MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

[Rakesh]

Lots of hyperbole and tall claims in the tweet below, but it is a hilarious read...

https://x.com/SacredScroll/status/20099 ... 55327?s=20 ---> SORRY DONALD, THE DEAL IS FRENCH!

India Rejects US Pressure & Locks in the RAFALE TSUNAMI!

While President Trump was busy tweeting about tariffs and complaining that "Modi is not happy" with him, India quietly prepared the paperwork for the Deal of the Century... with France. Reports confirm India is finalizing the acquisition of 114 Rafale jets for the IAF AND 26 Rafale M for the Navy. The "Art of the Deal" just got schooled by New Delhi.

Why Uncle Sam is Crying

1. The American Rejection

The US pushed the F-18 Super Hornet and F-21 hard. They threatened sanctions, complained about Russian oil, and slapped tariffs on us.
India’s Response? "Seen 10: 00 PM." Left on read. We chose the jet that doesn't come with a 'User Manual' written by the US Congress.

2. The 'Made in India' Fortress

This isn't just buying; it's owning.Tata Advanced Systems is setting up to build the bird here. 60% value retention in India. We aren't just flying them; we are building the ecosystem to replace them with our own AMCA later.

3. Total Dominance (The Two-Front Nightmare)

China: Panicking because the Rafale M on INS Vikrant means the Indian Ocean is a "No-Entry" zone.

Pakistan: Already has PTSD from the Rafale sound barrier and the latest wrath in Operation sindoor.

US: Realizing that "Strategic Autonomy" means you can't bully India into buying your jets.

The Deal Breakdown:

* Navy: 26 Rafale-M (₹63k crore) for INS Vikrant. Immediate IOR control. China blocked.

* Air Force: 114 MRFA all Rafale jets. Why? Speed + Logistics. We know them, we rule with them. No drama.

Macron is visiting next month to likely seal the deal. Trump can keep his tariffs; we’ll keep the best Omni-Role fighter in the world.

Strategic Autonomy 1, Bullying 0. France has stood by India through THICK and THIN (1998 Nuclear tests, Kargil, Kashmir). The ultimate deterrent is loading...

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/SacredScroll/status/20099 ... 55327?s=20 ---> SORRY DONALD, THE DEAL IS FRENCH!

Some replies to the above tweet. Click on the link above to read the other replies.

Amazing how the aam junta American apologists got so triggered by this post on X.

https://x.com/rattlerjack/status/201006 ... 36379?s=20 ---> Rafale and F-35 are not at the same technology level.
^^^^
https://x.com/SacredScroll/status/20100 ... 42538?s=20 ---> The F-35 isn't a fighter jet; it's a Subscription Service. You buy it, but the US controls the software, the logistics (ALIS), and decides when you can fly it. The Rafale is a Product. We buy it, we own it, we hack it, we modify it. I’d rather fly an 'obsolete' jet that I control than a 'modern' jet that can be bricked by a software update from Washington. Sovereignty > Stealth.

[Rakesh]

The bolded part was mentioned so many times on BRF, especially during the Single Engine thread saga. BRF, ahead of the curve

https://x.com/Bricktop_NAFO/status/2010 ... 67102?s=20 ---> A brutal and embarrassing blow to Donald Trump. India is finalizing the acquisition of 114 Rafale Jets for the Indian Air Force and 26 Rafale-M for the Navy.

This comes after the United States was trying to Force Indian to purchase F18 Super Hornet and F-21 Multi role jets along with Apache Helicopters. A few days ago Trump even highlighted his relationship with Indian Prime Minister Modi while speaking about a potential major Boeing aircraft and defence sale to India.

In a devastating response Modi has reportedly said that for the new purchase to replenish the Air Force, they wanted to buy Jets who’s user manuals wasn’t written by United States Congress…….

How embarrassing….

I’ve said it once and I will say it again. Trump has obliterated the future of the US arms trade after his heavy restrictions on use of US weapons in Ukraine which made the world realize, what was the point in buying US weapons if you can’t use them how you wish. The European and UK defense industry is where its at in the future.

[VKumar]

For years I have been writing
One squadron of Rafale every year till AMCA is available

[Rakesh]

114 MRFA will go to Dassault and MoD will open a tender for around 60 5th generation fighter aircraft.

Lockheed Martin will participate (F-35), along with Sukhoi (Su-57). Watch this space

No decision yet on Su-57: HAL awaits Russian team’s report on cost
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... -10481774/
19 January 2026

The cost report, which is expected this month, will provide a clear picture of the quantum of expenditure needed to manufacture the Russian fifth-generation fighter jets in India, including advanced technologies, human resource, infrastructure, and supply chain development.

[Cain Marko]

114 MRFA will go to Dassault and MoD will open a tender for around 60 5th generation fighter aircraft.

Lockheed Martin will participate (F-35), along with Sukhoi (Su-57). Watch this space

No decision yet on Su-57: HAL awaits Russian team’s report on cost
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... -10481774/
19 January 2026

The cost report, which is expected this month, will provide a clear picture of the quantum of expenditure needed to manufacture the Russian fifth-generation fighter jets in India, including advanced technologies, human resource, infrastructure, and supply chain development.

The next interesting of the MRCA/MRFA/SEF saga!

[Rakesh]

HAL Pursuing Su-57 Joint Production Offer with Sukhoi
https://thumkar.blogspot.com/2026/01/ha ... ction.html
22 Jan 2026

[SRajesh]

^^Admiral Saab
Given OM and OC (i call Macron a man with Oedipal Complex) bust up at Davos.
And the Leaked reports of land deal agreements in Greeland with NATO members reprimanding OC!!
How is it going to affect this Many Bakshak Aircraft Saga??
OM is a very vindictive person and if the multi-billion contract goes to France and OC he will cause much disruption.
Especially with GE engines and stall the LCA programme!
Will it be Rafale all the way or two way split between Rafale and Natasha
And given our penchant for Mengeries (bordering faintly on Menagie-a-trios) can we see a three way split : Natasha, Rafale and a Shiny New Barbie!!!

[Rakesh]

^^Admiral Saab
Given OM and OC (i call Macron a man with Oedipal Complex) bust up at Davos.
And the Leaked reports of land deal agreements in Greeland with NATO members reprimanding OC!!
How is it going to affect this Many Bakshak Aircraft Saga??
OM is a very vindictive person and if the multi-billion contract goes to France and OC he will cause much disruption.
Especially with GE engines and stall the LCA programme!
Will it be Rafale all the way or two way split between Rafale and Natasha
And given our penchant for Mengeries (bordering faintly on Menagie-a-trios) can we see a three way split : Natasha, Rafale and a Shiny New Barbie!!!

Please read these posts (in the order displayed below);

1. viewtopic.php?p=2669798#p2669798

2. viewtopic.php?p=2669807#p2669807

3. viewtopic.php?p=2669818#p2669818

[SRajesh]

^^^ so reading through your posts am I right to assume that :
1. we will have atleast 114 Rafale
2. X number of Natasha's
3. And 6-12 Elaichi Souffle's
All in that order

[Rakesh]

^^^ so reading through your posts am I right to assume that :
1. we will have atleast 114 Rafale
2. X number of Natasha's
3. And 6-12 Elaichi Souffle's
All in that order

1. Yes, if Rafale clears the DAC meeting and the CCS meeting. Then negotiations begin with Dassault and a contract signature is expected in 2027. A lot of things can go wrong between now and contract signature. So the Govt is crossing all the 'T's and dotting all the 'I's to ensure nothing goes wrong.

2. I am assuming you mean Su-57 = Natasha. If so, then very likely possible. Very much in the infancy stages though, as all focus is on the 114 deal.

3. Project 77 (aka Elaichi Souffle) has started off with two boats for now. Four more to be added latter. That is the plan. More should & will be added in the decades to come.

And yes, all in that order. Six Project 75I boats (custom variant of the Type 212CD for India) is also very close to signing I believe.

[SRajesh]

So we will have three layered Fighter Division :
1. CAP and some ground attack support when needed : LCA (both M1 and M2)
2. Aircombat support role and Maritime strike if needed : Su-57
3. Omnirole/Air superiority/Anti-Ship strike : Rafale
If and when TEDBF and ORCA's come through they will be slotted accordingly

[Cybaru]

Came across this excellent thread on twitter that explores Kaveri first vs purchase. Worth engaging in..

https://x.com/BharatRakshak13/status/20 ... 5159112777

1/14 The Rafale vs Tejas debate misses the point entirely. The question isn't which fighter we buy. It's which engine we can build. Acquisitions are band-aids. Engine programs are SOVEREIGNTY.

[Rakesh]

Perhaps I should just rename this thread to Su-57 acquisition for the IAF

https://x.com/vkthakur/status/2016508423031103702?s=20 ---> Locally produced Su-57s will integrate Indian Systems & Industry Components. CEO of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Vadim Badekha told Russian reporters at Hyderabad today on the sidelines of the Wings India air show that Moscow and New Delhi are in "deep technical stage" of negotiations on the supply and production of the Su-57 fighter jet in India, "Today, we are in the deep technical stage of negotiations on this contract [for the Su-57]. Such contracts, given our experience, determine the trajectory of our cooperation for several decades to come," Badekha said. According to Badekha, Su-57s will be produced at the Indian facilities currently used to produce the Su-30 aircraft and involve maximum use of Indian industry and Indian systems in this aircraft. "Therefore, the contract requires extensive, in-depth study. It is currently in the advanced stage of technical consultations."

[SRajesh]

^^I get a feeling that Su-57 few to keep both Russians and HAL happy
As Rafale will be totally private with no HAL involvement
Question would be: what would IAF do with Tejas order??
Will they continue to support
They should get inolved and spruce it up to their liking and make it a workhorse for CAP

[Rakesh]

^^^ @SRajesh: Everything you said about Tejas will happen. What would be icing on the cake for the program though ---> Tejas flying with her own homegrown engine. Then the advantages you have listed below increases exponentially.

[SRajesh]

^^^Sirji if that happens (homegrown engines) then we should go out for Golguppas and Falooda treat!!

[Rakesh]

Russia, India holding technical discussions to explore possibility of joint production of Su-57: Official
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 715050.cms
28 Jan 2026

India and Russia are in advanced talks for joint production of the Sukhoi Su-57E fighter jet. Discussions also cover licensed manufacturing of the Su-57 in India. An agreement is in place for Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to assist in producing Superjet-100 regional jets. This collaboration aims to expand aviation industry cooperation and reduce aircraft costs.

[bkswarti]

Russia, India holding technical discussions to explore possibility of joint production of Su-57: Official
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 715050.cms
28 Jan 2026

India and Russia are in advanced talks for joint production of the Sukhoi Su-57E fighter jet. Discussions also cover licensed manufacturing of the Su-57 in India. An agreement is in place for Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to assist in producing Superjet-100 regional jets. This collaboration aims to expand aviation industry cooperation and reduce aircraft costs.

Can someone explain to me why this aircraft is considered a stop gap measure until AMCA when Su-57 has similar RCS as Rafale? Is it just optics to show that we have a “fifth gen” because PAF is getting one?

[Cain Marko]

Russia, India holding technical discussions to explore possibility of joint production of Su-57: Official
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 715050.cms
28 Jan 2026

Can someone explain to me why this aircraft is considered a stop gap measure until AMCA when Su-57 has similar RCS as Rafale? Is it just optics to show that we have a “fifth gen” because PAF is getting one?

Who told you it's rcs is same as Rafale? Rafale is nowhere close to the shaping, platform alignment or internal weapons carriage that the su57 has. The latter will outclass the raffle in every parameter except possibly sensor integration and suite.

If India can get the su57 mkized enough it'll be a potent and full fledged 5gen bird.

[Manish_P]

^ the real professionals - the IAF - are very fond of the Rafale (and they are very fond of the Su 30MKI). There is not enough excitement/enthusiasm expressed by them about the Su 57. Fodder for thought perhaps?

[Rakesh]

^^^ https://x.com/VinodDX9/status/2016889092966142125?s=20 ----> At this moment, Su-57 is still, and just, under discussion. Don't forget, the IAF has not provided any statement regarding this. So no reason to believe the IAF side is interested, unless a statement indicates so.

Russia, India are at advanced stage of consultations on Su-57 production — UAC
https://tass.com/economy/2077763
28 Jan 2026

[bkswarti]

Can someone explain to me why this aircraft is considered a stop gap measure until AMCA when Su-57 has similar RCS as Rafale? Is it just optics to show that we have a “fifth gen” because PAF is getting one?

Who told you it's rcs is same as Rafale? Rafale is nowhere close to the shaping, platform alignment or internal weapons carriage that the su57 has. The latter will outclass the raffle in every parameter except possibly sensor integration and suite.

If India can get the su57 mkized enough it'll be a potent and full fledged 5gen bird.

Sukhoi’s own patent says 0.1 to 1 m2. Which is a massive range but the Rafale is widely known to have an RCS of ~1m2.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you ... -f-35/amp/

I believe Russians themselves know this, which is why they are too afraid to use it over the skies of Ukraine.

[Rakesh]

...

Apart from the technical aspect, there is also a political aspect to the Su-57. See below...
viewtopic.php?p=2669818#p2669818

With regards to the Su-57, there is also regional politics at play. Giving the Rafale assembly to an entity other than HAL, will give the opposition in India ammunition to hammer the Govt. And HAL is based in Karnataka which is currently ruled by the Congress Party. So the best way to solve that problem, would be to give HAL a line for Su-57 assembly and Super Sukhoi upgrade. This was always the plan of the GOI - two lines (one public i.e. HAL and one private player). TASL has the C-295 and will also get the MTA (Medium Transport Aircraft) contract. If everything pans out as planned, TASL has an exciting future and for the young readers who want to get into the world of aviation in India, check out TASL.

You could have 177S (AL-41) to feature as part of a Super Sukhoi upgrade, if a Su-57 purchase indeed goes through.

[pravula]

Who told you it's rcs is same as Rafale? Rafale is nowhere close to the shaping, platform alignment or internal weapons carriage that the su57 has. The latter will outclass the raffle in every parameter except possibly sensor integration and suite.

If India can get the su57 mkized enough it'll be a potent and full fledged 5gen bird.

Sukhoi’s own patent says 0.1 to 1 m2. Which is a massive range but the Rafale is widely known to have an RCS of ~1m2.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you ... -f-35/amp/

I believe Russians themselves know this, which is why they are too afraid to use it over the skies of Ukraine.

Those are clean configs right? Loadout matters.

[bkswarti]

Sukhoi’s own patent says 0.1 to 1 m2. Which is a massive range but the Rafale is widely known to have an RCS of ~1m2.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you ... -f-35/amp/

I believe Russians themselves know this, which is why they are too afraid to use it over the skies of Ukraine.

Those are clean configs right? Loadout matters.

I am not sure but I imagine you are right. Having an internal weapons bay likely makes a difference. Another thing to note is that surface area wise, su-57 is much bigger aircraft than the Rafale. So that in itself means that Su-57 is doing a lot of work in hiding its signature.

From reading some comments in the past, a lot of people think that the RCS may be so large due to the twin AL-41 engines, maybe that’ ll be improved with the planned AL-51(Su-57M) but the Russians aren’t exporting that version. The Su-57E (their export version) will continue carrying the AL-41.

[drnayar]

Those are clean configs right? Loadout matters.

I am not sure but I imagine you are right. Having an internal weapons bay likely makes a difference. Another thing to note is that surface area wise, su-57 is much bigger aircraft than the Rafale. So that in itself means that Su-57 is doing a lot of work in hiding its signature.

From reading some comments in the past, a lot of people think that the RCS may be so large due to the twin AL-41 engines, maybe that’ ll be improved with the planned AL-51(Su-57M) but the Russians aren’t exporting that version. The Su-57E (their export version) will continue carrying the AL-41.

They have improved the thermal signatures with flat nozzles, that said the Felon s stealth is mostly in frontal aspect. I would say if it is not really a true 5th gen fighter in western definition but Russia apparently calls it their 5th generation!

[bkswarti]

^American propoganda calls it an Su-35 with stealth coating. Which honestly seems about right.

[Cain Marko]

Sukhoi’s own patent says 0.1 to 1 m2. Which is a massive range but the Rafale is widely known to have an RCS of ~1m2.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you ... -f-35/amp/

I believe Russians themselves know this, which is why they are too afraid to use it over the skies of Ukraine.

Russian measurement methods differ and tend to give you numbers that are an average from different sectors, not just frontal rcs. There's a reason the 57 has angled movable twin tails, no real canards, internal bays, visible planform and edge alignment, super cruise and chining. Anyone saying that they have similar rcs is feeding you churan (probably American or French).

Add external stores and it becomes more obvious.

[Cain Marko]

^ the real professionals - the IAF - are very fond of the Rafale (and they are very fond of the Su 30MKI). There is not enough excitement/enthusiasm expressed by them about the Su 57. Fodder for thought perhaps?

Yes. There could be a lot of reasons for this. For example, the iaf needs a ready to fight jet, which the su57 was not, and still is quite fresh. The other issue is the pressure from the US. Third issue esp. For iaf was over dependence on any one supplier for the inventory. Having 270mki, 60 mig 29 and 120 mig21s was very Russia heavy to begin with. Now that the migs are on the way out, things could look different and they may pitch for a few sqds.

[Manish_P]

Valid points. Even though the basket of eggs is more diverse than it was a couple of decades ago we are going to have to do the balancing act till our homegrown hens start laying desi eggs.

The Su-57 is the natural successor of the Su-30MKI. And it will be more mature in a decade making it an even more tempting buy.

IF we fail the AMCA I expect a lot (not 1;1) of Su-57s to replace the Su-30MKIs.

The AMCA has as much pressure on its broader shoulders as the LCA had on its slimmer ones.

[Manish_Sharma]

Can someone explain to me why this aircraft is considered a stop gap measure until AMCA when Su-57 has similar RCS as Rafale? Is it just optics to show that we have a “fifth gen” because PAF is getting one?

how can the rcs of fully loaded Rafale be same as internal weapon carrier Su-57?
https://images.hindustantimes.com/img/2 ... 789044.png
vs
https://static.nv.ua/shared/system/Medi ... 149&f=webp

~Thrust to weight
~internal fuel capacity Range (Rafale has even lesser than F16), Group Captain (Retd.) MJ Augstine Vinod saar was asked on youtube interview & he agreed
~flexibility in source code or integration of SPJ & Virupaksha + Swadeshi munitions & missiles su57 wins


the only criterias Rafale has edge is:
~High availability
~Quicker absorption in IAF squadrons