Pres. Obama's visit.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 07 Nov 2010 23:10

LK Advani was not invited? Deemed too communal to sit amongst sickulars?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Nov 2010 23:16

^^^Is there any high level BJP opposition member attending the meeting/dinner with Obama?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Nov 2010 23:16

ramana wrote:rahulm, Thanks for eye witness reports. The US press hasn't covered the trip atleast on TV. CNN reports only the bit about terrorism and Taj hotel. Faux News about the cost of the trip to India only. Very jaundiced reporting full of bile. Looks like they didn't get McCain's views on India.
The CCNEWS a PRC channel in its Asia Today segment did cover his visit to the Gandhi Bhavan

I was hoping Fareed Bhai would do a show on Obama's trip and grill some big wigs on US support to TSPA and TSPA's failure to crack down on LET. But instead its about US economy. He has on another Indian, guy Raghu Rajan. No talk of Obama's trip.

But some cognitive dissonance I am having. Two Indian guys on US TV pontificating on what needs to be done to revive US economy. Add Paul Krugman, a Jewish guy, and boy will the Glen Becks and his tea party Nazi brigade must be going into a tizze with their wild conspiracy theories on "them" taking over "our" country.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2010 23:24

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Is there any high level BJP opposition member attending the meeting/dinner with Obama?

Thought I heard Times Now reporting that both advani and jaitley were at the dinner.?

These guys are required in case the nuke liability bill has to be amended.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Nov 2010 23:40

What does Amir Khan represent to be present at the dinner?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2010 23:45

CRamS wrote:What does Amir Khan represent to be present at the dinner?

Same as the others, like minded strident sickular opinion.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Nov 2010 23:51

I don't know if there is a massive press corps travelling with Obama. But if those s#it heads who are so full of themselves hijack the press conf asking Obama only about domestic issues and insulting India on her own soil by completely ignoring questions about India US issues, I hope MMS has courage to cut such a circus short. Recall, the US media chutiyas always insult foreign dignitaries (except of course someone from Western Europe or someone from Israel like Bibi) during a press conference by obsessing on some local crap like Monica's BJ to Clinton or Sarah Palin's pink underwear.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 08 Nov 2010 00:20

"Watched Arnab Goswami's The Newshour which had a panel of eminent personalities like Retd ACM Krishna Swamy, Ajit Doval, Leela Ponnappa, Adm. Bhagawat accompanied with Maroof Raza. I was delighted to watch them beating Hussien's speech at Taj left and right...and emotions were ruffled when some document about MoD becoming a subsidiary to Pentagon went public.....awesome journalism by Arnab Goswami"

Hi, could you please provide the specific link? I couldn't find it through Google. It would be really nice to see the video.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Nov 2010 00:33

Of late Arnab Goswami of Times Now seems to get into convoluted arguments with pakis invited by him to pontificate on his channel.

Why does he insist on inviting them and let them air their terrorist and lame views?

The pakis who appear on this channel seem to have decided to be extremely nasty and rude.

It is becoming embarrassing to watch goswami and the pakis arguing on the channel.

Right now we have an angry paki yelling his head off with goswami.

Wasn't the Times group involved in some aman ki tamasha nonsense? How does it explain goswami going off the reservation??

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Nov 2010 00:39

Whose idea was it to have a Q&A? India's or USA's ?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Nov 2010 00:41

Arnab Goswami got his 10 mins of fame with us on BR during Mumbai and we hoped he would carry the nationalist toruch, but after watching him many times now, I feel he is nothing more than another loud-mouthed papprazi with no substance. Ditto that other guy on the same channel who screams and announces headlines as though there is some breaking news. All these guys blindly imitate US media personalities except that there is no strident nationalism oozing out from the likes of say Bill O'Rielly & Co.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Nov 2010 00:48

Watch Obama doing a subtle equal equal in response to that student's question on TSP. He said TSP has extremist elements within it, and diluted it by saying, obvious TSP is not the only country having extremists. Subtle equal equal signal sent to TSP RAPE that he is not dissing them.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Nov 2010 00:51

chetak wrote:
SwamyG wrote:India has a leverage in the transactions; it does not have to bow down meekly. India has an upper hand, truth be told it is Unkil who has come with the proverbial begging bowl. India should decide what to give, when to give and how to give the alms seeking Unkil.

Indian leaders should not bend when it is not necessary to bend.
SwamyG ji,

This is exactly when our heritage dictates that we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I don't think it is our heritage, it is the wrong understanding of the heritage. India gets wrapped into the "foreign hype" easily and let us not even get started on our media. India still has good leaders and people, let us hope they are manning the right posts at the right time.

India should ask "what is in it for us?" in the transactions. If BRFites can ask questions, I am sure there are people in GoI who will ask. Let us hope they are asking those questions.

Why doesn't GoI publicly question USA on unkil's help to Pakistan? Public posturing has its own benefits, like putting Unkil on backfoot. Wouldn't there by some join statement after the 3 day love affair? Let us see if MMS utilizes the opportunity. If not anything it will at least help in getting better deals.

Obama and the USA media are talking about this trip as creating jobs for USA, exports, sales ityadi. That is their narrative. What is GoI and Indian media's narrative?

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 08 Nov 2010 01:08

Obama is treated as an ex-president by US and European media.........................due to midterm elections. I would be not surprised if Time, Newsweek completely sideline his visit. Altough I suspect that Obama is going to Afghanistan (on surprise visit) and Zardari will be shipped as well. Thus equal-equal........Baki happy,India happy,Obama happy,Karzai happy,Pentagon happy,aaam American happy and contractors happy. And GPS next Sunday wil go gaga on his achievements in Kabul

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Nov 2010 01:08

SwamyG wrote:Whose idea was it to have a Q&A? India's or USA's ?

The Mumbai program of the POTUS seems to be entirely US generated. The chosen setting for the Q&A was a minority run college where he mentioned his own work with the church and said that his pastors had said " you can't preach to someone with an empty stomach" He seems to be pushing several agendas and addressing diverse audiences, all at once. His paki plug was rehearsed and stilted. May be zardari even wrote it for him.

The Indians would have made do with veena vaadan and cultural shows with dancing tribals / underprivileged kids like they did with the FLOTUS.

Doing business with obama is turning out like getting teeth extracted without benefit of anesthetic and that too by an unqualified "dentist".

MMS must have all dentures!

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 08 Nov 2010 01:12

Enjoy onlee -

Arnab versus the State of Pukistan!

Debate: Commitment for UNSC seat? - Part 1

Debate: Commitment for UNSC seat? - Part 2

Debate: Obama evasive on Pakistan

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 08 Nov 2010 01:42

rahulm wrote:O'baba addressed a bunch of business leaders for 20 minutes at the Hotel Trident in Mumbai yesterday and scooted away immediately after without taking any questions.

What is interesting is there was a business summit with key American (GE was present among others) & the same Indian business leaders above before O'baba's speech. Directly, from a CEO friend who attended this event:

A very prominent Indian business leader (I am not mentioning his name) of an Indian multi national was in full form and he let it rip in front of all: "When I was studying in the US, the image of India was people with out stretched hands. Now I am in India and its the American's who have come to India with out stretched hands". There was stunned silence in the room with the US government official's squirming.

Well, that apparently was Anand Mahindra and he is quoted as:

"Some critics in the Indian media said the U.S. is pushing too aggressively for India to open up. But Anand Mahindra, managing director of Indian auto-to-tractor conglomerate Mahindra Group said India, which in the past had to seek foreign assistance, should be happy it is now in a position to help the U.S. economy by granting access to its own large market."

"It's nice to see a hand being outstretched toward us for a change.."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

A bit different in tone from what your friend reported. Read it for yourself and see if you think the same. AM would have stupid to take the tone attributed to him. Mahindra are trying very hard to penetrate the low-end tractor market in the US--he doesn't need this attribution picked and broadcast by his competitors.

Just a worry that the Commie/Chipaks have been in full flow to disrupt Obama's visit by enraging Indian public opinion through disinformation on such things as Michele Obama's visit to sex workers (never was in the works) that cause a lot of anguish on BR.

IMVHO, Obama is being boxed in by the Pentagon which is ready to scapegoat him for their miscalculations. Gates/Mullen/Petraeus wanted Obama to make a pit stop in Pakiland because Kayani demanded it and Obama has had to walk on eggshells. I am hoping though that in his address to Parliament, he takes a stronger stand.

One retort though about this line in the above link:

"It may be surprising for some of you to hear this, but the country that has the biggest stake in Pakistan's success is India,"

Well, there's one other country that has an even bigger stake: It's Pakistan. If their stake is lower than India's it can't work can it?

India's trifecta for Obama's visit was: 1) Lifting of dual-use controls--done except for DAE which makes no sense if American companies are to sell equipment, 2) Support for Indian membership in various international bodies (Wasenaar, NSG) etc--done and 3) UNSC seat --not done but given some major deals that generate 100k US jobs in addition to the signed agreements this will also be a check.

That's not bad IMHO

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Nov 2010 01:50

Pulikeshi wrote:Enjoy onlee -

Arnab versus the State of Pukistan!

Debate: Commitment for UNSC seat? - Part 1

Debate: Commitment for UNSC seat? - Part 2

Debate: Obama evasive on Pakistan

I think Arnab does do a good job, so I take back some of my earlier criticism of him. While he kept rambling around with the Pakis, Arnab does succintly and eloquently point out that US has an obligation to force TSP to stop terror against India. And he repeatedly forces this point. Good job.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 08 Nov 2010 02:07

CRamS wrote:
Pulikeshi wrote:Enjoy onlee -

Arnab versus the State of Pukistan!

Debate: Commitment for UNSC seat? - Part 1

Debate: Commitment for UNSC seat? - Part 2

Debate: Obama evasive on Pakistan
I think Arnab does do a good job, so I take back some of my earlier criticism of him. While he kept rambling around with the Pakis, Arnab does succintly and eloquently point out that US has an obligation to force TSP to stop terror against India. And he repeatedly forces this point. Good job.

I hope he catches a creep from CON party and nails them if our Govt. has any obligation to stop TSP terror and retaliate against them. The Nikkammas and the shroud act like clueless bums with no self pride or backbone to stand up. No wonder the US doesn't care. If we don't care, why would they care?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Nov 2010 02:29

equal equal at its vintage best

Indian officials have accused Pakistan's spy agency of helping orchestrate the 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai, while Pakistan sees Indian ties to Afghanistan as an attempt to encircle it.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 08 Nov 2010 03:40

Where is the meat for us, asks India Inc

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_wh ... nc_1463624

“Talking about a partnership based on equality is fine but what about the ground reality?” asked industrialist Rahul Bajaj.

Speaking to DNA soon after Obama’s address, he said, “You know, I was talking to Anand Mahindra and he said, ‘Pehle hum maangte the aura ab woh maang rahe hain’ (First, we were asking and now they are). And this is our position of strength that the US is waking up to. How can they ignore 1.1 billion people and their aspirations, since that will open doors to markets for them?”

Others also expressed their displeasure. The head of software major, who preferred to remain anonymous, said, “Apart from fleeting references to our concerns about the US’ protectionist policies on outsourcing, there was nothing.

All the bluster on deals will only assuage American voters but where is the meat for us? I’m amazed that the US can keep bringing up restrictions by India for US companies and conveniently forget the increase in visa fees to raise an $600 million to beef up security on the US-Mexico border.”

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Nov 2010 04:20

chetak wrote: Whose idea was it to have a Q&A? India's or USA's ?

The Mumbai program of the POTUS seems to be entirely US generated. The chosen setting for the Q&A was a minority run college where he mentioned his own work with the church and said that his pastors had said " you can't preach to someone with an empty stomach"
Doing business with obama is turning out like getting teeth extracted without benefit of anesthetic and that too by an unqualified "dentist".

USIBC is a CIA front and is involved in most of the inter govt commission

India can become America's largest trading partner: USIBC‎ - 9 hours ago
The USIBC is the premier bilateral business advocacy organisation between ... Business seems to have been at the top of Obama's agenda for his India trip

http://news.google.com/news/story?q=USI ... CBgQqgIwAA

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 08 Nov 2010 04:44

American reactions to Presidential visit

The US media also pored over details regarding gas and steam turbine sales and a diesel locomotive manufacturing venture. The Wall Street Journal highlighted Obama’s Mumbai visit as a “charm offensive with business” noting that White House officials sent the chief executives of PepsiCo, Honeywell International, McGraw-Hill and AES Corp to brief the press before any senior administration official spoke.

CNN noted that as Asia’s third largest economy and one of the world’s fastest growing markets, India is high on Obama’s goal list to build a “defining” partnership. The Washington Post said Obama’s decision to support India’s membership to the 46-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) is “among the clearest indications yet that he has heard some of India’s complaints”.

US non-proliferation groups condemned Obama’s support for India to join the NSG — established 35 years ago in response to India’s first nuclear test — as another undeserved reward that will undermine those goals.

Commentrators say that a whirl of deal-making and diplomacy from Tokyo to Delhi is giving the US an opportunity to reassert itself in a region where America’s eclipse by China has been viewed as inevitable. The significance of the trip to Asia by Obama is not lost on anyone: It will take him to Asia’s big democracies, India, Indonesia, South Korea and Japan, skirting authoritarian China. Those countries and others have taken steps — with varying degrees of candour — to blunt China’s assertiveness in the region, pointed out analysts.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 08 Nov 2010 04:48

If I were somebody who admires M. K. Gandhi, then I would be visiting his Ashram in Ahmedabad and not something in Delhi. The stuff in Delhi is for diplomats and not for admirers.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 08 Nov 2010 05:26

“Talking about a partnership based on equality is fine but what about the ground reality?” asked industrialist Rahul Bajaj.

Speaking to DNA soon after Obama’s address, he said, “You know, I was talking to Anand Mahindra and he said, ‘Pehle hum maangte the aura ab woh maang rahe hain’ (First, we were asking and now they are). And this is our position of strength that the US is waking up to. How can they ignore 1.1 billion people and their aspirations, since that will open doors to markets for them?”

Rahul Bajaj is not someone who should be pontificating on open doors. Read up on how this guy kept us in the scooter age by keeping competition out.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Nov 2010 05:29

Sanku wrote:There is sheer mayhem over Om baba's comment that a "stable pakistan is in India's interest and hence the onus is on India to make sure it happens"

Lot of praise for Pakistan (large country great ally etc etc)

As my fourth cousin says

A strong and stable Pakistan is needed for everyone's interest to be paid back

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 08 Nov 2010 05:44

Anujan wrote:
Sanku wrote:There is sheer mayhem over Om baba's comment that a "stable pakistan is in India's interest and hence the onus is on India to make sure it happens"

Lot of praise for Pakistan (large country great ally etc etc)
As my fourth cousin says

A strong and stable Pakistan is needed for everyone's interest to be paid back

A strong, stable, prosperous Pakistan is in Pakistan's interest. If they don't get it, then neither India nor anyone from this planet can save from themselves. Putting it in Obama's terms: The country that has the biggest take in Pakistan's stability is Pakistan.

If they don't care, we can't save them from themselves and need to destroy them before they can wound us.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 08 Nov 2010 05:47

Cosmo_R wrote:A strong, stable, prosperous Pakistan is in Pakistan's interest.

Nope. A strong, stable and prosprous Pakistan is in Pakistan Army's interest. Unfortunately that conflicts with real Pakistani Army's interests and is not possible.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 08 Nov 2010 06:21

Hope this sets things right:

1. An unstable Pakistan is in the interest of TSPA - Otherwise no bakseesh for Kiyani

2. A stable Pakistan is in the interest of Pakistani Civil Society - but does not see like
must civility is left in it for centuries now. They have been selling themselves out short.

3. No Pakistan is in the interest of India, but for the myopia that seems to prevelant
in the gerontocracy that is running India that desired peace at the cost to self.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 08 Nov 2010 07:51

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"Watched Arnab Goswami's The Newshour which had a panel of eminent personalities like Retd ACM Krishna Swamy, Ajit Doval, Leela Ponnappa, Adm. Bhagawat accompanied with Maroof Raza. I was delighted to watch them beating Hussien's speech at Taj left and right...and emotions were ruffled when some document about MoD becoming a subsidiary to Pentagon went public.....awesome journalism by Arnab Goswami"

Hi, could you please provide the specific link? I couldn't find it through Google. It would be really nice to see the video.

Apologies for a delayed response. The Newshour Edition I was talking about is not up on their website. But what surprised me was the utter silence on a defense document proposed by Pentagon to MoD. This is not about BECA OR CISMOA.This MoU document singed by Lt. Robert Shea had some 8 clauses out of which 6 were audacious, outrageous and undermines our sovereignty over our communication systems. I vaguely remember that bottom line of that document is "The military communication systems procured from US will be installed and maintained by US personnel and this will be followed by a periodic inspection of the procured system from US by India". And any further development or improvisation on US supplied equipment by India is restricted. No prototype should be used for R&D. Equipment acquired from US cannot be used without having prior permission from US/Pentagon in case of any conflict.

....they said US has same parameters of "Interoperability" with NATO nations and others like Japan and SoKo which are US allies which India is not and India places its strategic interests over that of USA's...so we should decline such proposals.

Adm Bhagwat said comm systems maintain secrecy levels of our operational readiness it should be a strict no-no to such deals. Meanwhile Ajit and Leela were against anything that effects our decision making and its sovereignty. Some Chaudhry (P'ably an Army guy cuz of his whiskers) says Americans do not sell anything to any foreign nation without such agreements being signed. If Nato, Japan and SoKo had no problems signing them..that doesn't mean we don't have problem and if we have problem just don't get US equipment...why make fuss?

Krishna Swamy nicely pointed out to the panelists with some examples like we got Su-30s and Mirages from Russia and France without their comm systems....we had our own comm systems on them. If we wanted their comm systems they'll also ask us to sign on a plethora of documents. First of all we don't want anybody's comm system. Apart from being vulnerable to "armtwisting" we will kill our own indigenous comm systems development. We want a comm system that is universal to our platforms....we can' have different platforms with diff comm systems? so if we get C-17s or C-130s it will be our comm systems and our frequencies will be classified. In case of humanitarian, UN mission or Joint exercises we have some frequencies reserved for that purpose. He flatly said there is no question of signing any paper which compromises our operational readiness. But the whole point of Arnab in this edition was Pentagon is secretly pushing India to sign on this MoU document. He was highlighting "The Intent" of Pentagon in pushing India to sign this document which was very lightly touched by Ajit Doval when he said US is on its agenda for a New World Order.

When I was viewing this, I thought this will be the highlight in dailies next day...but nothing showed up...and there was not single whisper about it next day by Arnab in The Newshour or any other channels.

P.S.I am sorry for this naive attempt...I couldn't be more elaborative on this like Prasad or SS or Johann..

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Nov 2010 08:01

Venkarl wrote:

Adm Bhagwat said comm systems maintain secrecy levels of our operational readiness it should be a strict no-no to such deals. Meanwhile Ajit and Leela were against anything that effects our decision making and its sovereignty. Some Chaudhry (P'ably an Army guy cuz of his whiskers) says Americans do not sell anything to any foreign nation without such agreements being signed. If Nato, Japan and SoKo had no problems signing them..that doesn't mean we don't have problem and if we have problem just don't get US equipment...why make fuss?

All systems exported outside US needs a access to breakin by any agencies. This is according to the law.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Nov 2010 08:28

BJP in a fix: To slam him or not

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/BJP-i ... not/708029

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Nov 2010 08:42

What ever Mahindra Jr said or not. Today at a diwali get together here with a bunch of friends, we have made an exact statement unanimously and now that kind of impression is not a celebrity statement anymore. The whole Obamba's India visit is just a flop show so far.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 Nov 2010 08:42

rahulm wrote: A very prominent Indian business leader (I am not mentioning his name) of an Indian multi national was in full form and he let it rip in front of all: "When I was studying in the US, the image of India was people with out stretched hands. Now I am in India and its the American's who have come to India with out stretched hands". There was stunned silence in the room with the US government official's squirming.

Why gratuitously insult the guests? 80% of India still lives on $2 per day or less.

We should smile and nod, but bargain hard.

Edit: saw Cosmo_R's elaboration above.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Nov 2010 08:50

My advise to BJP would be to re-assert Indian interests on every aspect. They don't have to be either pro or anti Obama. Same goes with INC as well.

- Ask for DHC extradition to show American commitment against terrorism. Afterall they have collected thousands of AQ fighters from across the world.

- Ask for their unconditional support for a veto-unsc seat for India to show their respect for democracy (~15% humanity lives in India)

- ask them stopping military aid to Pakistan till Pakistan dismantles it's terrorist infrastructure.

- ask Obama to remove all sanctions on Indian businesses and research institutes to prove American commitment to a open and knoledge based economic world.

Obama's answers to these questions will prove him as either a friend or enemy of india.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Nov 2010 08:54

^ +10.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Nov 2010 09:15

Cosmo_R wrote:
Rahul Bajaj is not someone who should be pontificating on open doors. Read up on how this guy kept us in the scooter age by keeping competition out.

Every businessman tries hard to protect his turf. Don't the US business lobby congress for their interest? Didn't the US banks lobby the congress when the financial reform bill was being passed?

Why bring up Rahul Bajaj's opposition in the past? He was just protecting his business interests then, and he is now. Except this time, it happens to be India Inc's interest as well.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 08 Nov 2010 09:21

Venkarl wrote:Apologies for a delayed response. The Newshour Edition I was talking about is not up on their website.....

America's six clauses to bind India

Venkarl wrote:Some Chaudhry (P'ably an Army guy cuz of his whiskers) says Americans do not sell anything to any foreign nation without such agreements being signed.

General Shankar Roychowdhury, former army chief.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 08 Nov 2010 09:25

Fox News: Obama in India

Obviously the comments are more interesting than the article.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 08 Nov 2010 10:04

^ It ain't over till the 'fat lady sings' - in this case it may be the speech in Parliament

Problem for Sri Obama is that expectations are set very high
Even if he delivers almost everything, what little remains gets highlighted.

Its kind of like watching Animal Planet for too long -
In the wild the oxpecker cleaning teeth of hippos (cooperation for the dense)
occurs for hours, but what is thrilling to watch is a few secs or mins a Cheetah chases a deer.
More appropriately - Lions duking it out