Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

[bala]

^^ Tata is already involved in C295 assembly and L&T is supplying a critical sub-assembled component for Tejas LCA. Bharat Forge may not have aircraft experience.

[ashthor]

Hoping it doesn't goes to the Tata's but to L&T+BEL or BF. Let tata do the screwdrivergiri.

[drnayar]

Breaking news : HAL out of AMCA race

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 893595.cms

AMCA fighter jet programme: Tata, L&T, Bharat Forge in fighter jet race; HAL out

Other than the fact that the three shortlisted companies are in the manufacturing domain, none of the three companies shortlisted for AMCA have any experience in fighter aircraft manufacturing.

Is aircraft manufacturing that easy?

I request aero gurus to throw some light on this and the challenges they can expect.

Not a guru but each company has expertise in niche domains, the end manufacturer will likely be a consortium with one player taking lead integration role. I think AMCA will take Indian aircraft manufacturing capability to the next level

[Kanoji]

Not a guru but each company has expertise in niche domains, the end manufacturer will likely be a consortium with one player taking lead integration role. I think AMCA will take Indian aircraft manufacturing capability to the next level

Thank you sir. I hope this approach takes what you have predicted to fruition.

[YashG]

I'm chuckling with disbelief.

I dont know much abt aircraft manufacturing except that I have followed BF for 20 years now. The news to me feels like some kind of joke...

None of these companies are putting in serious money in aircrafts mfg. (All three are serious manufacturers definitely, serious at defence unlike Adani) but aircraft manufacturing is evolution - institutional memory, talent, supplier linkages etc.

How are these three mfg supposed to just jump to a advanced 5th gen mfg ? Unless they will just do screwdrivergiri!
Will they bulk poach HAL engineers ? (possible ..HAL doesnt pay that well) and setup systems from scratch ....

I dont see any way in which they can do AMCA 6-8 years from now...if they dont start setting up manufacturing lines from now.

Is it again the circus show that MoD is so good at doing ? Because the only thing MoD should be doing - procurement planning, MIC evolution - thats one things MoD is not good at.

[Prem Kumar]

The smart move would have been to keep it as 1 pvt player + HAL

I have no love lost for the latter, but this would de-risk the project if things go sideways with the private player

To de-risk further, the pvt player must be given Tejas-Mk2 orders too + MRO work on Tejas-Mk1, so that they cut their teeth

I applaud the spirit behind this move but strip-the-bandaid may not be the right approach for something as complex as AMCA. It can work for light-tanks

[csaurabh]

I'm chuckling with disbelief.

I dont know much abt aircraft manufacturing except that I have followed BF for 20 years now. The news to me feels like some kind of joke...

None of these companies are putting in serious money in aircrafts mfg. (All three are serious manufacturers definitely, serious at defence unlike Adani) but aircraft manufacturing is evolution - institutional memory, talent, supplier linkages etc.

How are these three mfg supposed to just jump to a advanced 5th gen mfg ? Unless they will just do screwdrivergiri!
Will they bulk poach HAL engineers ? (possible ..HAL doesnt pay that well) and setup systems from scratch ....

I dont see any way in which they can do AMCA 6-8 years from now...if they dont start setting up manufacturing lines from now.

Is it again the circus show that MoD is so good at doing ? Because the only thing MoD should be doing - procurement planning, MIC evolution - thats one things MoD is not good at.

I don't see what the concern is ?
These companies are just manufacturing agencies. They are not like Airbus or Dassault. The design of AMCA is done solely by ADA and no one else.
As long as standards and quality are maintained and the parts are manufactured according to the specification, what is the problem exactly. Actually all these companies (like Tata, Dynamatics etc.) are already involved in Tejas and other projects.
For the record, we are in discussions with ADA to make a specific part which will be going on board the AMCA. Do we have 5th gen aircraft manufacturing experience? No. Do we have the capability to make that specific part? Yes.

[YashG]

I'm chuckling with disbelief.

I dont know much abt aircraft manufacturing except that I have followed BF for 20 years now. The news to me feels like some kind of joke...

None of these companies are putting in serious money in aircrafts mfg. (All three are serious manufacturers definitely, serious at defence unlike Adani) but aircraft manufacturing is evolution - institutional memory, talent, supplier linkages etc.

How are these three mfg supposed to just jump to a advanced 5th gen mfg ? Unless they will just do screwdrivergiri!
Will they bulk poach HAL engineers ? (possible ..HAL doesnt pay that well) and setup systems from scratch ....

I dont see any way in which they can do AMCA 6-8 years from now...if they dont start setting up manufacturing lines from now.

Is it again the circus show that MoD is so good at doing ? Because the only thing MoD should be doing - procurement planning, MIC evolution - thats one things MoD is not good at.

I don't see what the concern is ?
These companies are just manufacturing agencies. They are not like Airbus or Dassault. The design of AMCA is done solely by ADA and no one else.
As long as standards and quality are maintained and the parts are manufactured according to the specification, what is the problem exactly. Actually all these companies (like Tata, Dynamatics etc.) are already involved in Tejas and other projects.
For the record, we are in discussions with ADA to make a specific part which will be going on board the AMCA. Do we have 5th gen aircraft manufacturing experience? No. Do we have the capability to make that specific part? Yes.

Concern is these players have not produced fighter aircraft till now...(not counting scredrivergiri)
In order for them to start producing 5th gen aircraft, there needs to be a ramp up - our MoD / System doesnt understand the concept of rampup...like so many ppl say that LCA Mk2 is intermediate stage for AMCA or HCA but MoD/system doesnt get it...(mostly because they dont want to get it)

So without rampup orders, investment...this plan looks not just risky but some kind of smokescreen ...to may be eventually open up way for these players to import kits from somewhere and call it indigenous like for PULS against Pinaka....

It looks very shady...

[bkswarti]

Breaking news : HAL out of AMCA race

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 893595.cms

AMCA fighter jet programme: Tata, L&T, Bharat Forge in fighter jet race; HAL out

Best news I have read so far. HAL will never change. They slack off all year and then work use needless overtime hours in Q4 for bonuses. Their chalta hai attitude towards defence is a national threat.

I stand with the government on this