Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[Rakesh]

97 Tejas Mk1A order is being pushed only due to delay in Tejas Mk2... That's how I see it...

Any reduction in Tejas numbers (and even MRFA) will result in not achieving 42 squadrons.

40 Mk1s + 83(+97) Mk1As + 200 Tejas Mk2s + 114 MRFA + 272 Su-30MKIs + 36 Rafales = 842 aircraft. Divide that number by an average of 20 aircraft per squadron and it comes to a little over 42 squadrons.

Every Air Chief in the past quarter of a century keeps harping on 42 squadrons to be able to effectively fight a two-front war. The other term that has been mentioned is full spectrum of operations. Regardless of the terminology, every number listed above is required. One can reduce the MRFA (heaven forbid!) and increase the Tejas numbers, but at the end of the day....it has to come to a minimum of 842 combat aircraft.

Note:- Even the ppl who praise Tejas Mk1/1A in public always use the words "it is best in its class"... It is diplomatic way of saying, "It is best in its class, but this is not the class we need..."
The Class IAF wants has always been Mirage 2000 Class, which is Tejas Mk2...

Air HQ is forever chasing after the next best thing.

When Tejas Mk2 comes along, then it will be...Tejas Mk2 numbers should be substituted for AMCA.

When AMCA comes along, then it will be something else. Rinse & Repeat this bokwas logic with every local maal product.

But no Air Chief (or his senior Air Staff) has ever talked about reducing/substituting MRFA numbers for a local product. First it was 126 MMRCA, then when 36 Rafales finally arrived...then it switched to 114 MRFA. What is even more surprising is that that 114 MRFA must be only Rafale and nothing else. Although in all fairness...geopolitically speaking, no other foreign platform makes sense at this stage. The less said about the Fancy Cornish Hen (F-35) the better.

P.S. There is NO aircraft - not Su-30MKI (even with Super Sukhoi upgrade) or the latest Rafale variant - on the horizon that can conduct the ORP role in a cost effective manner like the Tejas Mk1A. After the MiG-21 Bison, it is the Tejas Mk1A that has the next quickest response time. Kudos to the Govt of India for inducting the Mk1A in triple digits. The Tejas - in multiple variants - is India's MRFA. Everything else is a distraction.

[ritesh]

The african saying goes, a bird in hand is better than 2 in bush. Mk1A is ready sans engine ge404, while Mk2 is proposed with ge414.

Atm for 404, atleast ge is playing the ball and has committed to provide the same while no such agreement in place for 414.

So,. logically speaking shouldn't IAF just happy to get something in hand rather than waiting endlessly?

[KSingh]

Regarding ACM Bhadauria's comments about order going to Mk2, instead of Mk1A, I'm quoting my old post from Dec 2023--->
viewtopic.php?p=2609681#p2609681
Requoting here--->

I don’t see any grand conspiracy- who benefits if the MK1A or MK.2 are ordered?

IAF were fiddling with the MK.2 right up to the last moment, 4 different major design specs in since ~2010s? Then Modi or Simone inside his govt made the still unexplained and egregious decision to link full funding of the MK.2 to the 414 TOT deal even after the CCS had cleared the MK.2 leading to 1-2 years of further delays for absolutely nothing

Anyway it is where it is, unserious people make unserious countries and it’s no wonder all IDDM programs are part failures with this buffoonery behind the scenes.

As it is there’s ample room to absorb 200+ MK1A and 200+ MK.2, ANI are weirdly saying as much now. Will it require the IAF abandoning their 30 year old MMRCA dreams? Maybe but they’ll definitely get at least another 2-3 Rafale squadrons off the shelf so maybe towards the end of this decade they can get their wish of absorbing 30-40 jets a year at least for 2-3 years, if they have the capacity to absorb such huge numbers is a different story

[KSingh]

...

It’s quite alarming that to achieve 42 squadrons the SUs are going to have to fly 40+ years each.

I’m still yet to see any actual roadmap outlined by any IAF official on how they get to 42, they claim it is their intent though. They themselves say AMCA will be capped at 126 units

200+ MK1A in that context is a bare minimum and 200 MK.2 isn’t even ambitious, they could easily justify 300, maybe that’s how they get an actual private company to get serious about this game, all the balls in HAL’s court is an unacceptable strategic risk considering they also have the entire helo industry of India to manage

[pravula]

They themselves say AMCA will be capped at 126 units

Its not for IAF to decide. They will have to make do with what the GOI gives them.

[KSingh]

They themselves say AMCA will be capped at 126 units

Its not for IAF to decide. They will have to make do with what the GOI gives them.

I don’t see how that works, it is up to the users to come up with ORBAT.

That said the MK1A seems to be the example that disproves this, more than fair to say that left up to the IAF they would not have inducted a single MK1A today.

[pravula]

Its not for IAF to decide. They will have to make do with what the GOI gives them.

I don’t see how that works, it is up to the users to come up with ORBAT.

That said the MK1A seems to be the example that disproves this, more than fair to say that left up to the IAF they would not have inducted a single MK1A today.

IAF's ORBAT depends on what GOI thinks its priorities are and what it wants IAF to do. If they cannot deliver, GOI will be well within its right to challan every flyboy.

[Prem Kumar]

https://x.com/VarlinPanwar/status/1959534507234582616

Dropping it here, for want of a better thread. This is a first person account of a retired IAF Squadron Leader about HAL Helicopter work-ethic (if one can call it that)

I am surprised that, with this level of effort, they manage to manufacture Tejas, Dhruv etc. Maybe there are some good souls who overwork, to compensate for the lazy (m)asses

[Rakesh]

IAF's ORBAT depends on what GOI thinks its priorities are and what it wants IAF to do. If they cannot deliver, GOI will be well within its right to challan every flyboy.

Govt's Priority = Atmanirbharata

Air HQ's Priority = 114 MRFA (aka Rafale)

Govt is not delivering, but Air HQ has kept the dream alive for the past 25 years. It will soon become a reality.

[Prem Kumar]

IAF is piecemeal ordering (83 + 97 Mk1a or 120 + hopefully 80 Mk2 etc) to conserve funds for MRFA, as Rakesh repeatedly has stated. While never failing to gripe about how they are short on squadrons

MoD returned 12,500 Crores to the MoF in Feb 2025. Though it might have not all come from the IAF, this amount translates to an entire squadron of Tejas-Mk1a (if we discount other capital support equipment and go by per-unit costs alone, this translates to nearly 3 squadrons of Mk1a)

If the IAF wants, it can address the squadron shortage by careful planning & timely bulk ordering

[V_Raman]

After this ALH grounding - IMO IAF is hedging and rightly so - they want to see how things shape up. Maye Helis are inherently more complex - but this is my guess...

[VKumar]

...

Earlier years, BRF used to speak of 62 squadrons, as far as I remember.

[Rakesh]

...

Earlier years, BRF used to speak of 62 squadrons, as far as I remember.

First lets hit 42 squadrons, before aiming to hit 60 or even 50 squadrons.