Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/20 ... 79809?s=20 ---> India adds Non-negotiables to #Rafale deal which includes integration of Indian weapons, missiles and ammunition on all 114 jets; the plane maker will provide secure data links to allow digital integration of the jets with Indian radars and sensors sending imagery to ground-based controllers. IC content will be 60%.

Full reversal from the earlier ANI article.

* 30% IC has miracously jumped to 60% IC
* Source code approval via divine intervention
* Engine Collaboration (Safran opening the crown jewels)
* And other pixie fairy dust....

I think I know what has happened. The above is likely what was agreed to between the two nations. The ANI article was put out, minus the above, but with the cost provided. Once the outrage occurred on social media (you should have seen the meltdown on X!!), then the above comes out. Now the argument will be all the rona-dhona on social media has been addressed and thus $30 billion is a fair price.

If my theory is correct, then this is a deviously well played move by the GOI. The ANI article was put out as a feeler to gauge public reaction. And who better to do it than Ajit Dubey-ji of ANI. The man has street cred when it comes to defense reporting, at least in the eyes of the GOI. And likely the $30 billion will be higher and will spell the end of the Tejas Mk2. I believe Air HQ sealed the fate of the Mk2, with the follow on order of 97 Mk1A and now with the 114 MRFA.

The Mk2 will likely transition to the AMCA or the ORCA, but without the GE F414-INS6. I can only hope for the latter as a starting point or precursor to the AMCA. Something along the lines of the KF-21 Borame from South Korea.

...

Cain-ji, your long-held wish/dream of a twin engine MCA must just turn out to be true. Let's see.

[Aditya_V]

Or are we negotiating hard with GE and US at the same time?

[Rakesh]

GE will not happen Saar, due to the Orange Diaper Baby's temper tantrums on India via trade, Op Sindoor, etc.

Any hope for an American fighter (or any US military hardware, in significant quantities) went out the window, due to the alarming behaviour of the Trump Administration (Bennett the Dolt, Lutnick the Lunatic, etc) and Donald "Duck" Trump himself i.e. I-negotiated-peace-and-called-for-ceasefire-between-India-and-Pakistan.

GE engine shenanigans have not helped either. When the F404s were not being delivered on time, GE's complaint was that they required time to spool up production...as HAL ordered F404-IN20 turbofan, after the line had shutdown. Now that the line has commenced and deliveries occurring, the delay is still on-going ---> viewtopic.php?p=2669058#p2669058

[Rakesh]

No negotiation on transfer of source code for IAF jets
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... r-iaf-jets
15 Jan 2026

Sources emphasised that the new jets will be able to integrate indigenous weapons as required and maintain seamless communication with aircraft of foreign origin, ensuring full interoperability.

[bala]

https://x.com/i/status/2012082052137681405

Will France allow independent Indian weapon integration via open APIs... without Dassault’s involvement every time?
Will they permit integration of BNET and future indigenous data links?

APIs are the way to go. Dassault should agree on this otherwise nothing (India munitions, sensors, etc.) can be integrated on Rafale. BTW most software systems publish APIs for integration in enterprise context. The enterpise is the IAF for aircrafts for India.

[A_Gupta]

Hindi - a vigorous defense of the Rafale deal.
https://youtu.be/DeimzRaOuhA?si=Omc2WUrWzwTSm4xh
[youtube]DeimzRaOuhA[/quote]

A as key point is that IAF needs its squadron strength up, with weapons, including nukes, integrated, whether with Dassault help or via full source code. India also needs the ability to crank out large numbers of these aircraft.

(Simple example - if you really want to take out a S-400 for example, when it can engage 25 targets simultaneously, you need to present it with much more than 25 potential targets, not the measly four that Pakistan used.)

[VinodTK]

Defence Procurement Board 'clears ‘proposal for 114 Rafale jets

NEW DELHI: In a big boost for the Indian Air Force, the Defence Procurement Board, headed by defence secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh, has reportedly cleared a proposal to acquire 114 Rafale fighter jets from French manufacturer Dassault Aviation.
The “clearance” by the Defence Procurement Board, as per some agency reports, marks the first formal step towards finalising the mega deal for the IAF, which is expected to be India’s largest-ever defence acquisition. The media reports said the deal could be valued around Rs 3.25 lakh crore. The proposal will now be placed before the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), chaired by defence minister Rajnath Singh. The final approval will be required from the Cabinet Committee on Security, headed by PM Narendra Modi.
The Defence Procurement Board’s approval came just ahead of French President Emmaunel Macron's visit to India next month. If all other approvals and price negotiations happen on time, there is a possibility that India and France may sign the deal for 114 jets during President Macron’s visit next month.
The procurement will proceed under an inter-governmental agreement, ensuring direct deliveries without any intermediaries. Last year, the IAF had moved a formal proposal to the defence ministry, seeking 114 more Rafales.

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[Cain Marko]

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/20 ... 79809?s=20 ---> India adds Non-negotiables to #Rafale deal which includes integration of Indian weapons, missiles and ammunition on all 114 jets; the plane maker will provide secure data links to allow digital integration of the jets with Indian radars and sensors sending imagery to ground-based controllers. IC content will be 60%.Full reversal from the earlier ANI article

Wow. That's well played indeed.

...

Cain-ji, your long-held wish/dream of a twin engine MCA must just turn out to be true. Let's see.

Yeah I guess. I always thought getting 36 odd vanilla f35 would've been a better way to appease the big guy instead of allowing him access to the crown jewels (Tejas).

The French have never been above board when it comes to engines despite the hefty price (nobody really has), the US just took it to the next level. But I think desh missed a great opportunity in leveraging the al31 infrastructure it has so painstakingly built over decades. The Tejas should've been based on a desi version of the Saturn esp. post 2007 when it was marked as low on thrust and when Putin came with a begging bowl offering sweeteners on the al31.

Ideally of course I'd loved to have seen a shift to a twin engined bird based on the relatively skinny ksveri that gtre had already proofed. That would've been the right course of action. Even if the kaveri had taken longer, the m88 and rd33 could've served as a backup.

Either of these options would've served so many needs ...mig21 replacement, mrca, navy fighter.

Anyways Admiral saar, it's all water under the bridge...woulda coulda. Ruing the past don't fix nothing otherwise I'd be getting some mithai right now

[Cain Marko]

Or are we negotiating hard with GE and US at the same time?

Better to negotiate for 36-54 f35 than mortgage your entire future and mainstay.

[Cain Marko]

Defence Procurement Board 'clears ‘proposal for 114 Rafale jets

NEW DELHI: In a big boost for the Indian Air Force, the Defence Procurement Board, headed by defence secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh, has reportedly cleared a proposal to acquire 114 Rafale fighter jets from French manufacturer Dassault Aviation.
The “clearance” by the Defence Procurement Board, as per some agency reports, marks the first formal step towards finalising the mega deal for the IAF, which is expected to be India’s largest-ever defence acquisition. The media reports said the deal could be valued around Rs 3.25 lakh crore. The proposal will now be placed before the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), chaired by defence minister Rajnath Singh. The final approval will be required from the Cabinet Committee on Security, headed by PM Narendra Modi.
The Defence Procurement Board’s approval came just ahead of French President Emmaunel Macron's visit to India next month. If all other approvals and price negotiations happen on time, there is a possibility that India and France may sign the deal for 114 jets during President Macron’s visit next month.
The procurement will proceed under an inter-governmental agreement, ensuring direct deliveries without any intermediaries. Last year, the IAF had moved a formal proposal to the defence ministry, seeking 114 more Rafales.
::

I shudder to think what the MLU on this fleet will cost. But I guess it's the price to pay for strategic independence and a reflection of the geopolitical reality of the world rearming itself to the teeth, esp.. The neighborhood.

[VinodTK]

The India Tapes

India reportedly plans to seal a 114-jet Rafale deal by 2026, valued at over ₹3 lakh crore, combining a major boost in combat capability with a strong push for indigenous manufacturing. Under the plan, 18 aircraft will be delivered from France initially, while 96 jets will be assembled in India at a proposed final assembly line in Nagpur.

The India-built Rafales are expected to feature up to 60% indigenous content, phased in over time, marking a significant step toward self-reliance in defence production under Atmanirbhar Bharat. The jets will be delivered in the advanced F4 standard, which includes enhanced network connectivity, satellite communication links, and upgraded avionics, with provisions for future upgrades to next-generation variants.

The deal is expected to be signed in 2026, with the first fly-away jets from France likely to arrive around 2030. Indian assembly will ramp up in the years following, aiming for full production in the early 2030s.

Multiple Indian private defence firms, including TATA, Mahindra, and Dynamatic Technologies, will participate in the programme. The Nagpur assembly line is expected to have a production capacity of around 24 aircraft per year and could serve both domestic and international demand.

This acquisition will strengthen the Indian Air Force’s squadron strength while deepening strategic and industrial cooperation with France, positioning India as one of the largest Rafale operators outside Europe.

[csaurabh]

Indigenous content of 60% is a pipe dream.

Those promoting these ideas simply have no idea how aircraft supply chains work.
At best, the realistically achievable number is 20%, which denotes the final assembly being done in India.

We are barely pushing 60% indigenous on Tejas, which is a home-grown aircraft program.
Rafale is a French aircraft with major parts being built by top European aircraft manufacturers and components coming from hundreds of SMEs.
Who is foolish enough to believe that this whole ecosystem can simply be transplanted wholesale or that any company or country would be willing to do so ?

[uddu]

Engine should be indigenous for the indigenous content percentage to increase beyond the current level.

Indigenous content of 60% is a pipe dream.

Those promoting these ideas simply have no idea how aircraft supply chains work.
At best, the realistically achievable number is 20%, which denotes the final assembly being done in India.

We are barely pushing 60% indigenous on Tejas, which is a home-grown aircraft program.
Rafale is a French aircraft with major parts being built by top European aircraft manufacturers and components coming from hundreds of SMEs.
Who is foolish enough to believe that this whole ecosystem can simply be transplanted wholesale or that any company or country would be willing to do so ?

HAL Pushes for 70% Indigenous Content in Latest Tejas Mk1A Order
https://defence.in/threads/hal-pushes-f ... rder.5562/
16 April 2024

In the latest contract for 97 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk1A fighters, HAL has set its sights on exceeding the baseline 65% indigenization level. The company aims to push this figure above 70%, a noteworthy leap from the 55% domestic content achieved in a previous Tejas Mk1A order. The original Tejas Mk1 model already features an impressive 59.7% indigenous content by value and 75.5% by line replaceable units (LRUs).

[Rakesh]

Rafale - Is The IAF Getting 114 Rafales?

Key Highlights from the Episode:

The potential mega-deal for 114 MRFA aircraft is estimated to be worth approximately Rs 3.2 lakh crore.
India is looking to leapfrog technology by securing the latest Rafale F4 and upcoming F5 variants for superior combat edge.
The IAF has increasingly identified the Rafale as its multirole bedrock to maintain regional air superiority.
This follows a massive naval milestone—a government-to-government deal for 26 Rafale-M fighters for the Indian Navy worth over $7.5 billion.
With the Rafale taking center stage, questions arise on where this leaves the Tejas Mk2, which is still awaiting its first rollout.
The shift toward the Rafale highlights the urgent need for the IAF to bridge the squadron strength gap with proven platforms.

[Sumeet]

Or are we negotiating hard with GE and US at the same time?

Better to negotiate for 36-54 f35 than mortgage your entire future and mainstay.

With existing S-400s and new orders yet to arrive (and in future going for S-500) F-35 is a no go from DC. This is besides the fact that we will be at mercy of unkil.