humiliating defeat on India, China has been Pakistan's largest military benefactor. In 1971, Nixon used Pakistan to reach out to Mao's China. Today, from their serene offices behind the vermillion-walled Zhongnanhai compound, Beijing's Kremlin, the engineer-leaders of the Chinese juggernaut are using their southern ally as a springboard into west, south and central Asia and against India.

"Pakistan is China's North Korea in South Asia, a Strategic Hedge Designed to Prevent the Rise of Asian Rival, India," says Defence Analyst K. Subrahmanyam. It is an UnEqual Relationship Islamabad Gleefully Acknowledges. During his Visit to Beijing this July, President Asif Ali Zardari said that Pakistan would continue to be China's "Force Multiplier". He didn't Mention India but the Allusion was Evident.

With American Imports like F-16s making up the Qualitative Edge, cheaper Chinese arms imports provided the Pakistani military machine with the Quantitative Edge. Since the 1990s, nearly 80 per cent of Pakistan's arsenal including JF-17 fighters, Type 85 battle tanks and F-22 frigates have come from China.

China is now working at neutralising Russia, the US and India to become the dominant Asian power. Deft Chinese moves in the past few months-an ongoing ChiPak nuclear-deal Five Nuclear Reactors including a Gigantic 1 Gigawatt Plant that far exceeds the Indo-US deal, generous economic assistance, $200 million flood aid and some 120 infrastructure projects, have pried Pakistan loose from the American orbit. As Af-Pak Flounders, ChiPak is the more Enduring Reality. "The Chinese Investments in Pakistan are Now so Heavy that they will do Everything to Guarantee the Survival of Pakistan as a State," says Jayadeva Ranade, former R&AW official.

How has India's Establishment Reacted to what analyst B. Raman calls the 'Strategic Strangulation' of India by a rising superpower that is learning to back its Economic Muscle with Military Might. The recent Commanders' Conference in Delhi underscored China as the Long-Term Threat. The view in South Block is "Trust and Verify but Keep the Powder Dry".

"There is a new assertiveness among the Chinese. It is difficult to tell which way it will go. So it is important to be prepared," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told a recent meeting of editors in the Capital. But the frequency of such assertions does not match ground realities. The Prime Minister's Concerns and what a Cabinet Minister Calls China's 'Blow Hot, Blow Cold' Policy Echoes South Block's Puzzlement.

"When Somebody Arms a Hostile Neighbour with Nuclear Weapons and First Strike Delivery Systems Like Cruise Missiles, it is An Act of War," says Strategic Analyst Rear Admiral (Retd) Raja Menon. India has, however, not even raised the topic of nuclear transfers to Pakistan with China particularly because South Block has been keen to try and play down the chill in ties with China. "There are areas we will compete in and there are areas we will cooperate in. It is important for us to keep all avenues of dialogue open and not try and solve the problem through confrontation," says Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao.

China's Hardening Stance comes in the Backdrop of a Major Consolidation of its Comprehensive National Power and an Explosive Military Modernisation, the Largest by any Country since the Cold War. China officially claims to spend a modest $40 billion on defence (the Pentagon, however, pegs it between $45-65 billion), compared to India's $31 billion spend. It is rapidly acquiring fourth generation fighter aircraft, aircraft carriers, conventional and nuclear-powered attack submarines and a highly rapidly deployable, networked army. It is also investing in what US Pacific Fleet Commander Admiral Robert F. Willard called "anti-access area denial weapon systems" like DF-21 ballistic missiles that can shred aircraft carriers.

China is now working at neutralising Russia, the United States and India to become the dominant Asian power.
This has, in recent months, led to an increasing assertiveness in its sphere of influence particularly along a 4,056-km disputed border with India. The border has been quiet since a 1993 pact between two nations for peaceful resolution but the massive infrastructure upgradation has ensured the Chinese army can be speedily rushed into Tibet. Influential new actors on the margins like energy companies, researchers and netizens are shaping China's foreign policy says the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI). "The view that China should strongly defend its interests internationally is becoming prevalent, especially among these new foreign policy actors," says Linda Jakobson, director of SIPRI's China and Global Security Programme.

For India, the new Chinese assertiveness comes when the South Block is poised for a troika of state visits-Presidents Barack Obama, Dmitry Medvedev and Nicolas Sarkozy. The Obama visit, in particular, will be crucial. Analysts say that the Mutuality of India's Security Interests with the US in the 21st century could Irrevocably Draw the two countries Closer. Defence analyst Major General (Retd) G.D. Bakshi calls for India to Strengthen Ties with Key Asian Countries Japan, Vietnam, Taiwan and South Korea. "India Must Offer Vietnam a Civil Nuclear Deal and Provide More Meaning Conventional Military Assistance," Bakshi says.

"India needs to enhance economic cooperation with neighbours, other than Pakistan, through better implementation of economic cooperation and aid programmes. Our present record of fulfiling promises to South Asian neighbours is sloppy," says former Indian envoy G. Parthasarathy.

As Chinese Analyst, Dai Bing Predicts: "While a Hot War between China and India is out of the Question, a Cold War between the Two Countries is Increasingly Likely." One that will be Determined by the Stickiness of the ChiPak Doctrine.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 29 Oct 2010 23:48

A very big article with very little substance. It just goes on to repeat what BR has known for a really long time. Typical of India Today.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Oct 2010 01:21

^^^The news about additional Armored Brigade, Artillery Division and Amphibious Brigade is heartening (If he has got his facts correct).

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 30 Oct 2010 02:01

So we have not yet learnt the lessons of 1962? Is this a surprise that we will have to fight on two fronts? It does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Talk about realism instead of sensationalism - Can we please expedite the pending acquisitions? With the economy can we "spend" a higher percentage of GDP on national security?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Oct 2010 06:31

China is mostly noise. They will prefer to let others do the real fighting - translate cheaper means to achieve the same end.

The other angle is that there are plenty of nations that cannot allow India to take a beating either. Just cannot happen.

However, Indian leadership needs to do its part and has not done a very good job of it - so far. I have said this before - circumstances will force the issue.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 30 Oct 2010 08:31

NRao wrote:China is mostly noise.

Perhaps true but dangerous as foreign policy.

The other angle is that there are plenty of nations that cannot allow India to take a beating either. Just cannot happen.

Perhaps true but can we take that to the bank?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 30 Oct 2010 09:16

"Pakistan is China's North Korea in South Asia, a Strategic Hedge Designed to Prevent the Rise of Asian Rival, India," says Defence Analyst K. Subrahmanyam. It is an UnEqual Relationship Islamabad Gleefully Acknowledges. During his Visit to Beijing this July, President Asif Ali Zardari said that Pakistan would continue to be China's "Force Multiplier". He didn't Mention India but the Allusion was Evident.

Pak will have to endure the sufferings for all the ills of China's behaviour for being China's dog. In any move against China, in order the blunt the edge of China, Pak will be attacked more vigorously, before handling the China head on. There are already examples were Pak was left to hang dry.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 30 Oct 2010 20:35

It is time to raise some serious concerns about china's supply of weapons to tsp ,digging holes around our house and doing everything that should not be allowed by a normal , self confident natiion, than to regret it 20 yrs later .
Better way of doing this is by giving a big tit -for tat ,because a reactionary mode best suits chinese ,as they only understand the language of kungfu.

You kick them in their face you survive if you dont they s**t around every nook and corner of your house ,and wont let us live and prosper peacefully .
Its is necessary that the ministers think about doing something very serious to the chinese .

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 30 Oct 2010 23:42

Nihat wrote:A very big article with very little substance. It just goes on to repeat what BR has known for a really long time. Typical of India Today.

As Chinese Analyst, Dai Bing Predicts: "While a Hot War between China and India is out of the Question, a Cold War between the Two Countries is Increasingly Likely." One that will be Determined by the Stickiness of the ChiPak Doctrine.

Fundamentally India has to create a hot war which brings down the economy of China without really a border war.
This is possible and has to be planned.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 31 Oct 2010 03:40

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 31 Oct 2010 11:38

From the India today articles posted by Juggi G:

FORWARD DEPLOYMENT : In case of War with One, the Side Not in the Conflict, either Pakistan or China, Occupies Forward Positions along the Border Freezing the Movement of India's Dual-Tasked Divisions in the West and East. This Imposes Serious Restrictions on the Indian Military Plan

It is exactly to prevent this situation that newer Divisions and Corps HQ are being raised.

As of now, the focus is on North-East - the raising of two newer divisions has beefed up the III and IV Corps while raising of new Mountain Strike Corps with two more Mountain Divisions will give Eastern Command respectable offensive capability.

Coming to Western and Northern Command - the IX Corps HQ is in place to take care of Chincken's Neck Area - we moved III Corps in 2002 to act as higher HQ for forces in this areas. Plus, once the Northern Command receives two more Mountain Divisions in next 5 year plan - the need to bring in forces from Eastern Theater will be lesser. Not that IA will not move - but if we find PLA to be aggressive and chances of shooting match - they can stay put.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 01 Nov 2010 02:41

China inaugurates fifth airport in Tibet

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2010 03:33

Mahendra wrote:del

I was just kidding

Patrick Cusack · Post by **Patrick Cusack** » 01 Nov 2010 05:37

Calling the Chinese names will not help but partnering with Vietnam, Japan and South Korea will help.

The Chinese can never ever be trusted. Hope there is one more Ngô Quyền who will defeat the Chinese forces again at the Bạch Đằng River.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2010 06:04

JVKrishnan wrote:
Thomas Kolarek wrote:HQ9 shot Indias Phalcon down
seems some half baked news, trying to see if any one read about it ?
was that article in english?

May be this can be used to smoke out AD units

UCAV that goes by the name
MiG_Skat UAV

Thomas Kolarek · Post by **Thomas Kolarek** » 01 Nov 2010 07:06

India should be vary of chinese designs, they seems to safeguard their oil route - Gwadar, Gilgit. knowing India can kill their current oil route during the war. 2012-15 is going to be an important period for India, hope our politicians gets awaken sooner than sorry. whatever is being done is not enough DOT.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Nov 2010 00:30

just FYI,

Vriksh wrote:Chinese Y-XX transport a/c to be unveiled Dec 2009 for flight testing. 200 Tonne payload capacity (C-17 Globemaster class)

Possible rendering:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7027/newlifter1.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5108/newlifter2.jpg

Gotta hand it to them... they think big and have made some impressive strides in many fields. Hopefully will kick some sense into Indian strategic corridors in a hurry.

having competition is good... gets the juices flowing.

this is exactly one year old. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 51#p768451

we had all kind of people convincing us that the chinese C-17 was a reality which would be unveiled at dubai air show 2009.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 02 Nov 2010 02:21

Rahul M wrote:just FYI,

Vriksh wrote:Chinese Y-XX transport a/c to be unveiled Dec 2009 for flight testing. 200 Tonne payload capacity (C-17 Globemaster class)

Possible rendering:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7027/newlifter1.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5108/newlifter2.jpg

Gotta hand it to them... they think big and have made some impressive strides in many fields. Hopefully will kick some sense into Indian strategic corridors in a hurry.

having competition is good... gets the juices flowing.
this is exactly one year old. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 51#p768451

we had all kind of people convincing us that the chinese C-17 was a reality which would be unveiled at dubai air show 2009.

Yea, that's all a load of crap, China is nowhere close to fielding a C-17 class plane.

Now, for some update on Chinese military progress:

1) The WS-10A engine appears to be ready and undergoing mass production. New pictures have surfaced of a batch of J-11B's equipped with this new engine. According to multiple sources it should have a thrust of ~130kN

2) Multiple sources indicate that the Chinese 5th generation figher, J-XX, is in the taxi run phase and will likely have its maiden flight in a few weeks.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Nov 2010 05:37

The only way we can currently counter china is from space based defence technologies, that may include ballistics. We have enough demonstrators and baselines to take it a step further. It would only make our nation stronger in terms of NFU. We should never forget more investments in the future for this purpose.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 02 Nov 2010 09:43

China’s Astrashastra
-By Gen. Shankar Roychowdhury
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/dc-comme ... hastra-640

“(S)ince no nation threatens China, one must wonder: Why this growing investment? Why these continuing large and expanding arms purchases? Why these continuing robust deployments?”
Donald H. Rumsfeld
Secretary of Defence, US
June 4, 2005

These and other questions posed by the “peaceful rise of China” reflect the insecurities in its neighbourhood as also its impact on the uneasy equilibrium of Sino-India relations, particularly in the context of China’s special relationship with Pakistan. Geography has been strategically adverse to India in this matrix, in which China’s core Han heartland is protected behind the strategic depth of outlying non-Han regions, whereas India’s own heartlands are well within strike ranges from both China as well as Pakistan. India has a declared no-first-use policy for its nuclear weapons, but it would be ostrich-like to dismiss the long-term perspectives of such doomsday contingencies, howsoever remote or unlikely at present.

The centrepiece of China’s military power is the formidable Second Artillery Corps, the land-based strategic missile force of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), established in 1966. It functions directly under the Central Military Commission, China’s supreme military authority, and though it constitutes only four per cent of the PLA, is annually allotted 12-15 per cent of the national defence budget, and 20 per cent of the procurement budget. The formation is equipped with indigenous missiles of the DF (“Dong Feng” or East Wind) series, all of which are capable of carrying both nuclear and conventional warheads. Sometimes referred to as “the Divine Swords”, Dong Feng missiles range in size and performance from strategic intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) like the DF-5, and DF-31 which can reach targets in Europe and North America, to theatre-level intermediate and medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBM) like the ubiquitous DF-4 and DF-21 which can cover targets in Asia and the Pacific region, besides short-range ballistic missiles (SRBM) like the DF-15.

The DF-21 MRBM has reportedly also been modified as an anti-ship “carrier buster” specifically designed to engage American carrier task forces in the western Pacific and East China seas, though there is some scepticism about these claims. In addition, the Chinese Navy has its own strategic assets in the form of a single nuclear submarine of the Xia class, carrying the Julang 1 (Giant Wave) submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) with a range of 1,700 kilometres.

Second Artillery Corps is headquartered at Qinghe, and organised into six “bases” dispersed throughout the country, numbered from 51 to 56, each fielding two to 12 missile brigades, for an estimated total of 40 operational missile units. Needless to say all parts of India are covered by the reach of China’s Dong Feng missiles, and of special concern are No. 56 Missile Base of eight missile brigades located in Tibet and north-western China, and No. 53 Missile Base of four missile brigades in south-western China, whose units can engage all parts of India almost in situ, while China’s Xia can emerge from its lair in the new submarine base on Hainan Island and engage targets in India from within Chinese territorial waters.

China has a record of unabashed proliferation of both missile as well as nuclear weapon technologies, most notably to Pakistan, to whom large numbers of the intermediate-range ballistic missiles DF-15 in the M9 and M11 versions have been sold or otherwise provided at “friendship terms”. The potential threat from China’s strategic missile forces positioned to the north and east of India is supplemented by those of Pakistan which poses a similar threat to the country from the west.

Pakistan’s missile forces are all nuclear capable and totally India-oriented, equipped with M11 and M9 export versions of the basic Chinese DF-15 missile, redesignated in Pakistan as the Hatf and Shaheen series respectively. Pakistan’s strategic assets are grouped under the Strategic Forces Command (SFC) of the Pakistan Army, organised around three Strategic Missile Groups as a separate corps-level force headquartered at Rawalpindi. Their overall command and control rests with the country’s National Command Authority (NCA), the apex body controlling nuclear release with the Strategic Plans Division of the General Headquarters providing planning and staff support.

India’s plans for deterrence were initially hesitant due to political ambivalence based on moral philosophies, but subsequently, after several stumbles and false starts, the strategic weapons programme meaningfully commenced in 1983 with the Integrated Guided Missile Development Project comprising five missile programmes, including the (150/250 km) Prithvi SRBM series. Amongst these, the Prithvi programme subsequently expanded and developed along twin tracks, the shorter-range, Pakistan-specific Prithvi SRBM series and the longer-range Agni MRBM series oriented towards more distant objectives, the latest being the Agni III, with a 3,500 km range, but still inadequate for comprehensive deterrence against China.

Indian strategic weapons are held by their respective services, organised into missile groups with operational control resting with the tri-services SFC under the Chiefs of Staff Committee and the ultimate level of decision making by the NCA under the chairmanship of the Prime Minster. It must be emphasised here that India’s strategic forces can achieve true credibility only if they are completely based on ICBM and MRBM. The SRBM, like the Prithvi, have to be allotted a conventional battlefield missile role and possibly handed down to artillery divisions for support of tactical operations. Meanwhile, the Indian Navy has just commenced its own strategic programme with the launch of the nuclear powered submarine Arihant to be complemented sometime in the future with the short-range (reportedly 700 km) submarine-launched missile Sagarika (K-15), appropriate enough for a technology demonstrator, but of far too limited and uncertain a reach to be a credible submarine-launched deterrent.

In their present stage, India’s strategic missile forces can be dispassionately assessed as technologically adequate but numerically deficient for the multiple potential threats the country faces. Also, the critically vital necessity of a defensive shield of anti-ballistic missiles is completely lacking at present, but reported to be under development. It has to be expedited on priority, as a matter of national survival. Strategic missile forces are the hardcore of deterrence as well as coercion, and India’s strategic forces have to match and, where possible, dominate those of its potential adversaries. The Brahmastra is necessary to counter the Divine Swords.

- Gen. Shankar Roychowdhury is a former Chief of Army Staff and a former Member of Parliament