Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Atri]

For God's sake... what we saw in Goa IS democracy in action. Even with the opposition of entrenched and senior party leaders, NM has gained Campaign Committee Chairmanship by virtue of winning majority support within the institution. This is the very paradigm of robust institutional democracy, more so than ANY other party, Yadav-led, Mayavati-led, Mamta-led, or Jaya-led can boast of. The old man opposed Modi, he lost, and surprise of surprises... he bowed out with a letter of resignation! Are we so inured to the dictatorial remote-control of the Termite Queen For Life, that we see genuine institutional democracy as a sign of infighting and weakness? If we buy the enemy's propaganda before the battle has begun, forget about winning the war!

could you tweet this please.. requires broader audience..

[SwamyG]

Dear Soosai Theorists:
What would LKA have to do for you to reconsider your theory? It reminds me of a tamil adage about a guy falls flat on his face, gets up and claims there is no dirt on his moustache onlee. Whatever happens, you give credit to LKA. It is akin to 'Major blow to Modi...'. Reams of articles are written, thousand words are poured, tens of cartoons are drawn....yet you proudly claim all the magic happens because of LKA - the Supreme who dons the soosai vest. And for what reason? Because he wants to bring down UPA, and herald his shishiya Modi.

Why thrust the alien concept of 'soosia' to an Indic yoddha ? As per Indic culture, yoddha fight with valor and go down fighting. That is the honor. I know you might cite some war tactic from Mahabharata to prove LKA acts as lightning rod, and absorbing all the heat from INC. But what makes you think he is doing precisely that?

Even if Advani were to utter the following "Modi is unfit for BJP and not a good human being; and hence should not be a PM candidate", you are likely to consider it as a master stroke, unparalleled in the last 2763 years of Indian history.

What makes you so strong in confidence, after watching Buddhu Janata Party perform in the Lost Decade of India years? In a decade, INC steered and commanded about dozen (give or take) scams; yet LKA did not bring down the government. Was he waiting for the right moment to thrust Modi? You might argue Modi was not ready, so LKA had to buy time. If INC was a soccer goalie, it feebly kicked the ball straight to its opponent's forward who was right there in the D area, and forward all the time kicked the ball into the stands and not into the goal. Not once was a goal scored. Sure the feet kicked the ball, even a toddler could have struck the ball.

What should happen for you to reconsider your theories?

regards,

[Sushupti]

CNN-IBN quoted BJP President Rajnath Singh as saying that the party would function with or without Advani.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/live- ... 57691.html

[RajeshA]

Hence the soosai vest.

Thanks LKA -- please retire with lot of dead wood carrying with you. create lot of muck/stench around you.

I concur with this. There are only two explanations:

1) Either LK Advani lost his mind and couldn't come to grips with the change of wind direction, the popularity of Modi, his acceptance to the cadre as well as RSS, and thus went into a self-destructive sulk at loss of influence and chance to be either king or kingmaker; or

2) LK Advani played the fox, considering his own integrity having been compromised, knowing that the Mainos had something scandalous on him, and thus he put up a credible but scripted drama where he tries to convincingly show he makes maximum effort to stop Modi at the insistence of the Maino clan and even self-destructs in the process, but in reality he is taking all "deadwood" with him.

Whatever be the case, the result is that any suspects in the BJP who were being suspected of going easy on the Dynasty are being sidelined and they are losing their relevance fast. All their levers of power and manipulation within BJP have been neutralized.

If Advani was a bomb the Mainos had carefully created within BJP, then Advani is ensuring that he goes off prematurely and cannot be used in the future to do more damage, and along with it he takes down a lot more little bombs who were lying around.

If Advani had not positioned himself as opposed to Modi, it would not have been clear who else were Maino's assets within BJP. So his actions have neutralized many a Maino's carefully nurtured assets, many of which would have been set up through CBI blackmail.

Also since this through this event, he has provided the Congress with a mild tool to slap BJP - that BJP doesn't care about its elders, it is unlikely that the Congress would be bringing out anything which would undermine Advani still more, which could have been very embarrassing for the BJP if he were to remain BJP's respected patriarch. By bringing down his own respect in front of the BJP cadre, he has ensured that any revelations on him would do no more damage. With the general elections coming, this would have been the time, when the Congress dirty tricks department would have brought out everything with which they could have hurt BJP's chances in their desperate attempts to undermine Modi.

Basically Advani has ensured the collapse of the whole anti-Modi faction in BJP.

I think Advani would allow himself to be rehabilitated only after Modi finishes off the Mainos and their networks politically.

[kumarn]

'people just do not know when to fade away into the sunset' - Namo on Keshubhai patel in the run up to gujrat 2012 assembly elections.

Rings a bell??

[SaiK]

^on the same note rajesh ji, what if i say, kangrez by bringing up chota rahul then does not care about elder sonia? i don't think that is true.

[vina]

I think he has stunned himself first. We will see more of this very soon.

[Rudradev]

You seem to be making a point about AAP funding, and if I recall correctly, you had recently made a claim that the land owned by the Church in India equals 4 times the entire area of the state of Punjab.

I am happy to look into all claims backed by credible data ... one should have a completely open mind.

That was not the claim I made, it was how you decided to interpret it.

I said that the Church is the largest non-governmental owner of land in India, and that it holdings were estimated at 6% of all privately owned land. It was your own extrapolation of this statement into a claim that the Church owns 6% of all the land of the Indian Union by area i.e. 4 times the area of Punjab.

The figure is 6% of all land, by value, that is not publicly owned or designated agricultural by the GOI. The data is publicly available to anyone who seeks it, though not conveniently encapsulated at any internet link. Before 2008, it was not even encapsulated in any single government office; one would have to go to the offices of Director of Land Records and Settlement Commissioner for each state and UT in India. Since 2008 there has been a move to computerize all land records and consolidate them with the Department of Land Resources in the Ministry of Rural Development. Once that effort has reached completion you will be able to find all the data you need at the MRD office in New Delhi.

[Pranav]

If Advani had not positioned himself as opposed to Modi, it would not have been clear who else were Maino's assets within BJP. So his actions have neutralized many a Maino's carefully nurtured assets, many of which would have been set up through CBI blackmail.
...

Basically Advani has ensured the collapse of the whole anti-Modi faction in BJP.

Valid points ... I do not subscribe to the "chankian" theory of Advani's behavior, but -

[Sanku]

Dear Soosai Theorists:
What would LKA have to do for you to reconsider your theory?

data that this goes against what we want, clear path of BJP victory.

Why thrust the alien concept of 'soosia' to an Indic yoddha ? ,

Atri-ji, used the word Ghatotkhacha, I can also think of Abhimanyu.

[Atri]

Dear Soosai Theorists:
What would LKA have to do for you to reconsider your theory? It reminds me of a tamil adage about a guy falls flat on his face, gets up and claims there is no dirt on his moustache onlee. Whatever happens, you give credit to LKA. It is akin to 'Major blow to Modi...'. Reams of articles are written, thousand words are poured, tens of cartoons are drawn....yet you proudly claim all the magic happens because of LKA - the Supreme who dons the soosai vest. And for what reason? Because he wants to bring down UPA, and herald his shishiya Modi.

Why thrust the alien concept of 'soosia' to an Indic yoddha ? As per Indic culture, yoddha fight with valor and go down fighting. That is the honor. I know you might cite some war tactic from Mahabharata to prove LKA acts as lightning rod, and absorbing all the heat from INC. But what makes you think he is doing precisely that?

Even if Advani were to utter the following "Modi is unfit for BJP and not a good human being; and hence should not be a PM candidate", you are likely to consider it as a master stroke, unparalleled in the last 2763 years of Indian history.

What makes you so strong in confidence, after watching Buddhu Janata Party perform in the Lost Decade of India years? In a decade, INC steered and commanded about dozen (give or take) scams; yet LKA did not bring down the government. Was he waiting for the right moment to thrust Modi? You might argue Modi was not ready, so LKA had to buy time. If INC was a soccer goalie, it feebly kicked the ball straight to its opponent's forward who was right there in the D area, and forward all the time kicked the ball into the stands and not into the goal. Not once was a goal scored. Sure the feet kicked the ball, even a toddler could have struck the ball.

What should happen for you to reconsider your theories?

regards,

Swamy ji..

I can speak for myself. I have used the word soosai time and over again. So I understand the primary thrust of this post is towards me.

There is particular line of thought that I follow. You may see the evolution of that thought on board over couple of months. I spoke about it to few friends some of whom are also present here on BRF in private long back, but that's long time ago and in private conversation and idea was not evolved then.

1. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1441268

2. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1441870

3. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1442611

4. I picked up the word "soosai" here responding to negi ji - http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1455772

5. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1455879

Now this line of thought has been thoroughly criticized by JohneeG garu on this very thread here - http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1449323

This is a very thorough criticism and I have thanked johneeg garu for this..

Then all the recent posts in past 2-3 days happened.

---------------------------------------------------------

It is not about what LKA should OR should not do.. It is about how will those actions contribute towards mid and long-term safe-guarding, conservation and expansion of Hindu culture in India outwards.

No matter what he does OR say now, LKA's job is done. As I see it, it is job well done. and it is achieving the necessary manthana in the milky-ocean. The poison of criticism, LKA is drinking (well, he is no mahadeva - he is very much part of this churning).

If you follow the stream of thought above, you will perhaps reach the conclusion that I have reached. of course, you may disagree OR rebut that stream of thought. then you will not reach this conclusion. OR you may agree with that stream of thought but have some different take on it, and will reach at different conclusions. But primary assumption in my model is, LKA fundamentally is a desh-bhakta and dharma-veera. There is enough data from history to show his affiliation towards the cause of Hindus and India.

[negi]

Dear Soosai Theorists:
What would LKA have to do for you to reconsider your theory?

data that this goes against what we want, clear path of BJP victory.

Why thrust the alien concept of 'soosia' to an Indic yoddha ? ,

Atri-ji, used the word Ghatotkhacha, I can also think of Abhimanyu.

I have better one to describe his antics, Don Quixote .

[SaiK]

Sanku ji, it is also too late to think about Vibeeshana.

[Atri]

I have better one to describe his antics Don Quixote .

yes, sushupti ji has used it.. He reserves Don Quixote for ABV.. LkA is sancho panza in his model..

[Pranav]

You seem to be making a point about AAP funding, and if I recall correctly, you had recently made a claim that the land owned by the Church in India equals 4 times the entire area of the state of Punjab.

I am happy to look into all claims backed by credible data ... one should have a completely open mind.

That was not the claim I made, it was how you decided to interpret it.

I said that the Church was the largest non-governmental owner of land in India, and that it holdings were estimated at 6% of all privately owned land. It was your own extrapolation of this statement into a claim that the Church owns 6% of all the land of the Indian Union by area i.e. 4 times the area of Punjab.

The figure is 6% of all land, by value, that is not publicly owned or designated agricultural by the GOI. The data is publicly available to anyone who seeks it, though not conveniently encapsulated at any internet link. Before 2008, it was not even encapsulated in any single government office; one would have to go to the offices of Director of Land Records and Settlement Commissioner for each state and UT in India. Since 2008 there has been a move to computerize all land records and consolidate them with the Department of Land Resources in the Ministry of Rural Development. Once that effort has reached completion you will be able to find all the data you need at the MRD office in New Delhi.

OT, but let me cite your post -

Not big words. Big numbers. 6% of India's land is owned by Church. Church owns more Indian land than anyone else except GOI. Church pays no tax, and keeps lots of cash to harvest souls. No Hindu Swami has wealth even close to this.

Is that clear enough, in small words?

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1456445

But yes, I am very much aware of the modus operandi of Church organizations ... though where I differ with most on BRF is my view that most Churches are subservient to other (not necessarily Christian) forces, which use not only the Churches, but a wide spectrum of subversive entities.

I am generally in agreement with various other points you are making, except the "chankian Advani" thesis.

[Pratyush]

Dont know how to post tweets, so;

@KanchanGupta: 'Glycerine tears' redefined: Angst on display at TV studios for a person Left-liberal commentariat has reviled for 20 years. about an hour ago

[SaiK]

On a brighter note, his 6 months PM dream could be better than 60 months x 2 terms of being PM (MMS) in a client-server mode.

[Rudradev]

OT, but let me cite your post -

Not big words. Big numbers. 6% of India's land is owned by Church. Church owns more Indian land than anyone else except GOI. Church pays no tax, and keeps lots of cash to harvest souls. No Hindu Swami has wealth even close to this.

Is that clear enough, in small words?

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1456445

Note the bolded. It was in response to Theo, who had asked for small words. I was trying hard not to exceed two syllables per word, or one concept per sentence

[member_20317]

So, pardon me, if I see the recent antics by LKA as an act of 'desh-dhroh' and violating his dharma.

Regards,

Rohit, as I asked before, how exactly will LKA's stand hurt any one but himself?

(is it not clear that he is also settling the PM candidate issue for all to see, including JD(U), no last minute nautanki)

Sanku ji, you cannot be challenged on the Chinese constitution if there is any because you owe china nothing. But you can always be challenged on your own constitution [I respectfully submit hindu(ism/tva/etc)]. The relationship across time and generations is important for this side. This is a clear case of the Bhishm Pitamah taking the side of people he has tied himself to. The battle against Pitamah is a Dharm Sankat. Nobody gets into one with will. Everybody on this side recognizes this hence the utter disgust at this stand of LKA. I too was taken in by the surfeit of resignations in one letter till somebody pointed out LKA has retained the chairmanship of NDA. Apparently this time it is one too many.

What LKA has failed to realize is that he is an elder and then he failed again to realize that he is not the only elder that needs to be taken care of, on this side of eupherates.


Though I can see it how this will only take down Niku for good. But these are coincidences not plans. You are ascribing plans and detailing where mere coincidence and stupidity suffice. If LKA was so intent on controlling/taking down Niku why is he not doing it with the organisation he helped build. For all intents and purpose he is continuing on his unfinished agenda of Jan-chetna yatra (Sitabdiara). Unfinished agenda of taking up the mantle of leadership. A mantle he lost a long time back.

[Yagnasri]

Please read Science Fiction novel Dune – Considered by many as the greatest. Unlike Foundation Series of Asimov it was written at one go and as a whole novel. It is about Politics among others there are many lines – One Baron Horkonan says is reproduced here (not literally)
Let them think that these false attacks are the real and maximum we can do. Let them escape them and let them be confident and comfortable in their false security. Then when they are all feeling secure, someone very close to their heart will betray them fatally and the very fact that such a close person betrayed them itsef will be sufficient to devastate them mortally.

This seems to be what Mafia tried to do to BJP and is clearly failing.

[Sanku]

[But these are coincidences not plans..

ravi_g ji >> I have not believed in coincidences in politics or even in life, for many a thousand years now.

[RajeshA]

But when all is said and done, he did not stand in the way of Modi's elevation to Campaign Chief. He opposed it just enough to show his blackmailers that he was doing their bidding, but not enough to abort it. And finally, when it became clear that Modi had claimed the position fair and square... Advani did the only thing he could, which was to resign.

Rudradev ji,

since yesterday, I too have been thinking on the same lines. My post.

[Rudradev]

Reams of articles are written, thousand words are poured, tens of cartoons are drawn....yet you proudly claim

If these conditions are met, then whatever those articles/words/cartoons are saying must be the truth onlee? Solid viveka-buddhi, I must say!

Advani still has plenty of opportunity to prove the soosai-theorists wrong. He may yet do so.

The point is, he hasn't seized a single one of those opportunities until the present time. In fact he has done not one single thing to prove the "Advani-is-a-total-sellout-Mainovadi-traitor" theorists right... compared to the damage he could have done, given his position. So soosai theory stands more strongly validated than traitor theory, QED.

[SaiK]

sanku maharaj, are you saying out of 1000 years of experience? or is it just a transpose of the problem at hand?

[Pratyush]

Please read Science Fiction novel Dune – Considered by many as the greatest. Unlike Foundation Series of Asimov it was written at one go and as a whole novel. It is about Politics among others there are many lines – One Baron Horkonan says is reproduced here (not literally)
Let them think that these false attacks are the real and maximum we can do. Let them escape them and let them be confident and comfortable in their false security. Then when they are all feeling secure, someone very close to their heart will betray them fatally and the very fact that such a close person betrayed them itsef will be sufficient to devastate them mortally.

This seems to be what Mafia tried to do to BJP and is clearly failing.

What I did not understand in the Novel and I don't understand here is why, were the house harkonan. Willing to use such a chancy strategy. When they were backed by the Padshah and the legions of Sardukar troops.

This is what caused them to fail in the end. With the house Harkonon destroyed by the house Adradies along with the imperium.

Would it not have been advisable to go for the kill in the first instance it self? As the doctor did have enough loyalty to protect Paul and his mother.

[Rudradev]

Because they wanted to control the Spice Mines of Arrakis as well as destroy the Atreides.

[Pratyush]

They could have done both, had they not played the shadow games. As they had sufficient military force to do so. And Paul had not entered into an alliance with the fremmen.

Once that was done it was just a matter of time before he took back Arrakes and destroyed the House Harkonen.

But we are going way off topic with this.

[Hari Seldon]

^^RDji and RajeshA (and yes, yes sankuji as well) have made strong arguments and I'm (despite myself) coming round to their point of view.

LKA may not have been free to play the role of elder statesman he ideally should have played. So he did the next best thing and took himself out of tehgame in a way wherein the forces handling him can no longer use him against NM and the BJP only.

Why US and other western ambys need to make teerth yatras to meet our netas right before polls or other inflexion points bothers me no end. Only...

[member_20317]

[But these are coincidences not plans..

ravi_g ji >> I have not believed in coincidences in politics or even in life, for many a thousand years now.

Bhai ji jo bhi plan kar lejiye, phal to plan kara nahin ja sakta. That is why everybody needs a Plan B.

If you are so confident of a plan behind all this then you have to provide at least a circumstantial evidence in support and at least some hint of a Plan B.

Though again I am in concurrence with view that this should be downplayed taking the que from NM. LKA can only realistically be managed by RSS. It can only rightly be their part of the bargain. And I am rather confident in RSS on this point. Most likely LKA's resignation will not be acted upon at all. Basically PVNR strategy of deciding not to decide, till it becomes irrelevant to decide about.


Rudradev ji thanks for the pick up line. Goes right into my dictionary - "two syllables per word, or one concept per sentence"

[Rudradev]

But when all is said and done, he did not stand in the way of Modi's elevation to Campaign Chief. He opposed it just enough to show his blackmailers that he was doing their bidding, but not enough to abort it. And finally, when it became clear that Modi had claimed the position fair and square... Advani did the only thing he could, which was to resign.

Rudradev ji,

since yesterday, I too have been thinking on the same lines. My post.

AWMTA

[Lilo]

A rare instance of a straight forward opinion from the paid media.

POPULAR CHOICE -The Telegraph

It was an anointment foretold by all save an octogenarian and his acolytes. No one, not even Narendra Modi’s severest critic, disputes the fact of his popularity. From within the sangh parivar, Mr Modi is the only leader who wins election after election. Across India, people who vote for the Bharatiya Janata Party see Mr Modi as the only leader capable of galvanizing the party and of leading it to an electoral triumph in 2014. His victories in Gujarat will be replicated by him all over India, such is the hope of the BJP voters and of most of the BJP workers. The acceptance by the party leadership of Mr Modi as the leader of the election campaign only formalizes the endorsement that he already has from the electorate in Gujarat and from the BJP voters and supporters. There could be no better way of choosing a leader in a democratic polity. It is difficult to comprehend why, till the other day, some of the BJP leaders had problems with this choice, and why, after the event, there is at least one very prominent glum face.

At the heart of Mr Modi’s elevation lies an issue that has cropped up before in Indian politics. It concerns the nature of political parties in India and the question of who constitutes these parties. There is the idea that refuses to go away that a political party is constituted by its organizational structure and its administrative apparatus. This idea not only permeates an entity like the Communist Party of India (Marxist), but is also present in other parties like the BJP, the Congress and others. The organizational structure of a political party — call it by whatever name — is not a constitutional entity. Its power and its writ are wholly extra-constitutional. In terms of the Constitution, only the parliamentary party has validity — in other words, those in the party who have been elected by the people of India. This simple principle is honoured in India only in the breach: witness the power of the politburo in the decision-making process in the CPI(M) and the influence exercised by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh over the BJP. Mr Modi’s nomination as the head of the BJP’s election campaign actually breaks the power of an oligarchic constitutional authority and upholds the preference of the BJP voter. Even Mr Modi’s critics will have to acknowledge the democratic nature of the process. It is to be hoped that Mr Modi will honour the trust a democratic process has bestowed on him.

[Sushupti]

I have better one to describe his antics Don Quixote .

yes, sushupti ji has used it.. He reserves Don Quixote for ABV.. LkA is sancho panza in his model..

Atri Ji, Do you realize how painful it is to turn iconoclast on your own gods? I have the credit of casting a vote to Advani Ji (I am using "Ji" only not to aggravate PitruDosha in my horoscope ) through identity theft.

[Sanku]

ravi_g ji >> I have not believed in coincidences in politics or even in life, for many a thousand years now.

Bhai ji jo bhi plan kar lejiye, phal to plan kara nahin ja sakta. That is why everybody needs a Plan B.

ravi_g, this seems to be plan B. Some plans will work also na.

-------------------------------------------------------------

SaiK-ji; yes it is 10000000000s of years of experience. (metaphorically of course)

[Sanku]

Atri Ji, Do you realize how painful it is to turn iconoclast on your own gods? I have the credit of casting a vote to Advani Ji (I am using "Ji" only not to aggravate PitruDosha in my horoscope ) through identity theft.

That is why Sushupti ji, there are no gods amongst humans, lets not make them, otherwise we go from one extreme to another.

No one is god, LKA, NaMo no one. Let us live with humans and learn to appreciate them for their human strengths and weaknesses.

[Mahendra]

Huh, Tendulkar is God

[Pratyush]

Why Advani may be more upset with the RSS than Modi

What to make of this?

A life long RSS Pracharak is upset with the parent. For What?

Not letting him be the PM. When LKA himself disassociated himself from the PM shim post 2009.

[Pratyush]

Huh, Tendulkar is God

Then its time to throw him out of his heaven.

[Sushupti]

This guy is totally at different level. Where does he gets these novel ideas to make Bharat "Congress Mukt"?

Modi seeks a few gram of iron from each village for Sardar Patel’s statue
http://deshgujarat.com/2013/06/11/modi- ... ls-statue/

[Pratyush]

He is trying to make a Dynasty mukt bharat.

But rest assured, the congoons in the media will start saying that the iron from one or the other village was stolen by modi.

[member_23658]

On a sidenote, In all this tamasha, Rajnath Singh is emerging as a decisive and no-nonsense person. Quite a far cry from a puppet or a compromise figure that one would have thought him to be when he replaced Gadkari. more power to him !