Pres. Obama's visit.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Nov 2010 06:41

Like all other convenient BS that US puts out, this BS that US cannot do without TSP support to take on Talibunnies has assumed a life of its own. Fact of the matter is that US can put TSP on notice using any # of leverages it has, but it deliberately chooses not to.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 07 Nov 2010 07:20

Vishal Jolapara wrote: Obama landed in Pakistan en-route India ?
I thought the routing was Andrews > Ramstein > Mumbai

Obama to meet Zardari during stop over in Pakistan

The news source is Pakh-Observer. 420% true onlee.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 07 Nov 2010 07:27

Looks like India Inc. was charmed and impressed by Obama. The feeling is that we have to get our act together and take this to the next step--there's no other option. They are clear about our interests on the business side, now they want the Govt to take care of our interests on the political side.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 07 Nov 2010 07:31

CRamS Sir,
I think you are over estimating US power to leverage Pakistan.US is not a single minded entity. There are multiple parties with multitude of interests having diametrically opposing points of view within US which negates any leverage against Pakistan. There are parties within US who want to punish Pak for various US deaths but are unable to do so for reasons I cannot fully understand.It is not as if everybody in US administration loves Pakistan and wants to donate billions of tax dollars to them.
India is unable to communicate to people within US administration who might be against Pakistan and use them to lobby to our advantage. We failed because there are elements within GOI who serve the interests of the same people in US who have interests contrary to ours.
Altair

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 07 Nov 2010 07:40

Gagan wrote: The news source is Pakh-Observer. 420% true onlee.

Indeed. But misfortune struck: if you google "obama cancels pakistan stopover" you will find that the intelligents society of islamabad (ISI) refused security clearance for Air Force One to land in Chaklala due to talibanic disturbances and unfortunately, Obama was unable to share with Zardari what he and 250 top American CEOs were doing in India.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Nov 2010 09:42

Altair, that is exactly the point. In spite of the fact there is a section within the US Administration that understands the Pakistani fraud, duplicity and subterfuge, the fact remains that the US is unable/unwilling (it would be some time before we clearly know which one of these two words best described the situation) to punish Pakistan. The US is losing its own personnel of the armed forces and civilians and yet is unable/unwilling to take action against TSP. OTOH, it is increasingly becoming generous. None can illustrate this better than the positions of Obama himself before Presidential elections and after that.

Today, Obama needs Pakistani help in winding up Afghan operations and go back. Yesterday, it was the need for logistics support to its troops in Afghanistan. The day before that it was the need for intelligence and access to Pakistani bases to mount attacks. Much before that, it was the need to build an oil pipeline. Earlier to that, it was the need to relocate Osama in Afghanistan and box him in there. The list goes on and on all the way back to 1950.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 07 Nov 2010 09:52

^ Perhaps some guru can explain in another thread what 'punishing Pakistan' means?
The whole idea that India has outsourced the management of its neighborhood to
others is enigmatic at best and asinine at worse

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Nov 2010 10:17

during the george bush2 visit, AF1 took off empty from delhi while GB2 hopped into a unmarked military plane for a undisclosed (was known after the visit) trip to some paki airbase where he met the elites for a couple hrs, had the regulation lunch of peshawari naan, gosht and nihari and flew back to wherever AF1 was waiting for him in gulf or germany.

entire rawalpindi was placed under curfew for a few hrs during this event - such is the love for their major and generous benefactor among the lay people.

pak is no different from various latin and south american american controlled banana republics in theory - except that is has a larger population than all of them combined, far more jihadi, a loose cannon, hurts all its neighbours and is nuclear armed with the full backing of a P5 member(china).

I think Pak is beyond the ability or resources of US to 'control' . it is evident from US history of attempting to bribe the elite and keep the lid on.

we ourself need to find ways to keep the chaos in pakistan at boiling level and target them in every dept like rice, cotton, tools etc.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 07 Nov 2010 10:27

How are the biraders across the western border reacting so far?.......

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 07 Nov 2010 10:29

^The Chinese should have nothing to say about Obama's visit to India.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 07 Nov 2010 12:27

Singha,

Are you sure it was Bush2 or was it Bubba Clinton when he visited India and then did the subterfuge visit to Pukistan?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Nov 2010 12:30

my memory could be wrong, but the basic concept is right.

where is st. xavier's college - mumbai or delhi ? he is giving a live speech to students there now.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Nov 2010 12:38

Anant wrote:Singha,

Are you sure it was Bush2 or was it Bubba Clinton when he visited India and then did the subterfuge visit to Pukistan?

In fact, both of them did that.

Bill Clinton hesitantly visited Pakistan for four hours on March 25, 2000, refused to be photographed along with the military dictator Gen. Musharraf, and addressed its people directly on television from a fortified airbase, an unprecedented step for a head of state, especially a close ally like the US. The US was so terrified of terrorist attacks on the President’s Airforce One, that he eventually travelled from Oman in an unmarked Gulfstream preceded by a decoy plane.

It was no better when Pres. George Bush visited Pakistan in early March, 2006. His AirForce One landed at Pakistan’s Chaklala military airbase with its landing lights switched off and blinds of windows drawn down. The President and his wife stepped out of an Emergency hatch with an internal ladder to present as small a target to snipers as possible. The First Couple decided to stay in the Ambassador’s residence rather than stay in a hotel. The Pakistani President and Prime Minister were advised not to come to the Airport to receive them in order to minimize reprisal attacks. The President stayed for hardly 24 hours in Islamabad and just visited the Presidential palace.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 07 Nov 2010 13:00

Singha wrote:my memory could be wrong, but the basic concept is right.

where is st. xavier's college - mumbai or delhi ? he is giving a live speech to students there now.

Obama is in Mumbai and St. Xaviers college is right next door to Cama and Albless Hospital near CST railway station. Infact Kamte, Salaskar & Karkare got shot down by kasab right outside the Xavier's college barely 10 feet from its east side. I suppose college might have been selected as a venue as a symbolic gesture same as staying at The Taj.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Nov 2010 13:18

Water will find its own level and Indian and US businessmen will find an equitable means of doing business,mutually beneficial to each other,much in the manner that the US does business with China.

However,as far as geopolitics and regional and Asian security is concerned,the US and India have diametrically opposed viewpoints.As the distinguished panel consisting of def. experts and former service chiefs said on the TOI channel,with the secret document and the clauses exposed,we do NOT have a strategic relationship with the US as are NOT allies.America's eternal sponsorship of the Paki military will dstroy any chance of a meaningful military relationship with the US,also because the grovelling terms to which India must sign on if it wants US high-tech def. wares is simply-in the unanimous words of the panel members,"unacceptable" to India.If we sign on,we will become another vassal state of the US,where the US military can inspect its wares at any Indian def. establishment and also order it around as to when and how these weapons can be used! Is ther anything more humiliating than this?

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 07 Nov 2010 14:04

Following is the the link to the timesnow video on the objectionable clauses in the defence agreements US is interested in.

No wonder India is not signing. But it goes to show how US deals with all countries including India.

http://www.timesnow.tv/Americas-six-cla ... 357725.cms

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2010 16:40

Wondering what's the significance of obama visiting the humayun's tomb?

Wouldn't it have been better for this self confessed ardent admirer of gandhi to have visited Raj Ghat and paid his homage there??

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 07 Nov 2010 16:43

^Scheduled for Monday

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Nov 2010 16:47

He is also visiting Raj Ghat tomorrow morning.

The news channels are depicting the visit to Humayun's tomb as recognizing India's cultural heritage. B***s**t of the fist order. Whoever told Mr. Obama that Humayun represented Indian culture.

James B · Post by **James B** » 07 Nov 2010 17:01

Obama's St. Xavier's College meeting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc0y343PnbA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXgnTydmbWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jttFhGXlbGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-zYkGQGhXc

Rodrigo Rojas · Post by **Rodrigo Rojas** » 07 Nov 2010 17:46

on a lighter note, it's surprising that both the mr and mrs can keep up to the beat.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiap ... index.html

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 07 Nov 2010 17:49

There is sheer mayhem over Om baba's comment that a "stable pakistan is in India's interest and hence the onus is on India to make sure it happens"

Lot of praise for Pakistan (large country great ally etc etc)

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 07 Nov 2010 17:52

Bill Clinton's visit to Pakistan was interesting indeed.

He was heading for the C-17 parked at the tramak, with two other people. He then ducked below the nose of the C-17 in front of the nosewheel and went off to another smaller aircraft hidden beyond the C-17. Hillary went off in the Air Force One.

Then the small jet went off to chaklala in Pindi, and when the visit was done, Pee TV played a RECORDED speech of bill clinton, so that all the 170 million people of pakistan would be glued to their TV sets, even as his plane took off from chaklala to either Dubai, airbase in Qatar or Germany.

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 07 Nov 2010 18:03

This guy has been pompus bullshit right from the time he voted against Indian Nuclear pact. He should be shown his place if not the door..
But alas who in delli has the gulab jamuns inpair these days to do the right thing...

Hariprasad · Post by **Hariprasad** » 07 Nov 2010 18:17

On November 7, while interacting with 300-odd students of Mumbai’s St Xavier’s college, Obama’s foreign policy was brought into focus by a couple of searching questions from the students who sought his views on the Afghanistan conundrum and why the US was desisting from declaring Pakistan a terrorist state. He described Pakistan as "an enormous country" (whatever he meant by it!) and said that Pakistan was a strategically important country not only for the US but for the entire world.

http://www.eurasiareview.com/2010110795 ... ntive.html

What kind of answer is that...
Enough of this BS.

Can we give him a boot already ?
In other news PM Singh, Maino and the rest of the kangaroo cabal are prostrating before the messiah in the airport. Disgusting

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Nov 2010 18:18

ShivaS wrote:This guy has been pompus bullshit right from the time he voted against Indian Nuclear pact. He should be shown his place if not the door..
But alas who in delli has the gulab jamuns inpair these days to do the right thing...

Maybe Rahul baba (Jai Ho!), but mother has those under lock and key.
Don't worry. Obama will be defeated in Nov. 2012. He has no clue and the opposition will only cause gridlock in the US congress since Obama is no where near as practical as Bill Clinton. For right now, respect is given to the office of POTUS.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Nov 2010 18:20

I am thinking this is an ill-timed visit for an American prez after losing a mid term election at home. His words will not be taken seriously at all. He should have postponed the visit to gain lost ground first. Fox friends will do him to death.

The most powerless American President ever!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 07 Nov 2010 19:02

Well, frustoo republicans in 2008 were doomily predicting that sri obama's admin would be carter redux. So far, he hasn't shown any intent of letting his critics down, seems like ...

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 07 Nov 2010 19:11

SSridhar wrote:He is also visiting Raj Ghat tomorrow morning.

The news channels are depicting the visit to Humayun's tomb as recognizing India's cultural heritage. B***s**t of the fist order. Whoever told Mr. Obama that Humayun represented Indian culture.

What remains in Delhi of India's cultural heritage anyway! Its Turko-Afghan-Mongol-Brit!

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 07 Nov 2010 19:16

http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/
***
never Forget lest we get duped by Ombaba again...

Obama would nuke the Indo-US deal
Published: Saturday, Jan 5, 2008, 9:54 IST
By Arati R Jerath

NEW DELHI: Barack Obama is better known here for trying to obstruct the Indo-US nuclear deal with a “killer” amendment to the Hyde Act.

The Hyde Act, passed by the US Congress in 2006, is a legal provision that enables the US Administration to negotiate and conclude an agreement for nuclear trade with India. Obama was one of the 17 Democrat Senators who proposed amendments that would have struck down the Act if any of them had been passed.

His amendment opposed giving India the right to build strategic fuel reserves for its imported nuclear reactors. As it turned out, the Obama amendment was rejected along with the other “killer” proposals and the Hyde Act passed into law.

With Obama’s star rising, the pro-deal lobby in India has yet another reason to worry. The Indo-US nuclear agreement has already lost momentum in the wake of strident Left opposition and a string of recent electoral defeats for the Congress.

After the Iowa caucus result, the government can be expected to show even less enthusiasm to proceed as it goes into “wait-and-watch’’ mode for the outcome of the US presidential race.

Historically, the winner of 5 of the past 7 competitive Democratic caucuses in Iowa has gone on to become the party’s presidential candidate. Bill Clinton was one of the exceptions. He lost in Iowa but won comprehensively in New Hampshire, which comes next, and then went on to become President.

The field is thus open still, although Obama’s huge victory margin and the fact that he pushed his main rival, Hillary Clinton, to third place, have given him a strong lead.

As election fever mounts in the US, the government here will find itself walking the tightrope between adopting a cautious approach and maintaining the tempo of the bilateral relationship.

This is precisely what pro-deal lobbyists feared as they pushed to hurry the formalities through by end-2007 so that the agreement would not run into the complications of the US election calendar.

Although Indian negotiators are expected to come back this weekend with a safeguards agreement from the International Atomic Energy Agency, the document may remain just a piece of paper as it becomes the subject of lengthy discussions with the Left.

“Obama’s foreign policy views are unknown,” acknowledged former foreign secretary Lalit Mansingh who has been supporting the nuclear deal. “He’s been saying that it’s time for a review of domestic and foreign policies.

But it would be unwise for us to go slow now because the Bush Administration will assume that we are searching for excuses to back out of the deal. After all, we will have to deal with the present Administration for one more year.”
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_ob ... al_1143278

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 Nov 2010 20:13

Hari Seldon wrote:Well, frustoo republicans in 2008 were doomily predicting that sri obama's admin would be carter redux. So far, he hasn't shown any intent of letting his critics down, seems like ...

Dems are gone for now and I am not sure if Obamba will even win his second term. Good riddance of the most heartful supporters of the Pakis in massa.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 07 Nov 2010 21:13

India has a leverage in the transactions; it does not have to bow down meekly. India has an upper hand, truth be told it is Unkil who has come with the proverbial begging bowl. India should decide what to give, when to give and how to give the alms seeking Unkil.

Indian leaders should not bend when it is not necessary to bend.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 07 Nov 2010 21:36

Backdrop of US business interests in India:
1. http://www.buyusa.gov/india/en/fuse.html {featured US exporters}
2. http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/sta ... c5330.html {USA exports to India - break down of items with value}
3. Top 10 exports from USA. Source

For the 5-month period ending May 2010, the following U.S. exports to India had the highest dollar values.

1. Aircraft and spacecraft plus parts … US$1.05 billion, up 210.4% from 2010 (14% of U.S. exports to India)
2. Non-industrial diamonds … $620 million, up 129.6% (8.3%)
3. Diammonium phosphate fertilizer … $495.5 million, up 9.1% (6.6%)
4. Non-monetary gold … $206.5 million, up 37.3% (2.8%)
5. Coal tar oils … $204.3 million, up 19.4% (2.7%)
6. Bituminous coal, not agglomerated … $200.1 million, down 51.1% (2.7%)
7. Voice, images and data machines including routers … $156.3 million, up 41.1% (2.1%)
8. Iron waste and scrap … $129.2 million, up 52.2% (1.7%)
9. Large gas turbines (output over 5,000 kilowatts) … $126.4 million, up 35.6% (1.7%)
10. Jewelry other than silver … $117.1 million, down 16.9% (1.6%).

Among the top 10 American exports to India, 8 had percentage sales increases as of May 2010.

4. Background from Gov site: Source

U.S. MERCHANDISE EXPORTS TO INDIA

• U.S. merchandise exports to India quadrupled between 2002 and 2009, surpassing $16.4 billion. In 2010, that figure increased 18% compared to the same period in 2009 thus far totaling $12.7 billion. Increases in exports have supported job growth, particularly important during the recent weakness of the domestic U.S. market.

• India is increasingly becoming a significant trading partner having climbed from the 29th to 17th largest market for U.S. exports.

• Top U.S. export categories in 2009 included machinery ($2.3 billion), aircraft and parts ($2.3 billion), electric machinery ($1.3 billion) and fertilizers ($1.1 billion). Strong figures in these categories indicate considerable potential for growth in U.S. exports in a wide variety of industries.

• States throughout the nation benefit from exports to India. In 2009, more than half reported merchandise export shipments to India above $100 million. The largest state exporters of merchandise to India included: California ($2.2 billion), Texas ($1.9 billion), Washington ($1.8 billion), New York ($1.5 billion), and Florida ($1.0 billion). The wide geographic distribution of state exporters suggests that trade ties with India are beneficial to people throughout the country.

U.S. SERVICES EXPORTS TO INDIA

• U.S. services exports to India more than tripled over the past several years, increasing from $3.3 billion in 2002 to more than $10.5 billion in 2008. The rapid growth in these exports has been supported by increased FDI from India to the United States and the growing merchandise trade relationship between the two countries.

•In 2008, the largest U.S. service export category to India was the travel sector at $3.0 billion. Other major categories included education services ($2.7 billion) and business, professional and technical services ($1.1 billion). Indian students are now the largest group of foreign students within the United States and represent a major growth market for American institutions of education.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 07 Nov 2010 21:49

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11 ... alks-trip/
President Barack Obama will encourage India to press forward slowly toward a rapprochement with Pakistan, and he will defend U.S. efforts toward peace in Afghanistan during a speech to India's Parliament here on Monday, senior administration officials said Sunday.

This trip and this guy is becoming a complete waste of space and time as far as both India and US is concerned.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Nov 2010 21:58

SSridhar wrote:He is also visiting Raj Ghat tomorrow morning.

The news channels are depicting the visit to Humayun's tomb as recognizing India's cultural heritage. B***s**t of the fist order. Whoever told Mr. Obama that Humayun represented Indian culture.

Could visting Humayun's tomb be a virtual TSP visit? India TSP equal equal onlee.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 07 Nov 2010 22:09

obamas shared dinner table with manmohans, & both the gandhis & PranabM.
Why does RG have to be at the table? why not Advani.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2010 22:15

SwamyG wrote:India has a leverage in the transactions; it does not have to bow down meekly. India has an upper hand, truth be told it is Unkil who has come with the proverbial begging bowl. India should decide what to give, when to give and how to give the alms seeking Unkil.

Indian leaders should not bend when it is not necessary to bend.

SwamyG ji,

This is exactly when our heritage dictates that we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 07 Nov 2010 22:25

O'baba addressed a bunch of business leaders for 20 minutes at the Hotel Trident in Mumbai yesterday and scooted away immediately after without taking any questions.

What is interesting is there was a business summit with key American (GE was present among others) & the same Indian business leaders above before O'baba's speech. Directly, from a CEO friend who attended this event:

A very prominent Indian business leader (I am not mentioning his name) of an Indian multi national was in full form and he let it rip in front of all: "When I was studying in the US, the image of India was people with out stretched hands. Now I am in India and its the American's who have come to India with out stretched hands". There was stunned silence in the room with the US government official's squirming.

Another US business leader was pleading: "Please give us the 1 trillion dollar worth of contracts". I have no idea what this means.

The media was also present but I don't know if these have been reported or suppressed.

O'baba is a good speaker as long he has tele-prompters. He was all at sea and cut a sorry figure during the Q&A at Xaviers.

The worst was: "A stable Pakistan is in India's interest" & "More have died in Pakistan due to terrorism than in India". It was wrong to expect him to deliver on this issue and it is wrong to continue to have this expectation.

Also, during Q&A time he seemed disconnected from the Xaviers audience. Probably, speaking to the American audience.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Nov 2010 22:53

rahulm, Thanks for eye witness reports. The US press hasn't covered the trip atleast on TV. CNN reports only the bit about terrorism and Taj hotel. Faux News about the cost of the trip to India only. Very jaundiced reporting full of bile. Looks like they didn't get McCain's views on India.
The CCNEWS a PRC channel in its Asia Today segment did cover his visit to the Gandhi Bhavan I guess.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/index.html

Videos

The US has drunk so much of the own p*ss on terrorism that they repeat the chants to victims of terrorism.

TSP has suffered more than India from terrorism begs the reasons that terrorist killings in TSP are by Pakis themselves while the terrorist killings in India are also by Pakis and people under their control. And this terror machine is kept alive by US in their shortsightedness. In the 90s they sued to say we will pull away the nuclear armed pit bull you just sign NPT. And by the way give up Kashmir to keep the pit bull happy.

Now the refrain is give up Kashmir so the pit bull releases he grip on our behinds in Afghanistan.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 07 Nov 2010 22:57

I've been having this thought in my head since I heard a few names on the guest list to the MMS-BHO Dinner in New Delhi, and I really want to share it with everyone here, even in the anticipation of some scorn.

It seems that the media/powers that be has adapted Shabana Azmi and Javed Akhtar as the perfect examples of the moderate, secular, well-to-do Muslim representatives who can be called on at any event to discuss the Muslim secular view. Of course, it helps that they speak very good English. I am sorry but I just can't see any other reason for them to be at the dinner.

Also, would love to hear your opinions on inviting Omar Abdullah - the possible method behind it, and what they could possibly talk about.

Also, VC of Jamia Milia Islamia University, Najeeb Jung is also invited. He's a retired IAS officer and an energy expert.

Found out this blog on googling, called Obama Foodorama. Lists some of the people on the guest list.