Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

[Hriday]

Two points

1) Brahmos is a much more versatile & lethal missile thank Oniks - significant intellectual property was developed and deployed to make the missile versatile. Many variations: steep-dive, air-launched, ECCM, land-attack variant etc were all developed for Brahmos that was not available in Oniks

2) There was reverse-tech-transfer. Learnings from Brahmos was ported over to Oniks. The original range of Oniks was not 800 Km. Their Oniks-M variant has the 800 Km range and incorporates technologies that were learnt from Brahmos

Prem Kumar ji, thanks. But the first variant of Oniks is 600-700 km as per several sources including wikipedia. Only recently we developed 450 km range extension of Brahmos. I wonder why?

[Hriday]

https://x.com/DfIlite/status/1979103957 ... LOMMQ&s=19

As per my calculation, if their is radar on ship, let's say aircraft carrier, it's radar will most probably first detected our missile at about 300kms. Missile is flying at 6-7 mach. It will take about would need approximately 147 sec (at Mach 6). AC would cover 2.34kms.

See the DRDO poster of LR-AShM . See the previous X post by the above person to see the enhanced image. In image the missile initially travels a bit over 100 km in altitude and then quickly dive to around 50 km altitude horizontal flight till target. Also remember that Haridas had mentioned that real range would be around 2500-3000km. Link below.
https://x.com/HaridasKukkur/status/1858 ... LFZWQ&s=19

Range of 2500 to 3000 stated in infograph is correct .

So about 4 ton booster solid fuel and 700 kg main rocket.

[Y. Kanan]

Just curious: with entire threads dedicated to things like Light Tanks and Missiles, why isn't there a dedicated thread for drones? Shouldn't there be an "Indian Drone Warfare" thread?

[VinodTK]

Just curious: with entire threads dedicated to things like Light Tanks and Missiles, why isn't there a dedicated thread for drones? Shouldn't there be an "Indian Drone Warfare" thread?

Please see the following link

viewtopic.php?p=2662258&hilit=UAV#p2662258

[bala]

Indian Army to buy 2,408 Nag Mark 2 anti-tank guided missiles


https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 022210243/

In what would be a major success for indigenous weapon systems, the Indian Army is set to place a major order for 2.408 Nag Mark 2anti-tank guided missiles with 107 NAMICA tracked vehicles. The Nag Mark-2, along with the NAMICA 2 vehicle, is an advanced version of the previous system and includes a large number of changes and improvements suggested by the users. "The Indian Army is all set to place orders for 2,408 Nag Mark 2 ATGMS along with 107 NAMICA vehicles. The Defence Ministry is likely to give clearance to the Army proposal in an important meeting of the Defence Acquisition Council scheduled to be held on October 23," defence sources.

The missiles are produced by Bharat Dynamics Limited. The field evaluation trials of the indigenously developed Nag Mark 2, ATGM, which is a third-generation Anti-Tank Fire-and-Forget Guided Missile, were successfully conducted in January this year at Pokhran Field Range in the presence of senior officers of the Indian Army. During the three field trials, the missile systems had destroyed precisely all the targets, maximum and minimum range, validating their firing range.The Nag Missile Carrier version 2 was also evaluated during the trials, and after that, the entire weapon system was readied for induction into the Indian Army by the DRDO along with its production agencies.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Defence Minister Rajnath Singh have been pushing for the induction of indigenous weapon systems to promote self-reliance in military hardware. Army chief General Upendra Dwivedi has also been promoting self-reliance in the force and has been stressing the importance of homegrown weapons to fight wars of future.

[uddu]

Indian Army to buy 2,408 Nag Mark 2 anti-tank guided missiles

Ye kya hua..kaise hua..kab huaaa...

107 NAMICA MK-2 and 2400+ NAG MK-2 order soon

[Hriday]

https://x.com/Sukhwinder104/status/1978 ... Nq9-w&s=19

This technology is what could push the Astra MK2s range beyond 200 KMs. The development of Three Pulse solid rocket motors, would mean that the ER variant of the MK2 would have enough energy to hit maneuverable targets at greater range during the end Game.

The above link contains the schematic of triple pulse with indicator of time for each pulse and interval.
So the recent news about 200 km Astra being readied soon compared to the 160 km dual pulse variant is correct. There could be 2 solid fuel variants, dual or triple pulse. Source given below.

1.
https://x.com/Sukhwinder104/status/1978 ... k3tWQ&s=19
2.
https://x.com/Archit_Ch/status/19781680 ... wClUQ&s=19
3.
https://x.com/Sukhwinder104/status/1978 ... S3Ciw&s=19

[drnayar]

Indian Army to buy 2,408 Nag Mark 2 anti-tank guided missiles

Ye kya hua..kaise hua..kab huaaa...

107 NAMICA MK-2 and 2400+ NAG MK-2 order soon
[youtube]h4Rk1UuOx44[/youtube

the answer is right there

as chief vitalstatistix says.. tomorrow never comes, so is soon

[uddu]

Defence News: India Finalises Landmark Rs 79000 Crore Defence Deal For Armed Forces
Defence News: India Finalises Landmark Rs 79000 Crore Defence Deal For Armed Forces

India has sealed a landmark defence deal worth Rs 79,000 crore to bolster the capabilities of its armed forces. The historic agreement includes procurement of cutting-edge weapon systems, advanced platforms, and indigenous defence equipment as part of India’s continued push for self-reliance under the 'Atmanirbhar Bharat' initiative. This is one of the largest defence acquisitions in recent years and marks a major leap in India's strategic preparedness.

With a focus on modernisation, the deal covers critical assets for the Indian Army, Navy, and Air Force, strengthening India's military edge amid growing regional tensions. Join Republic as we decode what this mega-deal means for national security, operational readiness, and India's long-term defence roadmap.

[A Sharma]

IAF’s Astra Mk3 Gandivas, capable of destruction from 350 km away, set to be battle-ready by 2030: Report

[uddu]

Report of Astra MK2 ground test successfully achieving 193km range.
Indian Defence Updates : Su-57 Inspection,Astra MK2 193 Km Test,6 Tankers Deal,AMCA Centre Fuselage

[Shameek]

Can India match China’s PL-15 in the skies? Are Indian air-to-air missiles already outgunned by Pakistan’s F-16s? Is the IAF’s Meteor on the Rafale really enough or already outranged? And what does it mean for India’s Tejas and legacy fighters?

In CTRL ALT DEFENCE episode 24, Vishnu Som answers Shiv Aroor’s burning questions on India’s air defence vis a vis air-to-air missiles. A dive deep into the growing missile gap in South Asia and what India must do to close it. From the Chinese PL-15’s jaw-dropping range to the limitations of MICA, R-77, and even Meteor, this is a candid, fact-driven discussion on how ultra long-range air-to-air missiles are reshaping modern aerial combat.

Can India’s Astra Mk2 arrive in time? Can indigenous tech hold its own?

[SSridhar]

A very good discussion, thanks for posting.

[sudhan]

The practical NEZ for the PL15 should be around 50 kms at high alt and about 15-20km for low alt maneuvering targets.

The initial ROE for IAF would've helped the PAF push for a higher probability kill shot (Taken at around 100 kms away), still gives room for evasive maneuvering and counter measures.

Once the old ROE is done away with we should be able to perform ground attack from behind a offensive line of Flankers, Fulcrums, Mirages, Rafales and Tejas flinging BVR missiles and pushing the bandits defensive..

[Kartik]

Can people just stop cribbing all the time an import is made? Look at the overall situation! QRSAM is set to bag a Rs 30,000 crore order from the IA alone. Then there'll be an even bigger order from the IAF. QRSAM alone will cross Rs 1,00,000 crores in orders. That's plenty of love.

The main crib here is that there are too many of our indigenous systems that are "just about to be inducted"...just too many of them. With Martlet we didnt even know that it was being processed, none of the news about trials happening for the last 2 years.
This is the kind of news that we want to hear about our own systems, contracts being signed without hearing about its immenent induction for 5-10 years.

QRSAM is now getting massive orders worth billions. Nag Mk2 just got orders for over 2000 missiles along with NAMIS. More orders will come along with the Zorawar that just displayed it's ATGM capability with successful test firings.

Now that Nag Mk2 has gotten a big order, HELINA won't be far away either. Astra Mk2 will get an order for over 700 units once the range extension is done and demonstrated.

So what indigenous missile program are you talking about that has been developed and demonstrated but hasn't gotten orders?

[uddu]

Additional Meteor for IAF's Rafale | Rs 1500 Crore worth missile order | हिंदी में

[uddu]

DRDO’s MP-ATGM Clears Trials, Set For Induction; RFP Issued For Next-Gen 4th-Gen Missile
https://www.indiandefensenews.in/2025/1 ... t-for.html

The MP-ATGM has an effective range from 200 metres to 2.5 kilometres and offers a lightweight launch package for flexibility in infantry operations. Its tandem warhead ensures effectiveness against modern, reactive armoured targets; however, its range is more limited than that of Spike variants.​

The missile system is lightweight, with a total launch unit under 15 kg, allowing rapid deployment by infantry or special forces. MP-ATGM includes a state-of-the-art imaging infrared seeker, day-night operational capability, top-attack precision, and a dual-mode seeker for high accuracy in diverse operational environments. It is designed with a range of up to 2.5 km.​

Development has involved Bharat Dynamics Limited, which is readying production following the completion of user trials. The system is now slated to replace legacy second-generation missiles such as MILAN and Konkurs within Indian military service, providing a modern indigenous solution that supports self-reliance in critical defence technologies.​

Parallel to MP-ATGM induction, Army authorities have confirmed that a Request for Proposal (RFP) for a 4th-generation ATGM system is entering final stages. This future system is expected to incorporate advanced features such as multimode seekers, networked fire-control, enhanced team tactics, and capabilities specifically designed to defeat active protection systems on next-generation armoured platforms.​

Officials have indicated that the Make-2 route is under consideration for this new ATGM programme, opening avenues for both private and public sector innovation and ensuring assured orders for successful prototype developments. The aim is to further reinforce indigenous anti-armour capabilities through robust domestic R&D and manufacturing pipelines.​

[Prem Kumar]

QRSAM is now getting massive orders worth billions. Nag Mk2 just got orders for over 2000 missiles along with NAMIS. More orders will come along with the Zorawar that just displayed it's ATGM capability with successful test firings.

Now that Nag Mk2 has gotten a big order, HELINA won't be far away either. Astra Mk2 will get an order for over 700 units once the range extension is done and demonstrated.

So what indigenous missile program are you talking about that has been developed and demonstrated but hasn't gotten orders?

Kartik: let the orders come for QRSAM, NAG-Mk2, Helina etc - then we can celebrate. Nag-Mk1 was in an *order imminent* status for 2 decades before being buried. I hope you realize that Nag-Mk2 with NAMIS has only gotten AoN by the DAC. For comparison, it took 3 years+ for ATAGS to go from DAC approval to an actual order

Astra-Mk1 orders are piddly, though its the longest range AAM in our inventory. Goalpost has shifted to Astra-Mk2. Then further shifted to Astra-Mk2 200 Km version. While we make do with inferior R-77s

Pralay not inducted. Every 6 months, we hear news that *Helina/SANT/Dhruvastra have cleared new trials & are all set for induction* - yet no orders, though Prachand has been ordered and there is a huge inventory of Rudra without ATGMs

President Murmu was shown all the weapons carried by the Rafale during her ride 2 days back - the Meteor was conspicuous by its absence

Lets not defend the indefensible

[Prem Kumar]

DRDO’s MP-ATGM Clears Trials, Set For Induction; RFP Issued For Next-Gen 4th-Gen Missile
https://www.indiandefensenews.in/2025/1 ... t-for.html

The MP-ATGM has an effective range from 200 metres to 2.5 kilometres and offers a lightweight launch package for flexibility in infantry operations. Its tandem warhead ensures effectiveness against modern, reactive armoured targets; however, its range is more limited than that of Spike variants.​

....

Parallel to MP-ATGM induction, Army authorities have confirmed that a Request for Proposal (RFP) for a 4th-generation ATGM system is entering final stages. This future system is expected to incorporate advanced features such as multimode seekers, networked fire-control, enhanced team tactics, and capabilities specifically designed to defeat active protection systems on next-generation armoured platforms.​

This is how the tamasha continues. The Army will continue inducting Konkurs, Kornets & Milans, while cold-shouldering MANPATGM. When push comes to shove, they will place a token order & say *we are waiting for the 4th-gen ATGM*. When our 4th-gen-ATGM (whatever the heck it means) becomes ready, some Western arms maker will do a screwdriver JV with Adani. We will place huge orders & Rajnath will claim that this is a victory for Atmanirbharta

Rinse & repeat